Can't get my JKENY Hiface to work....

rtate · « **on:** 17 Jun 2011, 02:22 pm »

I have been trying to get one of the MK1 JKENY
hi-faces to work in my system but I can't seem to get it to work....

I installed the driver from the disc for win xp
and it installs correctly and then I hooked it up to my Grant Fidelity Dac-09 and set to coaxial.
open foobar and start a song.
When I select volume control >options>properties and select"hiface kernel streaming" still nothing.
If I close the volume control and go back to it has switched back to "usb sound device"
foobar recognizes it and it looks like it's playing but no sound....
any suggestions??
One thing, the led on the hi-face is red. Is that a problem...

rtate · « **Reply #1 on:** 17 Jun 2011, 05:55 pm »

As an update I let the battery charge and I can get it to work Somewhat...

It will work with foobar which I use sometimes but my main player while I at my PC is Softsqueeze.
I can't get it to work through the Softsqueeze player at all....

Suggestions

jkeny · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 Jun 2011, 03:30 pm »

Hi Robert,
As you are just installing the driver now I take it that you purchased this Hiface from somebody else? I don't seem to have your name in my database?
Was it working when you bought it?

If you see the Hiface device as one of your sound devices then the unit is installing correctly.
If you choose this as the output in Foobar, I don't know why there is no sound.
When you say you let the battery charge & it works somewhat - what does this mean?

Squeezecenter, is not a suitable playback software - it is for squeezebox devices only, AFAIK.

rtate · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 Jun 2011, 03:44 pm »

Thanks for the reply John.
I have got the hiface working with Foobar although I think I may need to tweek the settings.
I purchased the hiface from Quang Chen who lives in Quebec.
Why is the Softsqueeze player not suitable for the hiface?...
I have sent you a PM...

jkeny · « **Reply #4 on:** 18 Jun 2011, 03:54 pm »

Quote from: rtate on 18 Jun 2011, 03:44 pm

Thanks for the reply John.
I have got the hiface working with Foobar although I think I may need to tweek the settings.

Why? What for?

Quote

I purchased the hiface from Quang Chen who lives in Quebec.

He is not in my customer database so this has passed through the hands of a number of owners, it would seem

Quote

Why is the Softsqueeze player not suitable for the hiface?...
I have sent you a PM...

Softsqueeze doesn't work with any sound card - does it - only the squeezebox devices??

rtate · « **Reply #5 on:** 18 Jun 2011, 04:20 pm »

Ther are some settings such in the playback area like
DS Hiface or KS hiface , I was not sure which one to use, If I select Asio, I loose the sound...
also my computer settings to optimize playback...in XP the hiface was only selectable for recording and not playback..I have to select usb device to get it to work.

I can use the softsqueeze player via usb directly to the dac so I do not understand what a usb transport would do differently, I thought it would just be reclocking and allow higher resolution if desired...

jkeny · « **Reply #6 on:** 18 Jun 2011, 04:25 pm »

Quote from: rtate on 18 Jun 2011, 04:20 pm

Ther are some settings such in the playback area like
DS Hiface or KS hiface , I was not sure which one to use, If I select Asio, I loose the sound...

Just use KS Hiface

Quote

also my computer settings to optimize playback...in XP the hiface was only selectable for recording and not playback..I have to select usb device to get it to work.

I don't know what you mean?

Quote

I can use the softsqueeze player via usb directly to the dac so I do not understand what a usb transport would do differently, I thought it would just be reclocking and allow higher resolution if desired...

You mean the SS player will output to a soundcard via USB? Does it not work on SS devices connected via ethernet only?

wilsynet · « **Reply #7 on:** 18 Jun 2011, 04:50 pm »

The SoftSqueeze player is a Windows/Mac/Unix music player written in Java which sources a Squeezebox server for its media. It's a good idea. With it, presumably you could have a single Squeezebox server that streams to multiple Squeezebox devices and PCs throughout your home.

While this may be a M2Tech driver issue, I'd more likely guess it's a SoftSqueeze issue, but is definitely not a JKENY issue.

