[Marbles]

About 9 days ago, Robert Schult of Ridge Street Audio came by.  We played music and I tried his digital cable.

The Ridge Street embarrassed my Bolder digital with Canare connectors.  The RSA had deeper bass, slighter better highs and slightly better placement in space of the notes.

I sent Wayne at Bolder an email and told him that his digital got it’s ass kicked.  Did he have any digital cables with the WBT Nextgen connectors?  

He ended up sending 3 cables, Nextgen copper, silver and an Eichman Silver.

When they arrived I decided that I should put in the WBT Silver to see if the Bolders could even match the RSA cable.  At this point I was skeptical that would happen.

The first thing I did was play Jennifer Warnes – The Hunter with the RSA cable in.  I play songs 1, 2, 8, and 9 as my test songs.

Then I put in the Bolder WBT silver.  Whoa!!! This is different!  The sounds are really separated like I’ve never heard them before.  Bass is as deep as the RSA, but the midrange is not as full.  I’m not sure which is more correct.

I put the RSA back in.. very nice.  The midrange is very seductive, but the soundstage is less distinct.
I put the Bolder Silver WBT back in.  WOW!!! The notes are really separated in space in a very good way.
There seems to be more air around them.

Then it hits me, this will not be so much a review of cables as it will be connectors.

I have 4 Bolder cables with different terminations, and one RSA digital cable with the same silver Eichman terminations as a Bolder.

Tuesday night I get a chance to try the RSA vs the Bolder Silver Eichman.  The difference should be the cable.

Again, the RSA has a very full sound.  Jennifer has a very sexy seductive voice.  It is slightly and I mean slight in the extreme that the bolder is a little clearer at the extremes, but not by much.  In back to back playings of song #8 – Way Down Deep, I could not tell the cables apart.  All other songs, I give a slight edge to the RSA.

Next cable was the  WBT copper.  Alas it made the CD sound like it was skipping.  Touching the cable with no music playing made the dac make a metallic clicking sound.  The cable came out and never went back in.

Back in went the Silver WBT cable.  Again it does not have as full a sound as the RSA, but it seems to have a blacker back round and sound “cleaner”.  

Since I can’t have a combination of the two, I prefer the Bolder with Silver WBT’s.

To recap, the Bolder digicable with Canare connectors was pretty good, but the Bolder with Silver Eichmans is much better IMO.

I cannot report on the Bolder with copper WBT’s  do to a problem with it.

The RSA (silver Eichmans) slightly edged the Bolder with silver Eichmans.

I prefer the Bolder with Silver WBT’s to the RSA with Silver Eichmans.

Just to make sure, I’m not saying the Bolder is better, just that I prefer it in my system.  Both are wonderful cables and I could easily see where one would prefer the RSA over the Bolder.

The Bolder with Silver WBT's is around $160 and the RSA with Silver Eichmans is on sale for $250.

[lonewolfny42]

Marbles,

Thanks for your comments. What speaker cables were you using ? Do you happen to own a copy of James Taylor's "October Road" ? Make's a nice test cd...give it a try. [/list:u]

[Marbles]

double post

[Marbles]

Speaker cable and IC's were Bolder Nitro series.  The speaker cables have Furutech spades, the jumpers have Bybees.

One set of IC's have Bybees, all have Eichman bullet connectors.




Top is RSA, next is Bolder Silver WBT, the Silver Eichman, the copper WBT, then Canare

[Marbles]

I do not have October Road, but I agree that JT has some great test songs.

[brj]

Hi Marbles - nice review!

I found this statement particularly interesting:

Then it hits me, this will not be so much a review of cables as it will be connectors.

Ignoring such exotic modifications like integrated Bybees, and based on other cables you have listened to, do you think that the previous statement might apply more generally?

Silver and copper have similar connectivity, and there doesn't seem to be any significant consensus on wire geometry, so I'm wondering if much of what people hear when comparing cables comes down to the connectors!

Thanks!

[lonewolfny42]

Just one other comment from me. I've found that the RSA IC's sound their best when used with RSA SC's. I believe when MadDog did an audition of the RSA cables, IC's sounded good, but when RSA SC added, sounded much better! That has been my experience too.

[Marbles]

BRJ, Beats me!

I'm really not smart enough to answer that question.

All I can say is that every single little detail matters in a system.

LonewolfNY, I wouldn't doubt that's true.  I hope to find out in a few weeks  

[claud]

Did you figure out what was wrong with the Boulder with the copper NXTgen connectors? I just bought one and am waiting for my SN Tube DAC+.

[Marbles]

I just found out that the problem with the copper WBT cable was a connector was almost unscrewed and was too lose.  I screwed it back on and A/B'd it with the Silver WBT.

The copper one has much of the resolution of the silver, but not quite as much, and it has a warmer presentation.

I still much prefer the silver.

[bubba966]

Ahh, so that's where those Silver WBT's went. I wondered what happened to them, and now I know...

[Mad DOg]

...I believe when MadDog did an audition of the RSA cables, IC's sounded good, but when RSA SC added, sounded much better! That has been my experience too.

Lonewolf,

Just to set the record straight...I don't believe I ever said that adding the RSA SC improved the sound of my system...In fact, I PURPOSELY did not share any of my impressions about the RSA SC publicly even tho I did audition it....

Now I did say the RSA MSE GenIIs were good...but I've since found that there are quite a few ICs that work even better in my system...Argent Audio Jaden Signatures, Argent Audio Pursang, Acoustic Zen Silver Ref Mk II, Onix Grand Masters and the Eichmann eXpress6 Series 2s...

I think Zybar's IC comparison accurately and concisely sums up what I have also experienced with the same cables...

[Wayne1]

All of the WBT RCA male connectors use a "locking" type connection.

This is quite different than the Eichmann or Canare connectors. It does require that the end user be aware of this. The outer barrel is threaded. If it is too loose the barrel can prevent the connector from making contact. If the barrel is too tight, the same thing can happen. One should try to have the barrel slightly loose so the connector can slide fully onto the female RCA. Then you should tighten the barrel to clamp tightly onto the female. This will prevent the RCA from sliding off due to any vibration.

I do feel the new WBT NextGen connectors are the finest sounding I have heard. Thank you Rob, for taking the time to compare the different connectors in your system.

Right now the Silver NextGen connectors are on backorder from Germany. WBT-USA has over 400 on order but has only received a few pieces. They will hopefully recieve their back ordered stock this week.

Depending on your system, you may like the sound of the copper WBT over the Silver or maybe the other way around. I do prefer the sound of the copper WBT over the Silver Bullet. YMMV in any case they are not cheap. $30.00 EACH for the copper WBT and $50.00 EACH for the silver.

[JoshK]

Wayne,

One question, as sorry for steering off topic, but do the WBT Nextgen's require soldering or are they solderless?  The reason I ask is I know that WBT does make some solderless RCAs and I am thinking of getting my hands on a pair of playing around with geometry and dialetrics and would rather not solder and resolder the connectors.   But I'd also like to use really nice RCAs for evaluation purposes.

For the record, I have no intentions of getting into the cable biz and causing competition with you or any other cable manu.   This is for my own fun and enjoyment only.  I just know you have played with more connectors than I have.

[Wayne1]

The WBT NextGen are a solder only connector. They are not as delicate as the Bullet Plugs but you do have to be fairly careful with the amount of heat applied. WBT does make a crimp type RCA but not in the NextGen design.

[JoshK]

Thanks Wayne!

In regards to the topic in this thread, I am starting to confirm for myself (is there really any other way?) that connectors do indeed have a huge impact on the sound!  Sometimes as much or more than the specifics about the wire itself.  I really didn't want to believe that the silver eichmanns were really better than the copper eichmanns basically because I didn't want to shell out the extra dough.  Man are they expensive little buggers!  And the WBT silvers are ungodly expensive!  But my own IC cable building and comparison suggests that they do make a big difference on the sound.  Damn!

Same holds true with my AC connector experimentation. I wish it weren't so.

[Robert C. Schult]

Hey Rob.

Thanks for posting your impressions. I’m looking forward to getting the other cabling to you…including speaker cables with our jumpers . I much suspect the slight sense of confusion(?) you experienced with the MSE Gen.II Digital Link as a stand alone will be alleviated. Would you say your digital front end gets closer to your analog front end with the MSE Gen.II? That seemed to be one of my impressions anyway.

