[neekomax]

I'm wondering if I'm missing out on something.

I stream my audio from either my Macbook Pro and G4 Mac Mini to both an Apple TV (main system) and/or an Airport Express (in the bedroom). I can control either computer's iTunes from Remote for iPhone. I can turn different speakers on and off this way. The synergy between devices is great, everything always works, the sound is good, and the whole system cost about $220 (That's for the ATV and AXP).

Then I enter this world where folks seem to mostly have Squeezeboxes, which add a layer of complexity (software) and added expense, or even dedicated players like the Bryson BDP-1, which require you to transfer files manually to them before playback is possible, as far as I can tell. Sonos is another that seems to be a bit more complex and costly for similar results.

My question is why? If you're using these or others, what are the features, whether of convenience or quality, that have drawn you to them. Perhaps for PC users, a Squeezebox system is the least expensive anyway (does Airtunes work for Windows?)?

I'm not asking to be cheeky or say that my system is the best, I'm just curious about what else is out there, and see what people like and don't like about these different approaches.

Muchas gracias!

[eclein]

I have windows equipment and I'm not not super tech savy so for me I got a Squeezebox DUET and hooked it up, setup and done, I can access all my music through ipod or android device, I can even playback my entire music library through my ipod touch with the ipeng extension software who's name I forget right now....it was cheapest way for me, DUET receiver on ebay=$100, ipeng on app store=$10

[skunark]

I would go do a demo or better yet see if you can do a home demo.

Since the ATV is just $99 I think everyone should have one, it's great for airplay, netflix, video rentals, music and even whole house audio solution.      If you are into hi-rez, the ATV is out, if you have FLAC you have to convert the files, if you don't have an iPhone/iPod touch, the little remote is annoying with large libraries.   

I also have the Bryston BDP-1, and to compare the playback and ease of use (but excluding setup), both are simple to use with a 'remote" app but the ATV optical output just doesn't even keep up with the Bryston BDP-1 sonically.   Both are connected to the BDA-1, AES and BNC for the BDP-1 and Optical for the ATV.   

[neekomax]

I have windows equipment and I'm not not super tech savy so for me I got a Squeezebox DUET and hooked it up, setup and done, I can access all my music through ipod or android device, I can even playback my entire music library through my ipod touch with the ipeng extension software who's name I forget right now....it was cheapest way for me, DUET receiver on ebay=$100, ipeng on app store=$10

Fair enough. Wasn't sure if Windows iTunes did Airplay, apparently not?

[neekomax]

I would go do a demo or better yet see if you can do a home demo.

Were you able to do a home demo through a dealer or Bryson directly?

Since the ATV is just $99 I think everyone should have one, it's great for airplay, netflix, video rentals, music and even whole house audio solution.      If you are into hi-rez, the ATV is out, if you have FLAC you have to convert the files, if you don't have an iPhone/iPod touch, the little remote is annoying with large libraries.

Agreed that the ATV remote is lame, I use my universal remote for the video functions and my iPhone to browse and play music. My only hi-rez music is SACD, for which I have a player. 

I also have the Bryston BDP-1, and to compare the playback and ease of use (but excluding setup), both are simple to use with a 'remote" app but the ATV optical output just doesn't even keep up with the Bryston BDP-1 sonically.   Both are connected to the BDA-1, AES and BNC for the BDP-1 and Optical for the ATV.

Do you think that the BDP-1 sounds better than the ATV playing 16/44.1 files?

[skunark]

Were you able to do a home demo through a dealer or Bryson directly?

You can do a home demo through a dealer if they have one in stock..  Normally just need a credit card for a deposit.

Do you think that the BDP-1 sounds better than the ATV playing 16/44.1 files?

Having both connected to the BDA, the BDP-1 is in a different class.   What easily stood out with the BDP-1 was just how tight the bass was and it just seemed clearer overall.   The ATV sounds good still through the BDA and I haven't compared the new ATV firmware yet as there are some updates to the digital output software.

[richidoo]

They offered remote control, half decent DAC, internet radio and network streaming of digital music collection together in one cheap box with easy setup. The appeal of a media streaming appliance is lower now with the prevalence of cheap silent PCs, NASs, inexpensive jitter eliminating DACs and great media player software, none of which were available when the appliances first appeared. For people who don't want the complexity of true computer audio, the streamers still serve a valuable purpose. I still prefer Sonos to a full music computer because I don't want to deal with software problems when I rather listen to music. But I want to run linear phase crossovers and room correction which will require moving to full computer based system pretty soon. When Squeezebox was very popular in 2005 the only way to get linear phase crossover filters and digital room correction was Tact or similar devices.