Looking at this thread, it looks like SoftSqueeze has been challenged before to work with kernel streaming. Looks like the Java infrastructure isn't quite all there to work with everything.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/softsqueeze/forums/forum/362090/topic/1259572

Anyway, this isn't a JKENY issue. All he did was improve the clock. This is either a configuration issue or an incompatibility between SoftSqueeze, Java, Windows, and the M2Tech HiFace drivers.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet the SoftSqueeze and Java are at fault. Having said that, a quick way out of this may be to try Windows 7. They re-vamped the audio subsystem and this may have been a benefit to Java. Better be sure that M2Tech has Windows 7 drivers.

jkeny · « **Reply #8 on:** 18 Jun 2011, 04:57 pm »

Thanks Wilysnet for your input - I thought that Squeezecenter only dealt with squeezecenter devices attached on an ethernet LAN - I wasn't aware that it had potential to be used as a general purpose playback software with any sound card (US or otherwise)?

I'm kinda confused also by rtate's post - I presumed that he was talking about the Foobar settings for KS Hiface, ASIO, etc?

wilsynet · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 Jun 2011, 05:07 pm »

Yes, the SqueezeBox protocols are completely open, so anyone can write a client and pretend to be a SqueezeBox device.

Looks like he's talking about ASIO, but yeah, SoftSqueeze doesn't know how to talk to ASIO as noted by the thread I referenced.

jkeny · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Jun 2011, 05:11 pm »

Quote from: wilsynet on 18 Jun 2011, 05:07 pm

Yes, the SqueezeBox protocols are completely open, so anyone can write a client and pretend to be a SqueezeBox device.

Looks like he's talking about ASIO, but yeah, SoftSqueeze doesn't know how to talk to ASIO as noted by the thread I referenced.

Yes, but a client has to be specially written for the audio device to work with SoftSqueeze i.e you can't just take any sound card & expect it work! This is what I have been trying to communicate!

wilsynet · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 Jun 2011, 05:25 pm »

We may be talking past each other, as I think you already know this. Application vendors (Foobar, iTunes, J River and SoftSqueeze!) write their applications to use the operating system services, while device vendors write their drivers to conform to the contract and specifications of those services.

The SoftSqueeze guy wrote the software to take media content from SqueezeCenter for output to the Windows / Mac etc audio subsystem. In an ideal world anyway, any sound card should work. Just think of SoftSqueeze as a music player that replaces filesystem access for music files with SqueezeCenter.

Unfortunately, it isn't always that simple. Aside from bugs and unexpected incompatibility that comes from complexity, as services are enhanced over time, for example ASIO, the software vendors need to adapt their software to new services -- like ASIO. In the case of SoftSqueeze, it looks like the Java infrastructure it's built on doesn't support anything other than the basic audio services that Windows supports. So no ASIO for SoftSqueeze. Having said that, Windows 7 simplified this, eliminating the need for ASIO, so it may just work with Windows 7, but I'm not sure.

rtate · « **Reply #12 on:** 18 Jun 2011, 05:29 pm »

Sorry for the confusion , my inexperience is very obvious but I'm trying to learn...
I did not mean to imply that it is a JKENY issue at all ,I know it's a configuration issue on my end.
For the Asio and KS hiface settings I am referring specifically to Foobar.
I assumed that the hiface would accept a signal from any player..

The "softsqueeze" player is not a piece of hardware, it is a software program that resides on my PC and acesses music on the Squeezecenter server(also on my PC). I do have "Squeezebox" hardware players in other areas of my home that access the server wirelessly...
I have the latest m2tech driver installed and I think my java is up to date as well.

As for updating to win7 my computer is 3 yrs old and I have been told that I can't update from XP with my current intel quad core mother board

jkeny · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 Jun 2011, 05:37 pm »

Ah, OK, I confused myself - thinking that it was the SqueezeCenter software that was being talked about,

Duh! A bit slow today, I'm afraid

Thanks for the help Wilysnet!

So, rtate, I believe what Wilysnet is saying is that the Java library routines built into SqueezCenter are not capable of the type of operation you are trying? Correct me if I'm wrong, Wily. SO thi smight be a question for the SqueezeCenter forum?

As to the rest - the MK1 Hiface works, correct? It will work with Foobar & lots of other music playback software including PurePlayer that I recommended to you.

