So long VR-9 Mk1

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JackD201

So long VR-9 Mk1
« on: 19 Aug 2011, 04:39 am »
A Little "Pre-ramble"

"Sepang", is my customized VR-9 SE named so after the BMW color (Sepang Bronze) in which she is clad. She's the pair seen in VSA's website AC link. Sepang came into service on Labor Day of 2008. In that time she has served up countless hours of enjoyment for me, my friends and family. As her time comes to a close, I can think of no better way to thank her for her faithful, flawless service than to send her off with a review three years overdue.

Let me get the requisite boring part out of the way. The VR-9 SE is VSA's second model from the top. It is a 6 way loudspeaker consisting of two modules per side. The top module consists of two ribbon super tweeters, one in front and one rear, a Ring Radiator tweeter and a 7'5" Aerogel midrange driver. Also in the module are the XOs for mids, highs and ambience using V-Cap teflons. The rear panel also sports the individual controls for all three tweeters per side and the WBT Platinum binding post. The lower module has a pair of 8.5" Magnesium mid-woofers acoustically suspended and behind sports a 15" Subwoofer driver, it's 1kW plate amp, and the binding posts. The configuration makes for a loudspeaker that is 94dB sensitive with a nominal impedance of 6ohms and a frequency response of 16Hz to 100kHz +/- 3dB without boost settings. At full boost sensitivity climbs to 96dB most of the gains being in the bass.

Semi-active loudspeakers were not in Vogue 3 years ago, neither was having level controls. The prevailing wisdom at the time was that controls were a bad thing. Fast forward a few years and almost all of the big guns now come with controls either in the form of attenuators or resistor patch bays. The last couple of years we also finally saw the acceptance of subwoofers. Both are features the VR-9s had when they were launched in 2006. Billed as gadgety or gimmicky by many at the time, the design has not just stood the test of time but appears to have made the time irrelevant.

So what makes for a loudspeaker stand the test of time aside from unimpeachable specs? Mainly two things, two opposite things. One would be if a loudspeaker had a particular "voice" or color that is so likable and the other if a loudspeaker has so little of a voice of its own. The VR-9s are the latter. It makes them maddeningly difficult to review and that's the reason I'm only doing it now. The impressions are consistent however for all that have come by the old and new Lairs and have witnessed the component variations I often employ. Pretty much all things being constant, I like to play with different cartridges and different amplifiers. Depending on what's in front of it the VR-9s might appear gorgeously colored or downright Wagnerian and violent. The joy of having such a chameleon is that you can choose anything in between the two extremes. The loudspeaker, especially with this kind of extension and resolution is never really the limiting factor.

"Transported"

This is a term that seems to pop up when VRs are mentioned. VR is short for virtual reality so taking on a "you are there" as opposed to the "musicians are in my room" perspective was one decided by Albert from the get go. The realistic recreation of space in VR speakers, while not a coloration, is a huge part of what would be a "house sound". So, it is no surprise that that too is the reaction of many non-audiophiles upon exposure to a VR system that is firing on all cylinders. The soundstage is not the stereotypical wide and deep with performers laid out behind the speaker plane. It can be when that's what is on the recording like playing Allison Krauss and Union Station singing Baby, Now That I've Found You (Live). What's eerie is when the applause comes in and then suddenly the applause seems to be coming from everywhere. From track to track the stage will morph to what's on the recording. Personally this is something very satisfying for me since coming from a media family, appreciation of production values comes very high on my list of priorities. Albert goes to great lengths to explain how he achieves this through his G.A.I.N. white paper available on the Von Schweikert website for those interested in the "how" you can go to the site, click on ABOUT and then read of on the loudspeaker design. You'll also catch a pic of Keith's room and his DB-99s.