[srb]

Windows iTunes does incorporate AirPlay.  As previously mentioned there is a resolution limit of 16/48 with both the ATV and APX, and their optical outputs aren't quite as good quality as most computers' coaxial, optical, USB or FireWire outputs.  This is where some might choose to use a Squeezebox instead, to gain 24/96 capability as well as a bit better quality digital output for wireless streaming.
 
I use a PC with an S/PDIF coaxial hard wired output to my main system, and three Airport Express for wireless streaming to other room locations.  I don't expect the same quality for those, but it is pretty decent for casual listening.
 
I use J. River Media Center (I believe PC only) for critical listening over iTunes mostly due to it being able to use the Windows WASAPI driver.  J. River is also far advanced over iTunes for playlist manipulation and overall customization.
 
Airfoil is required to use AirPlay with J. River, but it does not work using the WASAPI driver on the local computer, so rather than change the driver back and forth from Direct Sound (to use Airfoil/AirPlay) and WASAPI, I also use iTunes as well.  I import the files into the iTunes library, and J. River "watches" the iTunes folder structure.
 
If I had a Mac, I would probably use the Pure Music add-in program for iTunes which uses the iTunes database for management but substitutes its own playback engine for improved quality playback, memory mode and FLAC capability.
 
I'm sure I would like the sound quality of the Bryston BDP-1, but at this point I am not willing to sacrifice the advanced interface and multi-room wireless streaming that I currently enjoy.
 
Steve

[dwk]

Maybe this wasn't intended to be glib, but it seems to me it basically boils down to "why doesn't everyone just buy into the Mac ecosystem". I'm originally a Linux guy, although I've mostly migrated to Win at this point, and so the Squeezebox was something of a no-brainer and it never occurred to me to consider a Mac-based system.
- server runs on an existing Linux file server
- supports FLAC
- runs from an external library that is basically just a directory structure
- remotely accessible via basically any device, or directly via remote control.

In terms of playback features, we use them in a few different ways
- straightforward album playback
- more or less full-library random play (the ability to exclude genres is a savior)
- Squeezebox Boom as our only alarm clock
- streaming XM Radio
- whole-house player synchronization (3 players)
- SB Touch as one of the sources into my 'high end' rig

So, IMHO it's a great setup. Unless the server doesn't come back up after an extended power outage, it's basically zero maintenance. Plays everything we have aside from SACD. Plays in any room in the house in any manner we choose, and is high enough quality to serve as the basis for a high-end setup, and does it all without imposing any restrictions on my music library.  Total investment for the 3 squeezeboxes was probably $600, but then I didn't have to buy a Mac so it's still cheaper in the end

[neekomax]

Maybe this wasn't intended to be glib, but it seems to me it basically boils down to "why doesn't everyone just buy into the Mac ecosystem". I'm originally a Linux guy, although I've mostly migrated to Win at this point, and so the Squeezebox was something of a no-brainer and it never occurred to me to consider a Mac-based system.
- server runs on an existing Linux file server
- supports FLAC
- runs from an external library that is basically just a directory structure
- remotely accessible via basically any device, or directly via remote control.

In terms of playback features, we use them in a few different ways
- straightforward album playback
- more or less full-library random play (the ability to exclude genres is a savior)
- Squeezebox Boom as our only alarm clock
- streaming XM Radio
- whole-house player synchronization (3 players)
- SB Touch as one of the sources into my 'high end' rig

So, IMHO it's a great setup. Unless the server doesn't come back up after an extended power outage, it's basically zero maintenance. Plays everything we have aside from SACD. Plays in any room in the house in any manner we choose, and is high enough quality to serve as the basis for a high-end setup, and does it all without imposing any restrictions on my music library.  Total investment for the 3 squeezeboxes was probably $600, but then I didn't have to buy a Mac so it's still cheaper in the end

Certainly wasn't asserting that a Mac based system is superior or that all others are invalid, but I would have thought that the diplomatic tone of the post itself made my intention clear, to wit; I have no experience with squeezebox or others, hence wanted to know what these offer without having to invest/revamp my system myself to find out. The title of the thread was just cheeky enough (I hope) to get people to read and respond.

