Tube Integrated Amp Suggestions for VR-4 Gen.III's ...???

StereoNut · « **on:** 8 Jun 2011, 11:14 pm »

First off to the VSA Owner Circle facilitator(s) - if this is too much like the "What amps work well with VSA" thread, kill this one. I just think that integrated amps are different enough vs. separates that this can be a thread on it's own.

Anyway, if this thread does make "the light of day"... I have VR-4 Gen.III's that I intend on sending in to Albert for the SR Mk.4 upgrade relatively soon. In the meantime, I've been contemplating making the jump to tubes. (I'm running old, but modded Naim chrome bumper electronics: NAC42, NAP250, modded Dual powered SNAPS and a custom Outboard Phono Stage using Naim phono boards)

I prefer a tube integrated with auto or easy biasing for the uninitiated like myself. I'd also would like to stay away from anything that uses mega-buck, hard to find tubes. I am NOT opposed to demo or used equipment if it will get me a better amp for my money. To keep this manageable, figure on a budget of around $2500.00 (or less?) give or take a few bucks.

I need at least 2 inputs; to cover CD and LP. If I have to give up my tuner, I will. I will also need to know if I can still use my outboard Naim phono stage or not, because vinyl is a MUST!

I'd like to know what you've tried, what's sounded good (or hasn't) and if you'd do it again.

Thanks!

Delacroix · « **Reply #1 on:** 8 Jun 2011, 11:20 pm »

Hi Stereonut

happy to leave it run for a bit but I think we have touched on integrateds too on the amp thread. For me, I point you at the Audio Space Ref 3.1 -- I reviewed it a couple of years back and the memory of it is still vivid. Wonderful match with my VR5s (as I've noted previously). Not sure if the VR4-IIIs pose a different challenge but I suspect the synergy would be there. You do need to bias it yourself occasionally but it's pretty simple (put the selection knob into bias mode, turn a screw, watch the dial) and it also looks gorgeous too.

Best

StereoNut · « **Reply #2 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 01:30 am »

Thanx, Delacroix.

Considering I'm just gathering up the last few dollars I need for the SR Mk.4 upgrade, I'm really not ready to spend $$$ on a tube integrated just yet. I was curious as to what I should set my sights on though, thus my post.

Unfortunately, the Audio Space Ref. 3.1 is way too expensive for me. Here's what's listed on their website:

REFERENCE 3.1 (KT88) INTERGRATED STEREO AMP.
PRICE: US$5,775.00/PC

REFERENCE 3.1 (300B) INTERGRATED STEREO AMP.
PRICE: US$6,838.00/PC

I guess maybe the first parameter that I should establish is how many TUBE watts per channel will I need to drive my VR-4 Gen.III's after they've been upgraded to SR Mk.4 status.

es347 · « **Reply #3 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 01:32 am »

Hey Patrick..

I googled the Audio Space Ref 3.1...you are correct that is one beautiful piece. If the sound matches the aesthetic, it must be very very good.

es347 · « **Reply #4 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 01:33 am »

Wow, when Dick Olsher reviewed it in 2009 it was just under $4K. How on earth do these companies justify the price increases we've seen in the past few years....ridiculous.

rpf · « **Reply #5 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 01:52 am »

Bill,

They have less expensive models, starting under $2k. See the listings on A'gon. Underwood Hi-Fi just picked up the line.

I'm kind of in the same boat. But if I'm going to keep my speakers I need at least 75-80 tube wpc.

Will send you a email tomorrow about getting together.

Rob

pardales · « **Reply #6 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 01:58 am »

Check out AC manufacturer: Niteshade. Blair makes some fine sounding tube gear and probably has an amp that will fit your budget and work great with your speakers. His NS-40 comes to mind.

SlushPuppy · « **Reply #7 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 03:47 am »

Quote from: StereoNut on 9 Jun 2011, 01:30 am

Thanx, Delacroix.

Considering I'm just gathering up the last few dollars I need for the SR Mk.4 upgrade, I'm really not ready to spend $$$ on a tube integrated just yet. I was curious as to what I should set my sights on though, thus my post.