Maybe it's a Gen X thing. For all our purported angst in our younger years, we live to work and work to party. That escapist thing must have spilled over to the aesthetic, echoing the same escapist tendencies of our older bros who had their share of angst growing up in the culturally tumultuous late 60s and early 70s while we got ours from the straight jacketed 80s and early 90s. In any case there is this intense pleasure only being transported can bring that a more voyeuristic view simply can't. It's that feeling of immersion. While localization is extremely stable in origin the musical events pulsate and deliver the vibrations in a way that is not just audible but is tactile not just in the bass but in the midrange as well. While a voyeuristic system makes it easy to visualize the goings on in one's mind, an immersive one does that and more. It lets you FEEL it. The way events pulsates is what makes the music seem to take a life of its own with notes spontaneously appearing in three dimensional space. The expanded stage, sometimes referred to as a walk in soundstage, and the way it evenly pressurizes a room via phase coherence vis a vis amplitude that spells the difference between being "transported" as opposed to being outside looking in. As anything, this is a matter of taste. The loads of sensory inputs can be overwhelming for some at first and take a few minutes to get accustomed to. I remember my first exposure vividly. My reaction was involuntary giggling. Not very manly I know!

In any case, that's what VRs do and as you go up the ladder you get that little bit more of everything. Going up the totem pole thankfully is not so much about quality as all models are engineered without any intentional dumbing down to meet a price point but rather, even more true today, about having the proper scale for differently sized rooms.

Transparency

This is a term I like a whole lot more than neutral but only because of semantics. Neutral has taken on a negative connotation in audio land and has become synonymous with analytical or bleached. No loudspeaker is truly neutral or transparent. All things are relative. Like I said earlier getting a handle on just how transparent a loudspeaker or any other piece of equipment is is not about how they sound at the moment but how different they sound with every change upstream. Not so easy with sources since all you can really change is the recordings but still tough for loudspeakers despite the fact that everything except the room interactions comes before it. Some self discipline is required here because one must change only one variable at a time lest something random pollute the evaluation. It also takes a lot of time because one needs to seriously get to know what each brings to the table. Here we are three years, two rooms, countless system configurations and 10lbs more later. So given the proper room for them just how sensitive to change is the VR-9 SE?

The wildest I've swung the pendulum using in-house gear is from using one pair of Lamm's ML1.1 tubed push pull monoblocks (90 wpc) to it's current default of using one pair of M1.2 Reference Hybrids (110 wpc Pure Class A Zero NFB) for the Mids and Treble and one pair of M2.2 Hybrid (220 wpc Class A/AB Zero NFB). In between I've tried each amp on its own as well as the tubed one on top and the class A below. In every configuration you wouldn't guess that they were the same speakers. In terms of tonality, transient response, extension and ultimately presentation, as said earlier I've gone from achingly pretty to balls to the wall crazy. I have since throttled back quite a bit and found my flavor of choice thanks to some tweakage in the noise and vibration control departments.

To a lesser but no less profound degree comes the differences between cartridges. While the amp rolling deals with macro dynamics for the most part, the carts show the micro. I'm talking about nuances at this point and what each cart in the arsenal (whose own thread needs some serious updating by the way, I'll make a mental note of that) brings to the table. Pun intended. In a system set up to be transparent (lots of gain matching required folks) changes between carts can be quite subtle but in ways musically significant. Throw away the notion that Koetsus are rolled off for example. The Jade Platinum is extended and has great drive but what is striking is the emphasis on middle register harmonics. It's intoxicating for Cellos and vocals for sure but also for electric bass guitars. The XV-1t has it's penchant for emphasizing violins and air. The Ortofon A90 it's unflappable balance that even I mistook for boring at first until serious set up time would reveal just how much it's own sound can be manipulated.

Transparency can be a curse or a gift. In a quiet room you will hear a lot more than you thought possible. Unfortunately that means the good and the bad. For one year I struggled before I finally got things right. The final piece aside from taking a few days recovering from dental surgery with nothing to do but put 120% effort into tuning the heck out of my system? Power Cords. Who would have thunk it?

Happiness

So it has come to pass. 20 years of dreaming and for the first time I can say I really am satisfied in every respect with my system, I feel I have done all I humanly could to make the 9s reach her full potential. How Ironic as by the end of the month this pair of VR-9 SEs will be no more.

The VR-9 SE meets her maker

The VR-9 SE is no more. Von Schweikert Audio has come out with the VR-9 SE Mk.2. While the PHL models were modded and became the basis of the first Mk.2 iteration, availability of better parts, drivers, internal wiring and internal damping construction methods have made a more extreme makeover possible.

On Aug.24, 2011, Sepang will literally meet her maker when Alber Von Schweikert arrives in Manila with his son Damon for a brief roadshow but more importantly to upgrade her and her Manila based siblings (her twin VR-9s and a pair of 11s). After which she and her kin will emerge with capabilities that once again will test my commitment. I get to keep her old pieces for keep sakes of three happy years of music listening and system fiddling.

