Salk Speakers and class d amp

yetis · « **on:** 27 Aug 2011, 02:10 pm »

Does anyone have experience here. I have been a Pass labs, large heavy, solid state guy. However, space constraints are making me consider some high quality and small class d amps. Anyone have experience here. I was considering kharma mp-150, Rowland 201's and Bel Canto's large mono blocks. I know people are divided over these. I am more interested in people who have used them with Salk speakers. Let me also note, I have owned a tube amp before. It sounded good, but it is too much for me. I have newborn and real want something that doesn't have the increase issue associated with tubes.

Thank You

ratso · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 Aug 2011, 03:46 am »

i am starting to become a believer that power (headroom) is the name of the game. and although i am far from a veggy eating hippy, i am also starting to think that the time is past for amps that make your neighborhood's lights brown out every time you turn it on. class d is a cheap way to get a lot of power that won't give you a heart attack when your e bill comes. BTW they are all truly the same (at least as far as ice power goes). if you want a cool looking box, fine (rowland, bel canto, etc) but you will pay dearly for it. if it was my money i would get a WFS or d-sonic or something cheap. still want it to look good? get someone to make a nicer enclosure for it and still come out way ahead $$ wise. a personal fave:

http://home.comcast.net/~ampbox/

BTW, d-sonic just changed their enclosures and they look a lot better now. and although it isn't stated on their site you can get color anodized faceplates too.

highfilter · « **Reply #2 on:** 29 Aug 2011, 07:17 am »

I am running my Salk SoundScape 10's with a Digital Amplifier Company Cherry Jr [http://www.digitalamp.com/cherryjr.htm] and it's wonderful. Extended highs (not harsh), lovely midrange and great deep controlled bass. Highly recommended if they are in your price range. Great built quality, runs cool and has awesome control across the freq. range.

I find D/A converters to change the sonic presentation of a system more than amps do, but it comes down to how all the components match. Good luck.

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #3 on:** 29 Aug 2011, 10:12 am »

Quote from: yetis on 27 Aug 2011, 02:10 pm

Does anyone have experience here. I have been a Pass labs, large heavy, solid state guy. However, space constraints are making me consider some high quality and small class d amps. Anyone have experience here. I was considering kharma mp-150, Rowland 201's and Bel Canto's large mono blocks. I know people are divided over these. I am more interested in people who have used them with Salk speakers. Let me also note, I have owned a tube amp before. It sounded good, but it is too much for me. I have newborn and real want something that doesn't have the increase issue associated with tubes.

Thank You

The Rowlands are overpriced and the WFS are much better in all 3 freq bands.

JLM · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 Aug 2011, 11:48 am »

Class D amps still benefit from beefy power supplies and not all class D are alike. (I sort of cringe when they're lumped together.) IMO Dusty at Channel Island Audio offers good class D amps (all monoblocks, all use modded Hypex modules-not ICE, and all use big power supplies).

Yes, I'm a fan of having the amp provide a commanding grip on the speakers (plenty of power). Salk speakers are not efficient, so I'd recommend at least 200 wpc.

yetis · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 Aug 2011, 06:14 pm »

Quote from: Big Red Machine on 29 Aug 2011, 10:12 am

The Rowlands are overpriced and the WFS are much better in all 3 freq bands.

Have you heard the Rowlands? New, they seem very expensive! But used and appropriately priced, not as bad. You seem convinced of the WFS. Do you own the WFS?

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #6 on:** 29 Aug 2011, 06:23 pm »

Quote from: yetis on 29 Aug 2011, 06:14 pm

Have you heard the Rowlands? New, they seem very expensive! But used and appropriately priced, not as bad. You seem convinced of the WFS. Do you own the WFS?

Look in my thread of my system changes and you see:

Amplifiers I have owned and had in my room since 2006:

Monarchy SM70 monos
PS Audio GCC500 modified by Underwood
Moscode 401HR
Wyred SX1000 monos
Wyred SX500 monos
Wyred ST250
Dodd 120 monos
BAT VK500
Pass Labs X350.5
Sunfire 600
Rowland 201 monos
Belles 150A Refs as monos
TAD Hibachi monos
Dared VP-20 monos
VTL ST85
Cherry 4800A
Cherry Plus
ATI 602
PS Audio Delta 250 monos
Hafler 9130
Hafler SE240
Hafler XL280
Electrocompaniet AW220
Jolida JD202A
AVA something auditioned
Xindak ? 200 wpc

The Rowlands do not have bass. Great mids and so-so highs.

mojave · « **Reply #7 on:** 29 Aug 2011, 06:26 pm »

I also own the Cherry Jr. and agree with highfilter. I think the bass is exceptional with it.

HT cOz · « **Reply #8 on:** 29 Aug 2011, 06:32 pm »

I'm very excited for the Hypex Ncore amps that are being developed. They could be a game changer. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=95588.0

zybar · « **Reply #9 on:** 29 Aug 2011, 06:32 pm »

I have heard the Rowland 201's, Bel Canto, ARC, CI Audio D-200's, and early versions of the H20 amps on Salk HT3's. Out of that group of Class D amps, my favorite was the D-200's. In fact, I thought the D-200's was very close in performance to the McCormack DNA-500. If you do a search here on AC, you can read about my observations.

However, I thought that the Moscode 401HR was superior to all of the Class D amps on the HT3's. The best amp I heard with the HT3's was the BAT VK-600SE, but that definitely doesn't match with what the OP is looking for.