So thanks, that helps. 

[Phil A]

A bunch of reasons.  I have an outboard DAC in the main system.  It allows me an easy to use interface and I can get up to 24/96 audio decoded through the DAC.  The DAC has USB but it does not support hi-rez audio resolutions.  I don't add any noise from a computer system.  It is small and can sit there and can easily navigate with a remote and have internet radio (like a couple of 320kps stations) that is easy to get to.  I even invested in an upgraded power supply.

[totoro]

Certainly wasn't asserting that a Mac based system is superior or that all others are invalid, but I would have thought that the diplomatic tone of the post itself made my intention clear, to wit; I have no experience with squeezebox or others, hence wanted to know what these offer without having to invest/revamp my system myself to find out. The title of the thread was just cheeky enough (I hope) to get people to read and respond.

So thanks, that helps. 

If what you have works for you, then there probably isn't much point in switching.

For my uses, I didn't want to use a computer in the living room, I want to be able to store my music in an open format (flac), I want to run whatever server stuff I need to on a linux box, and I want to be able to use my ipad as a remote and a player with headphones.

Squeezebox and iPeng meet these desires quite well.

[dwk]

Certainly wasn't asserting that a Mac based system is superior or that all others are invalid, but I would have thought that the diplomatic tone of the post itself made my intention clear,

No, I understand that you weren't being dismissive, but my point was that if you take a step back and think about it the ATV or the AXP are *acting* as digital players, and so your question becomes in effect "why would you need a digital player *other than* an ATV/AXP".  From my outsiders perspective, that version of the question has an obvious answer, which is that you don't want to buy into the full Apple stack.

Anyway, I love our squeezeboxes, and even more importantly/remarkably my wife loves our squeezeboxes. By far the most important pieces of gear I have due to how they enable music to become an automatic part of most of our time at home.

[neekomax]

No, I understand that you weren't being dismissive, but my point was that if you take a step back and think about it the ATV or the AXP are *acting* as digital players, and so your question becomes in effect "why would you need a digital player *other than* an ATV/AXP".  From my outsiders perspective, that version of the question has an obvious answer, which is that you don't want to buy into the full Apple stack.

Point taken. I sort of was asking that question, as in 'why did you choose that gear in particular'? Should have thought about how I was phrasing the title. Live and learn.

Anyway, I love our squeezeboxes, and even more importantly/remarkably my wife loves our squeezeboxes. By far the most important pieces of gear I have due to how they enable music to become an automatic part of most of our time at home.

I actually feel the same way about my Mac/Airtunes setup. Seems so intuitive as a system that I was wondering what could be better.. Glad you're enjoying.

Speaking of 'better'... as far as SQ goes, how is the DAC in the squeezebox? Or do you use an external DAC? 

[zacster]

I bought the Oppo 93 3D BD player after I bought my 3D TV.  What I didn't know I was getting, because it just wasn't on my radar, was a DLNA device.  After reading on the AVSForums about it, I gave it a try and it worked and it only cost me $20 to implement.  I have hi-res 24/192 streaming, Hi-def 1080p video, an expandable hard drive capacity and no wires.  My 5 year old iMac acts as the server, and the $20 was for Twonky.  I had also just upgraded my wireless to 300mbps 5ghz when my old router died.  There's 1tb hanging off this old iMac, which is still used as my everyday house computer. 

The bottom line though is I spent all of $20 on top of what I already had for other purposes and have a full wireless media system, with the ultimate irony being that the amp and pre-amp are tube based with 1950s technology.

[neekomax]

I bought the Oppo 93 3D BD player after I bought my 3D TV.  What I didn't know I was getting, because it just wasn't on my radar, was a DLNA device.  After reading on the AVSForums about it, I gave it a try and it worked and it only cost me $20 to implement.  I have hi-res 24/192 streaming, Hi-def 1080p video, an expandable hard drive capacity and no wires.  My 5 year old iMac acts as the server, and the $20 was for Twonky.  I had also just upgraded my wireless to 300mbps 5ghz when my old router died.  There's 1tb hanging off this old iMac, which is still used as my everyday house computer. 

The bottom line though is I spent all of $20 on top of what I already had for other purposes and have a full wireless media system, with the ultimate irony being that the amp and pre-amp are tube based with 1950s technology.

Nice one! The Oppo 93 looks like a great piece of kit. I kinda want one. Are you outputting your audio via analog out from the Oppo (using its DAC) or are you going digital out to an external DAC?

I didn't know about Twonky. How do you like it (GUI, user experience, ease of setup, etc.)? 

[kingdeezie]

I'm wondering if I'm missing out on something.

I stream my audio from either my Macbook Pro and G4 Mac Mini to both an Apple TV (main system) and/or an Airport Express (in the bedroom). I can control either computer's iTunes from Remote for iPhone. I can turn different speakers on and off this way. The synergy between devices is great, everything always works, the sound is good, and the whole system cost about $220 (That's for the ATV and AXP).

Then I enter this world where folks seem to mostly have Squeezeboxes, which add a layer of complexity (software) and added expense, or even dedicated players like the Bryson BDP-1, which require you to transfer files manually to them before playback is possible, as far as I can tell. Sonos is another that seems to be a bit more complex and costly for similar results.

My question is why? If you're using these or others, what are the features, whether of convenience or quality, that have drawn you to them. Perhaps for PC users, a Squeezebox system is the least expensive anyway (does Airtunes work for Windows?)?

I'm not asking to be cheeky or say that my system is the best, I'm just curious about what else is out there, and see what people like and don't like about these different approaches.

Muchas gracias!

It depends on your expectations really. The toslink out of the Apple TV, Macbook, Mac Mini, etc, etc, etc is pretty poor and doesn't provide the best SQ out to an external DAC.

The analog outs of some of these devices is worse.

SB, Sonos, Linn, Perfect Wave Bridge, Bryston, etc, etc provide noticibaly better sound quality through their digital outputs.

It depends on your system and your expectations.

I had an Apple TV toslink out to the Perfect Wave DAC and it was terrible compared to the bridge. The soundstage was shallow and narrow, the highs were grungy, the midrange was brittle and thinned out, and there was smearing of detail.

For me the ATV was not suitable even as just a transport.

USB out of computers is getting popular, but the USB implementation into your DAC becomes critical.

There are multiple ways to skin a cat, and if the ATV works in your system great!

The other options are out there for those that aren't satisfied with the SQ out of some of the particular things you are using.

[neekomax]

It depends on your expectations really. The toslink out of the Apple TV, Macbook, Mac Mini, etc, etc, etc is pretty poor and doesn't provide the best SQ out to an external DAC.

The analog outs of some of these devices is worse.

SB, Sonos, Linn, Perfect Wave Bridge, Bryston, etc, etc provide noticibaly better sound quality through their digital outputs.

It depends on your system and your expectations.

I had an Apple TV toslink out to the Perfect Wave DAC and it was terrible compared to the bridge. The soundstage was shallow and narrow, the highs were grungy, the midrange was brittle and thinned out, and there was smearing of detail.

For me the ATV was not suitable even as just a transport.

USB out of computers is getting popular, but the USB implementation into your DAC becomes critical.

There are multiple ways to skin a cat, and if the ATV works in your system great!

The other options are out there for those that aren't satisfied with the SQ out of some of the particular things you are using.

So what did you replace your ATV with? Wired connection? And how is it technically possible for the transport of digital data via Toslink to be better or worse in terms of SQ? Doesn't that all happen at the source and DAC?

[Daverz]

The most important Squeezebox "feature" for me is the third-party plugin "ecosystem".  I depend on Erland's Custom Scan and Custom Browse to make my library browsable.

When I started out thinking about digital playback, I originally intended to roll my own: get a very small, fanless Linux box to feed the stereo and use an open source music streaming software to serve music from another room.  A USB to SPDIF  converter would have to be added as well.  Then one of the crustiest old guys in the local Linux UG suggested I just get a Squeezebox, which did the same thing and was much simpler.  That's when I got a Duet.   I upgraded to the Touch for 96/24 output.

If someone made a Linux box similar to the Touch (I don't need the display) with 96/24 SPDIF output, it still might be worth trying the open source route for the tinkering value, though the Squeezebox system does allow for quite a bit of tinkering (but in Perl, yuck!).

[pardales]

"Momma's gotta squeezebox....daddy never sleeps at night"