The Queen is dead. God save the Queen!       :thumb:

es347

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Re: So long VR-9 Mk1
« Reply #1 on: 19 Aug 2011, 01:48 pm »
20 years of dreaming and for the first time I can say I really am satisfied in every respect with my system...  So Jack, that's it...no more fiddling, no more swapping of equipment, no more tweaking??  :scratch:  I'm going to keep this quote handy and cut-and-paste it in replies to your future messages  :lol:  Face it bro, when you get the MkIIs in your new room, a whole new era of fiddling, if nothing else, will be ushered in.

BTW when Albert and Damon open up the patient, demand that they scrub and wear rubber gloves  8)

KJ

Re: So long VR-9 Mk1
« Reply #2 on: 19 Aug 2011, 02:25 pm »
Great write up.  Congrats on a most enjoyable journey.

violetmachan

Re: So long VR-9 Mk1
« Reply #3 on: 19 Aug 2011, 08:53 pm »
Chief ewok
Did not realise you take your sound duties so seriously.......must say very eloquent big chief........the vr 9se in it's original state was the best I have heard......funny it took just a minute in albert/manny's place to know that they were very special ie vr 9 se......does the upgrade include change in the midrange drivers?
Will albert ever do a trip to UK.....happy to include a all paid........real jurassic entertainment which include a assisted pub crawl followed by the best fish and chips in this side of the world......... if he plans to visit  the Dorset coast for an  one-off signature upgrade for the  vr 7se along with a custom tweak to match the room!!

jimdgoulding

Re: So long VR-9 Mk1
« Reply #4 on: 19 Aug 2011, 09:58 pm »
Violet-  Man o man, looking at your room, well, I'm breathless and haven't even heard anything.  Just the sheer force of a couple of albums I'm thinking of.

JackD201

Re: So long VR-9 Mk1
« Reply #5 on: 20 Aug 2011, 01:12 am »
Hehehe Darth Sam. Here's the story of how I lucked out on the overseas service.

Some years ago, a purchase of a VR-11 came with a commitment that Albert would come himself. When Jim orderer his 11s, Albert couldn't make the long trip for health reasons. This is an important point that I'll get back to. It turned out I was no slouch when it comes to setting up systems (we knew that, of course  :lol: :lol: :lol:), so Albert wasn't made to make good on it. Fast forward a few years and Manny's showroom pair gets the full treatment. It's nice to be an hour away from VSA HQ!

After hearing first hand the difference between the 5 SE, which is a supertweeter and subless 9 SE, and the VR-5 Anniversary I knew I was in BIG trouble. When Jim heard them he knew he was too. So we did the math. First the math on the upgrade price. I know what OEM prices are for most of the parts involved as my partner Keith helps a lot of our DIYers source components for their projects at lower costs by pooling them into group buys. It turns out that the parts costs and the labor costs pointed at VSA making a smallish profit (I est. at 10 to 15%) on every upgrade package so was very fair sound be damned. The biggest cost is in the development costs which is from 25k to 30k but THAT cost is sunk into the new production units and apparently if added at all to upgrades is a tiny percentage that would be part of the 10 to 15%. Next we did the math of re-packing, hauling and shipping not one pair of VR-9s but TWO pairs and a pair of VR-11s to and from Manila to Riverside. The shipping itself was almost the cost of two round trip tickets. Hiring professional movers/packers as well as boom trucks for pick up and re-delivery to different locations tipped the scales in favor of flying in VSA personnel and shipping in the parts. Including paying for their hours lost travelling/not building anything at the factory.

Here was the catch. The VR-9 Mk.2s had been done so Damon or one of his senior production crew could do it. It's just a matter of installation. The VR-11s however have not been done yet and that requires Albert himself. Time to call in the VR-11 commitment :thumb: and that's exactly what Jim did. Apparently it wasn't hard because Albert didn't need much convincing. We all just jumped straight into the logistics. It really works well for them because Jim gets his upgrade and Albert gets to build, voice, measure and listen to the upgrade package in a truly world class listening environment.  I have not seen a listening room any place else in the world that compares as this room was built specifically for 8 foot behemoths to breath freely. Truly world class electronics, sources and software too. In that music room alone Albert will have access to VAC 450 Statements, VTL Sigfrieds for tubes and Lamm M1.2 and M2.2s for Solid State. It's even got an EERA Tentation which is now Albert's digital reference aside from a full Emmlabs CDSD-Switchman 3- DAC 6 stack.