George

jtwrace · « **Reply #10 on:** 29 Aug 2011, 06:35 pm »

Quote from: zybar on 29 Aug 2011, 06:32 pm

If you do a search here on AC, you can read about my observations.

George

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=28037.0

srb · « **Reply #11 on:** 29 Aug 2011, 06:52 pm »

I'm not sure what the Rowlands and other high-end ICEpower integrators might be modifying, but on the more (relatively) inexpensive amplifiers, W4S seemed to be one of the few that actually added custom input modules to increase input impedance to ~ 60K Ohm instead of the stock 8K Ohm. The rather low input impedance was the reason most technical audio people gave as why the ICEpower high end might be rolled off or higher distortion might be present in some setups.

I think the Dodd tube buffer in the Virtue M5001 ICEBlock performed a similar function.

Steve

yetis · « **Reply #12 on:** 1 Sep 2011, 11:33 pm »

Quote from: Big Red Machine on 29 Aug 2011, 06:23 pm

Look in my thread of my system changes and you see:

Amplifiers I have owned and had in my room since 2006:

Monarchy SM70 monos
PS Audio GCC500 modified by Underwood
Moscode 401HR
Wyred SX1000 monos
Wyred SX500 monos
Wyred ST250
Dodd 120 monos
BAT VK500
Pass Labs X350.5
Sunfire 600
Rowland 201 monos
Belles 150A Refs as monos
TAD Hibachi monos
Dared VP-20 monos
VTL ST85
Cherry 4800A
Cherry Plus
ATI 602
PS Audio Delta 250 monos
Hafler 9130
Hafler SE240
Hafler XL280
Electrocompaniet AW220
Jolida JD202A
AVA something auditioned
Xindak ? 200 wpc

The Rowlands do not have bass. Great mids and so-so highs.

Impressive. I will try a pair of the WFS 500 mono blocks. Are there other updated versions I should wait for? I have a Meridian G55 amp that I am using in the 3-channel bridge mode. So power isn't the issue. I will let you know how it goes.

Thank you

Bill Baker · « **Reply #13 on:** 2 Sep 2011, 01:58 am »

I have run various Class D amplification with the HT2-TL speakers I have here. At the moment, they are being driven by our 250 watt integrated hybrid amplifier with Class D amplification.

The Salks sing beautifully with these amps. As others have mentioned, not all Class D amps are created equal.

yetis · « **Reply #14 on:** 2 Sep 2011, 11:35 am »

Quote from: Bill Baker link=topic=97981.msg985897#msg985897

As others have mentioned, not all Class D amps are created equal.
[/quote

Bill: Thank you for the response. Other then your own - which wouldn't work in my setting - what are the biggest differences? I know that many have the same ICE core, but use different power supplies, etc. Also, I know for instance, the Bel Canto 500 mono blocks are apparently based on a newer version then the 1000's mono's, and seem to have a better reputation. What is your pick within the world class D amps?

Thanks

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #15 on:** 2 Sep 2011, 11:39 am »

The Wyreds were the most neutral of all the "class D's" I tried. They seem to know what they were doing and the amps have grunt, and not just in the mid-range as several of them did for me.

kip_ · « **Reply #16 on:** 2 Sep 2011, 12:11 pm »

Quote from: Big Red Machine on 2 Sep 2011, 11:39 am

The Wyreds were the most neutral of all the "class D's" I tried. They seem to know what they were doing and the amps have grunt, and not just in the mid-range as several of them did for me.

BRM, How would you compare the Wyreds to the Cherry Plus?

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #17 on:** 2 Sep 2011, 01:05 pm »

I was smitten with the Cherry but realized the midrange was hot so that is what was making me attracted to it. I tried it on SoundScapes and it did not fair very well at all. The bass could not keep up and the midrange was clearly tipped up in that system. The BAT VK600 we ran against it smoked it as it should at $10k. I was and still am trying to be ready for SoundScapes so every amp was getting evaluated for that purpose. When that evaluation ended I promptly sold the Cherry and bought a BAT amp.

Given that experience I would go to Wyreds again with no hesitation if I had to have small form factor, cool running, powerhouses. Given others' system synergies the Cherry's are making many folks real happy. But for overall balance in my evolving systems the Wyreds were more consistent and did not exaggerate any frequency to my ears.

barnestn · « **Reply #18 on:** 2 Sep 2011, 01:24 pm »

Quote from: Bill Baker on 2 Sep 2011, 01:58 am

I have run various Class D amplification with the HT2-TL speakers I have here. At the moment, they are being driven by our 250 watt integrated hybrid amplifier with Class D amplification.

The Salks sing beautifully with these amps. As others have mentioned, not all Class D amps are created equal.

Bill, have you determined the price of your integrated yet? Your equipment is stellar and the integrated is quite appealing. Thanks.

Warpdrv · « **Reply #19 on:** 2 Sep 2011, 01:49 pm »

Quote from: Big Red Machine on 2 Sep 2011, 01:05 pm

Given that experience I would go to Wyreds again with no hesitation if I had to have small form factor, cool running, powerhouses. Given others' system synergies the Cherry's are making many folks real happy. But for overall balance in my evolving systems the Wyreds were more consistent and did not exaggerate any frequency to my ears.

What are you running now Big Red...?

I just got the SoundScape SS M7's and am running them on a D-Sonic 5 channel, 3x500 2 x 250.. I've never had an issue with the sonic nature of the ICE modules, I have the big boy Wyred 7 channel for my main rig, and that unit is just as nice..

I may swap out the D-Sonic for a Wyred unit for the input buffer stage mods. I really need a better HT preamp first.....