Hope this helps

wilsynet · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 Jun 2011, 05:42 pm »

The HiFace *is* accessible from any player. However, in this case, I think the player (in particular likely Java) is at fault. Your drivers and Java may very well be up to date, but that doesn't mean Java will support what you want it to do.

Best way to narrow this down is to try 2-3 different other players. If Foobar, iTunes, JRiver all work and only SoftSqueeze doesn't, then guess what?

Device manufacturers cannot guarantee they will work with everything. They can say "I will honor my part of the contract" and they can even say "I have tested my part with this other vendor's parts and I can assure you that I know that we together honor the contract". But they cannot say "I honor the contract and I warranty that everyone else has honored the contract too".

It's just not possible for a vendor to test interoperability with every other vendor. What they will often do is pick the most popular complementary vendors and be sure that it works with those guys. I doubt that anyone thinks to test interoperability with SoftSqueeze.

wilsynet · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 Jun 2011, 05:52 pm »

The question is appropriate for the vendor of SoftSqueeze who has already stated that he has no time to support things like ASIO. But more importantly, he can't really support anyone. He's a lone guy writing free software.

Quad core is just fine for Windows 7. What you really need for Windows 7 is a modern video card and plenty of memory. If you can upgrade your memory to 4GB, and you can buy a new-ish video card, you're in business.

My opinion? You're out of luck. Stop using SoftSqueeze or ditch the M2Tech. This will be very difficult to resolve if it is resolvable at all.

rtate · « **Reply #16 on:** 18 Jun 2011, 05:56 pm »

Thanks for the help guys...

John, The Mk1 hiface is working perfectly with Foobar.
wilsynet, thanks for the explanation.I completely understand what you are saying about
interoperability(my word for the day

)
where my confusion lies is that I thought that if the m2tech drivers work with one player they ought to work for all as it's really just a pass through device no??
just 1's and 0's being reclocked...
I'm sure the explanation is over my head and it's one of those things I'm just going to have to accept....
I would like to keep trying the hiface as I would like to try some hi-rez audio...
I've heard that J-River is good and I have a couple of other recommendations as well

wilsynet · « **Reply #17 on:** 18 Jun 2011, 06:03 pm »

The idea is simple, but the implementation is not. M2Tech had to write their own drivers, and this is pure speculation (informed however by my background as a software developer) but it likely has a driver profile that most players recognize, but Java does not. What we need to understand about Java is that it is a language and environment that is intended to simplify programming and make all operating systems look the same to the programmer.

The necessary drawback is that Java is always playing catch up with advanced features of the operating system. I suspect that the M2Tech drivers implement an advanced service that Java has not gotten around to supporting. In fact, they may never get around to supporting it. As far as I know, Java as a business does not make money for Oracle. Java probably loses money by the truckfull.

Developers choose to use Java because it simplifies their task. But then they have to live with potentially being unable to take advantage of new features of a platform or being powerless when the promise of agnosticism and interoperability fails in the real world.

I find Java very good for some things and not so good with others. I would not write a media player in Java. It is suitable, but I do not think it is appropriate or best.

toddbagwell · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 Jun 2011, 08:08 pm »

Quote from: rtate on 18 Jun 2011, 05:29 pm

(snip)...

As for updating to win7 my computer is 3 yrs old and I have been told that I can't update from XP with my current intel quad core mother board

Just so anyone reading this is clear, you can install windows 7 on a machine that is running xp. You might need to tweak the video card or ram, but in general you should be able to if your machine is only 3 years old.

The difficulty with xp to windows 7 is you cannot do an "upgrade" type of installation. You are required to start with a new installation, making it harder to easily import your previous personal settings for things such as browser bookmarks and the like.

If you really want win7 you should be ok, just might have to do a bit more work once it is installed to get things how you had it on the old one.

Thanks,
Todd

rtate · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 Jun 2011, 11:18 pm »

I must need to find a new "computer guy" because he tells me that there is no driver support for my motherboard...
Mysystem is:
Intel core2 quad Q6600 at 2.4GHz with 3.25 GHz of ram
I think the video is ATI Radeon HD 3800 series.