Jim is the very hands on President and Chief Operating Officer of the country's top TV and Radio network so he knows his technology and not just his music. He is notorious for being a lurker though and to date has made exactly ZERO posts.  :evil: :evil: :evil: His best audio credential however is being my older brother who got me in this hobby in the first place :lol: :lol: :lol: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: The kid brother gets a free pass here. I get my 9s upgraded since Albert and Damon will already be here anyway. Awesome!

It's taken months to set this all up but I figured that it was time since you guys would hear about it anyway. The crates of parts and tools have cleared customs and are now just awaiting Albert and Damon. I haven't seen the gents for 3 years so catching up will be nice. Albert also wants to meet the local VSA faithful so I have arranged for that as well.

After all this, the blueprints for the VR-11 Mk.2s will be complete so we can expect them to hit the market. I just thought of something funny. When the 9s went from Mk1 to Mk2, VSA didn't have to change the pic on the website because it was and still is Manny's pair. Same thing with the VR-11s as the ones featured are Jim's pair.

So folks I am just the recipient of a whole lot of serendipity. Without the volume of work to be done, the distance, the timing for the need of a new VR-11 to balance out the dollars and cents, my 9s would be on a boat to California right now.

I would like to thank Albert profusely for even accepting our requests to come over. It surely isn't expected of him to do so and I know of no other designer whose flown out this far to not just tune but actually BUILD up a new loudspeaker.

I'm currently dry aging 7 kilos of USDA Prime for a mean Prime Rib. I hope they bring their statins  :lol: :lol: :lol:

JackD201

Re: So long VR-9 Mk1
« Reply #6 on: 20 Aug 2011, 01:29 am »
20 years of dreaming and for the first time I can say I really am satisfied in every respect with my system...  So Jack, that's it...no more fiddling, no more swapping of equipment, no more tweaking??  :scratch:  I'm going to keep this quote handy and cut-and-paste it in replies to your future messages  :lol:  Face it bro, when you get the MkIIs in your new room, a whole new era of fiddling, if nothing else, will be ushered in.

BTW when Albert and Damon open up the patient, demand that they scrub and wear rubber gloves  8)

I'll be tweaking for sure! Getting things just right always takes me lots and lots of listening. I figure that if I throw myself at it, two or three weeks should be good since I've already sorted out the greater majority of the niggling noise problems upstream. All parts have been pre-cooked and the mid pre-broken in too. I just have to wait for the glue to dry and it's of to the races.

JackD201

Re: So long VR-9 Mk1
« Reply #7 on: 20 Aug 2011, 01:29 am »
Great write up.  Congrats on a most enjoyable journey.

Thanks KJ!  :thumb:

Holli82

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Re: So long VR-9 Mk1
« Reply #8 on: 20 Aug 2011, 01:40 am »
I have VR-9's as well.  This is the most satisfying piece of equipment I have ever bought.  Can't wait to hear your impressions of the MK2. 

Bill Baker

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Re: So long VR-9 Mk1
« Reply #9 on: 20 Aug 2011, 02:00 am »
I must hear these 9s and 11s someday. Maybe he can send me a pair of 11's to play with for a little while. If not, the 9's will do :thumb: . Speaking with Albert earlier this evening about RMAF, he mention he was getting ready for the trip next week.

So Jack, how do you like those Von Schweikert speakers :scratch:

JackD201

Re: So long VR-9 Mk1
« Reply #10 on: 20 Aug 2011, 02:16 am »
Funny that you should ask Bill. There was a time I was having problems with VSA's THEN sales and marketing director. It was so bad I was at CES thinking of looking at alternatives. After a pretty exhaustive search, I didn't hear anything that I liked more at the same price or even a bit more. One came close but I noticed that the speaker needed monster amplifiers to get bass the VR5 Anniversaries were dishing out with Audiospace 211s.

Good thing the guy I couldn't work with was shown the door. I guess I wasn't the only one he was rubbing the wrong way. I never had any problems working with anybody else at VSA.