Unfortunately, the Audio Space Ref. 3.1 is way too expensive for me. Here's what's listed on their website:

REFERENCE 3.1 (KT88) INTERGRATED STEREO AMP.
PRICE: US$5,775.00/PC

REFERENCE 3.1 (300B) INTERGRATED STEREO AMP.
PRICE: US$6,838.00/PC

I guess maybe the first parameter that I should establish is how many TUBE watts per channel will I need to drive my VR-4 Gen.III's after they've been upgraded to SR Mk.4 status.

The Audio Space Reference 3.1 (KT88) is $3650 brand new at Underwood Hifi. That price has been stable for quite some time:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatube&1311380251&/Audio-Space-Ref-3.1-%28KT88%29-Tri

SlushPuppy · « **Reply #8 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 03:50 am »

Personally, I like the Cayin A-100T:

http://www.msshifi.com/crazy-super-insane-sales/power-amps/integrated-and-receiver/cayin-a-100t-integrated-tube-amplifier.html

StereoNut · « **Reply #9 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 12:35 pm »

Thanks for the replies / ideas! I've been takin' notes.

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #10 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 03:28 pm »

StereoNut:

A few years ago long before I had my VR 4's upgraded a good Bud of mine brought his Audio Research mono tube amps over and hooked them up into my system.

The results were disappointing.

The VR 4's sounded better hooked up to a pair of Nad 218 THX amps I had then.
Not what you are looking into right now but just some info. I'd like to share with you.

IMHO the VR 4's sound very good run by a tube preamp and solid state amp.

Cheers
Charlie

Delacroix · « **Reply #11 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 03:40 pm »

Quote from: es347 on 9 Jun 2011, 01:33 am

Wow, when Dick Olsher reviewed it in 2009 it was just under $4K. How on earth do these companies justify the price increases we've seen in the past few years....ridiculous.

Ouch indeed -- when I reviewed it back in 2008 or thereabouts, it was just over $3k, I had no idea it had shot up in price. Still stands as one of the best I've heard in my rig over long listening sessions - just a plain great sounding amp with the VR5s (non-Annis edition)

JackD201 · « **Reply #12 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 05:02 pm »

I wish I had tried some tube amps with my HSE. What I do remember is that they needed a lot more juice than the SR Mk1s and the VR-5 SEs that followed. I'd say the HSEs would need at the very least 100 solid watts for more than just easy listening. 100wpc Tube integrated amps in the prescribed price range are rare birds. I don't know of any company aside from Jolida and Cayin that make them. That's a lot of power tubes so the package will likely be a pretty large one.

Afterimage · « **Reply #13 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 10:00 pm »

There is a Cary SLI-80 Signature Integrated amp for sale on A-gon in your price range. Plenty of info on the net if you want to research this item. Have you heard anything from Cary before? Good luck.

rpf · « **Reply #14 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 11:31 pm »

There's also the Rogue Cronus Magnum with 90wpc.

StereoNut · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 11:33 pm »

Thanks again to all those who have taken the time to post.

Afterimage, I appreciate the heads-up to the Cary on A'gon, but I'mnot really ready to "pull the trigger" on buying a new amp yet. Just kind of mulling it around for future reference. BTW - I am familiar with the Cary brand in name, but really haven't had the chance to listen to any of their products.

I may have said this in a post somewhere in between here that it's almost more important to find out how many tube watts are necessary to drive what my VR-4 Gen.III's will become once upgraded to SR Mk.4 status first and then start looking for tube integrateds that "fit" that parameter.

Who knows...??? I may need such a high powered tube amp to make a pair of SR Mk.4's "sing", that it would be so far beyond my eventual budget for such, that this thread becomes a moot point.

ceedee · « **Reply #16 on:** 10 Jun 2011, 06:30 am »

Hello Nuts,

How about a nice tube amp from KR Audio?

This little Baby can controle your VSA's and give you the music you like.

Regards,

Cor

es347 · « **Reply #17 on:** 10 Jun 2011, 12:08 pm »

..and the KR is also around $3K

O.D. Yeo · « **Reply #18 on:** 10 Jun 2011, 01:49 pm »

If you are willing to expand your options to include Hybrid amps, I am sure jackD can tell you more about how an LSA Standard integrated amp might match your speakers.

StereoNut · « **Reply #19 on:** 10 Jun 2011, 01:56 pm »

Quote from: es347 on 10 Jun 2011, 12:08 pm

..and the KR is also around $3K

Can you tell me what the model name/number is?

Thanks!