I haven’t tried the WBT Nextgen RCAs for a couple reasons. One being that the conductors can only be soldered with the present Nextgens. Because of how we use the Eichmanns, they allow for a gas tight, cold weld or crimp (which ever term you want) connection that then can be further sealed with a quick bit of solder. I like this arrangement because I don’t have to rely on the solder (however good the solder is) to conduct the signal. The Nextgens don’t allow for my termination preferences. Also, the Nextgens are definitely more robust while the Eichmanns are certainly lower mass and are more delicate in their construction. I believe the lower mass of the Eichmanns has it’s advantages sonically and the more delicate construction nature has only been an issue where end users are taking a 20 foot running start to ram the plug into the back of the gear . Both, in my opinion, are excellent plugs from a design stand point.

Rob, I think your best bet, if you wanted to get a good handle on different RCA connector’s contribution to a cable’s performance, would be to try the different connectors on the same cable product or design. Variables between different “cable proper” designs will certainly have an influence on sound.  Comparing different RCA plugs not using the same cable won’t give a concise verdict of how the RCA plug itself sounds. Does that make sense? What do you think? It is refreshing to hear you talk about the possibilities of RCA plugs being a significant contribution to a cable’s performance. I’ve believed this for a long time but unfortunately, it’s either not considered important enough to talk about too often or is relegated to stupidity that RCA plugs could make a difference. Anyway, good for you, JoshK and brj that you get it.

Brj, I assert that even with digital cables, different presentations can be had from different cables regardless of the connector used. But, like I said above, connectors and even their termination method can and do have an influence on a given cables performance that shouldn’t be ignored. For example, with the MSE Gen.II Digital I/C, everything about the materials and topology were chosen for how the cable would perform as a finished product. Comparatively, it does make a difference. If, in my experience, it didn’t make a difference, we wouldn’t go through the trouble of building this cable from the ground up.

Hmmm….I see Mad DOg has posted here outside of his apparent secret society club. To not muck this thread up, I’ve posted (publicly) my thoughts   HERE.

Thanks again Rob for the impressions.  CHEERS all!

[Marbles]

Hey Rob.

Would you say your digital front end gets closer to your analog front end with the MSE Gen.II? That seemed to be one of my impressions anyway.

...

You know I haven't played an LP since I got the Bolder cables.  I think that the RSA does a better job matching my analog toneally, and the Bolder does a better job than my analog in having the notes in their own space.

In my review I wasn't very clear...In the review I hoped to compare the connectors of the Bolder cables to each other, and with regard to the Bolder with the silver Eichmans, to compare that one to your cable with the same connectors.  The problem I had with that was the constant was your cables, so in order to tell the differences between the connectors, I had to pretty much describe them vs your cable.

I think you are making a mistake in not at least experimenting with the WBT Nextgens.  What I found was that I slightly preffered your cable to the Bolder with Silver Eichmans.  I liked the same Bolder cable with different connectors (WBT Silvers) to yours.  Since the difference was the connector, it might extrapolate that I might prefer yours if it had the Silver Nexgens.  

Anyway, I hope you do experiment a bit with the WBT's and post your impressions afterward.  I don't know which connector is supposed to have lower mass, but the Nexgens are supposed to have low and compete directly with the Eichmans.  IMO they surpassed them.

[Robert C. Schult]

Yea, I think your suggestion is definately worthy of investigation. Thanks. I will audition the Nextgens when they offer a "crimp" version in the silver and availability is more settled.  Right now I gotta go...I'm having dejavu and it's scaring the hell out of me!

[lonewolfny42]

Lonewolf,

Just to set the record straight...I don't believe I ever said that adding the RSA SC improved the sound of my system...In fact, I PURPOSELY did not share any of my impressions about the RSA SC publicly even tho I did audition it....

Now I did say the RSA MSE GenIIs were good...but I've since found that there are quite a few ICs that work even better in my system...Argent Audio Jaden Signatures, Argent Audio Pursang, Acoustic Zen Silver Ref Mk II, Onix Grand Masters and the Eichmann eXpress6  ...

MadDog,

I stand corrected....must be my memory going. But you did say they were excellent...

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=7562&start=0 . I must of been thinking about Beezer's review, as he added cables the sound improved.... http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=5820&highlight=ridge+street . There were at least 6 reviews, easy to confuse...but whatever, people should use what works for them. In my case....its Ridge Street Audio. [/list:u]