The speakers are okay I guess  :lol: :lol: :lol:

spab

Re: So long VR-9 Mk1
« Reply #11 on: 20 Aug 2011, 02:21 am »
Hey Jack,
My name is Bernie and I recently made a trip to Gavin’s – we both own the VR 5 Anniversaries. Gavin wrote about our experience in a very recent thread. We journeyed to the local hi-fi shop in Indianapolis where we heard a 150K system with Magico Q5 speakers. What you masterfully wrote in the section titled “transported” is precisely what we spoke about most. Namely, what we heard in the 150k system with the Magico’s was ultimately the typical hi-fi sound. You described it as “stereotypical wide and deep with performers laid out behind the speaker plane.” I further commented that in this type of presentation more often than not it sounds as if everything is emanating from the same depth or the same plane. Upon returning to Gavin’s and firing up his awesome system using the same recordings, the magic of Virtual Reality was immediately apparent. Gavin and I quickly agreed that Albert’s speakers simply transcend that traditional hi-fi sound. It’s a new paradigm with his speakers. You have brilliantly described this in the “transported” section. Well Done!    :thumb:

Bill, I grew up in Vestal -- went to middle school over in Endicott -- moved from that area in 1980 when I was 16. Is Nirchi's Pizza still around?
   

JackD201

Re: So long VR-9 Mk1
« Reply #12 on: 20 Aug 2011, 02:34 am »
Thank you very much for the kind words Bernie  :D I know quite a few folks that like Gavin and myself went from planars to VSAs. No surprise really since this "transported" thing is something good planars do very well. I missed the jump of dynamic speakers though and was worn down by having a smallish sweet spot.

For my tastes anyway, VRs strike the right balance between space and natural percussive force.

The downside remains a break-in period that can feel excruciatingly long and positioning where millimeters can make the difference between good and fantastic. Locking in the two channels takes some time. The super cardiod polar pattern is unusual. Someone coming from non VR speakers using formerly tried and true set up techniques usually get stuck visually with what looks right but is usually not yet locked in. You get what you put in though.

Bill Baker

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Re: So long VR-9 Mk1
« Reply #13 on: 20 Aug 2011, 02:36 am »
Quote
Bill, I grew up in Vestal -- went to middle school over in Endicott -- moved from that area in 1980 when I was 16. Is Nirchi's Pizza still around?

 Just ordered a sheet from Nirchi's today. Half with tomato & bacon, half regular "red". Endicott is my home town. Came back here in 1982 to start highschool after traveling around the world. Dad was a Navy officer. Would like to hear more about who you might know in the area. Feel free to PM me as not to sidetrack this thread.

es347

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Re: So long VR-9 Mk1
« Reply #14 on: 20 Aug 2011, 02:25 pm »
This thread is destined to get more hits than Pete Rose......than the Beatles.....than Robert Downey Jr.  :lol:

JackD201

Re: So long VR-9 Mk1
« Reply #15 on: 22 Aug 2011, 07:16 am »
I have VR-9's as well.  This is the most satisfying piece of equipment I have ever bought.  Can't wait to hear your impressions of the MK2.

I'll be sure to give a full report once things have settled in Holli. I want to be dead sure that when I do, I'll be way past the "teenager with a new crush" stage. The Big Guy up above knows I'm not immune to that.

So how many active 9 users are here on the forum? So far I only count you, me and Jack B.

JackD201

Re: So long VR-9 Mk1
« Reply #16 on: 22 Aug 2011, 07:17 am »
This thread is destined to get more hits than Pete Rose......than the Beatles.....than Robert Downey Jr.  :lol:

I know you were tempted to say "Charlie Sheen's wives" instead of Robert Downey Jr.  :lol: :lol: :lol:

es347

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Re: So long VR-9 Mk1
« Reply #17 on: 22 Aug 2011, 01:01 pm »
..or Anthony Weiner's twitter account  :?

disco

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Re: So long VR-9 Mk1
« Reply #18 on: 22 Aug 2011, 10:18 pm »
Oooh, ooh, Mr Carter  :wave: I have 9's...

es347

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Re: So long VR-9 Mk1
« Reply #19 on: 22 Aug 2011, 11:09 pm »
.."welcome back"....Scott   :lol: