HT2-TL crossover with Sub

advanced101 · « **on:** 12 Jul 2011, 12:49 pm »

I was wondering what you guys are crossing your HT2-TLs at with your sub? I hope to get my pair in a couple of weeks and will be crossing it over with a JL F112 (or F113 if I decide to upgrade).

TJHUB · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 Jul 2011, 01:15 pm »

Quote from: advanced101 on 12 Jul 2011, 12:49 pm

I was wondering what you guys are crossing your HT2-TLs at with your sub? I hope to get my pair in a couple of weeks and will be crossing it over with a JL F112 (or F113 if I decide to upgrade).

There are a few options for you. What is your associated gear? Preamp, amp? How many outputs does your preamp have? Do you use a preamp with HT-bypass?

ratso · « **Reply #2 on:** 12 Jul 2011, 02:21 pm »

i have a single rythmik F15 right now and am getting my second this week. i was suprised how well they integrate with the HT2-TL's for music. i read in a thread here a while back that dennis suggested just crossing them over at 80hz but in my room that makes the sub a tad bit too localizable on some music (however it is tends to vary with recordings). overall, i have settled on 60hz but will see if it changes when i add the second sub. bottom line - you're going to have to play with it some to see what works in your room/for you.

Kinger · « **Reply #3 on:** 12 Jul 2011, 02:32 pm »

ratso - Just curious, are you EQ'ing your sub in any way? Do you have a pre-amp that applies a high pass filter or are you just running your mains with a full signal?

TJHUB · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 Jul 2011, 02:34 pm »

Quote from: ratso on 12 Jul 2011, 02:21 pm

i have a single rythmik F15 right now and am getting my second this week. i was suprised how well they integrate with the HT2-TL's for music. i read in a thread here a while back that dennis suggested just crossing them over at 80hz but in my room that makes the sub a tad bit too localizable on some music (however it is tends to vary with recordings). overall, i have settled on 60hz but will see if it changes when i add the second sub. bottom line - you're going to have to play with it some to see what works in your room/for you.

Rythmik subs are fantastic with music and integrate well with any speaker. However, I agree with Dennis in that 80Hz is a great crossover point. If you are hearing issues with your sub and localizing it, it is most likely due to a very poor in-room frequency response. Are you EQing the sub in any way? If not, you should!

TJHUB · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Jul 2011, 02:35 pm »

Quote from: Kinger on 12 Jul 2011, 02:32 pm

ratso - Just curious, are you EQ'ing your sub in any way? Do you have a pre-amp that applies a high pass filter or are you just running your mains with a full signal?

Jeez, looks like a pro is on the case already.

ricardojoa · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 Jul 2011, 03:02 pm »

Well, i have the same question but with regards to the songtower that hopefully i will be getting in a few weeks.
Anyway, instead of high passing the fronts, what is theword on running the fronts full range and having the port blocked/covered with some sort of cloth so that it will act similar to a sealed cabinet. Since the TL uses much larger cabinet, i'm not sure how that will affect the bass drivers.
I currently have my Sierra with this type of set up and the integration has been great, with less localization of the sub. But im not sure how would that apply to the songtower and what is the word on this kind setting.

Kinger · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 Jul 2011, 03:32 pm »

No pro here

Just a guy who is looking to integrate a Rythmik 12 with his ST's as well and gets nervous whenever he sees words like "localized" in relation to a sub as I don't want to be able to do this.

ricardojoa · « **Reply #8 on:** 12 Jul 2011, 03:41 pm »

By the way, when i said localize, i don't mean i cant point where the bass is coming from. Instead, the bass seem like is coming from somewhere else rather from the front speakers. When i run the front full range and crossing the sub below 50hz, the bass or the sound seems like is coming from the front. It seems like i get more impact. I will say the integration with full range and cross sub low is better overall then cross front and sub at 80.

advanced101 · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 Jul 2011, 03:53 pm »

I dont have a way of digitally creating a high pass. I was thinking about ordering one of these:
http://www.marchandelec.com/xm46.html
Another idea is the FMOD, I have the 50hz high pass that I am going to try, but might order the 70hz to compare.

But I need an idea where to place the high pass. 80hz, seems awfully high, but I don't have the HT2s yet so I don't know.

FYI, JL recommends that I crossover at 80hz as well. So JL and Dennis recommend 80hz.

TJHUB · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 Jul 2011, 03:53 pm »

Quote from: ricardojoa on 12 Jul 2011, 03:41 pm

By the way, when i said localize, i don't mean i cant point where the bass is coming from. Instead, the bass seem like is coming from somewhere else rather from the front speakers. When i run the front full range and crossing the sub below 50hz, the bass or the sound seems like is coming from the front. It seems like i get more impact. I will say the integration with full range and cross sub low is better overall then cross front and sub at 80.

Gotcha. I still say this is due to a poor in-room frequency response.

Do you have any pictures of your room you can post? How about a description of your room and the locations of your, speakers, sub, and listening position?

ccotenj · « **Reply #11 on:** 12 Jul 2011, 05:35 pm »

i cross mine at 80hz to a pair of submersive hp's...

ccotenj · « **Reply #12 on:** 12 Jul 2011, 05:36 pm »

Quote from: TJHUB on 12 Jul 2011, 03:53 pm

Gotcha. I still say this is due to a poor in-room frequency response.

Do you have any pictures of your room you can post? How about a description of your room and the locations of your, speakers, sub, and listening position?

agreed...

Nuance · « **Reply #13 on:** 12 Jul 2011, 06:14 pm »

Wait a minute: I thought the point of "bass" was to have it coming from everywhere, not just a single location. Is that what you're talking about, ricardojoa, or does it just sound like it's coming from a specific place other than the front of the sound stage? Bass should be fully enveloping; it's not directional. Localization, whether it's by the speakers or coming from anther spot, is bad. The bass in my room comes from the left, the center, the right...everywhere! This is the same thing I heard in TJHUB's room the last time I visited. Is this not what the ultimate goal is? If not, then I've got work to do.

Kinger · « **Reply #14 on:** 12 Jul 2011, 07:24 pm »

That's a good question there Nuance. I was just wondering the same thing last night as I was listening to a track that had some nice punchy mid bass right in the center of my soundstage. If I start crossing over this bass to a sub does that mean that midbass would no longer be located in the center of the soundstage? Or are you just saying that your bass information shows up wherever it was either recorded or mixed?

TJHUB · « **Reply #15 on:** 12 Jul 2011, 07:33 pm »

Quote from: Kinger on 12 Jul 2011, 07:24 pm

That's a good question there Nuance. I was just wondering the same thing last night as I was listening to a track that had some nice punchy mid bass right in the center of my soundstage. If I start crossing over this bass to a sub does that mean that midbass would no longer be located in the center of the soundstage? Or are you just saying that your bass information shows up wherever it was either recorded or mixed?

Low bass seems to come from everywhere, while midbass should absolutely sound like it's coming from the speakers or center stage. You should not be able to localize any low bass frequencies, ever.

ratso · « **Reply #16 on:** 12 Jul 2011, 07:47 pm »

Quote from: Kinger on 12 Jul 2011, 02:32 pm

ratso - Just curious, are you EQ'ing your sub in any way? Do you have a pre-amp that applies a high pass filter or are you just running your mains with a full signal?

i have denon's 4311CI which has audyssey's XT32 (pretty much the same as the standalone AS-EQ1 by SVS). and i agree with TJHUB that a majority of my issues are a very difficult room to work with. audyssey has done a great job of taming it though, and i am really waiting to get my second sub before really trying to dial it in more.

ccotenj · « **Reply #17 on:** 12 Jul 2011, 10:49 pm »

^^^

i recently purchased an a100 basically to get xt32*... once i got the 2nd sub, i really wanted to try it out, based upon some real positive feedback from "people i trust"...

i'm not disappointed in the results...

xt32 + dual subs =

the only bad part is now i want a 3rd...

* the other reason i "justified" the purchase with was that i wanted to get away from a pre/pro and amplifier setup and use "one box" again... that has worked out well too...

Kinger · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 Jul 2011, 11:08 pm »

Interesting. I have no plans to go back to a single box and wouldn't want to give up my AVAT8 pre. To that end, I plan to try using a SMS-1 with a Rythmik F12 and hope that I can get it to integrate well............

TJHUB · « **Reply #19 on:** 12 Jul 2011, 11:12 pm »

Quote from: Kinger on 12 Jul 2011, 11:08 pm

Interesting. I have no plans to go back to a single box and wouldn't want to give up my AVAT8 pre. To that end, I plan to try using a SMS-1 with a Rythmik F12 and hope that I can get it to integrate well............

You will.