James: about my Bryston amp not sounding perfect unless on a long time?

Elizabeth · « **on:** 4 Jun 2011, 11:18 pm »

I wondered if anyone at bryston has investigated this stuff of sounding better after being on for many hours?
(Now it may just as well be the louspeakers crossovers, i cannot test for that with only one amp)
Anyway, I find that it takes a full day for the sound to be perfect, if i turn the amp off at night. i did post this, and I am just wondering if it is the capacitors? or something in the amp? that some Bryston guru has investigated?
The sound takes at least eight hours, and then blossoms really nicely.
Any notion of why?
I am (as I have mentioned) really super critical of the high frequency portion of the sound. And that portion is the key area that takes the long time to get right. And even more than a day it gets better. Just a smooth beautiful sound.
It is a mystery. My prior amp, A Forte4a was also like this. But not quite as much. (that is partly because i now have far more refined speakers in the high frequency area. maggie 3.6s.
I can turn off other parts and it takes awhile to get to be the best, just the amp takes so long.
Anyway, i just wondered if any Bryston sound gurus have a real answer.
My guess is capacitors. but that is just a guess.
Do they use the same brand and quality of capacitors for the 28B-SST2?
I think about changing the caps in my magnepans.. especially for the tweeter and midrange in my Maggies.. but it is a daunting expedition into the back of the speaker there...
I would leave the inductors as that is even further outer space adventure. It seems easy,, but the possible screw ups just make me hesitate.
Anyway, just curious.

Sasha · « **Reply #1 on:** 4 Jun 2011, 11:24 pm »

My bet is it is bias that wanders around after power up till working temperature is achieved.

jaxwired · « **Reply #2 on:** 5 Jun 2011, 01:53 am »

I have the same amp you have and I've never noticed the difference for that long. I do notice a difference for the first 20 minutes, but after that it sounds pretty steady and great. And I'm pretty sure that first 20 minutes is all in my imagination. You might consider that possibility yourself.

srb · « **Reply #3 on:** 5 Jun 2011, 01:58 am »

I've seen tube amps where the bias took 30 minutes to stabilize, but if a high quality solid state amp takes hours, something is amiss with it.

Steve

Elizabeth · « **Reply #4 on:** 5 Jun 2011, 02:49 am »

Quote

And I'm pretty sure that first 20 minutes is all in my imagination. You might consider that possibility yourself.

Not my imagination. As i mentioned i am big on high frequency perfection. ANd that is the area the amp/maggie takes eight hours to get to.
I have been into stereo stuff many years, and am certain of what i speak of.
The change is not in question at all. the sound is crappy for a little while, then it is decent, and only really blooms into the great sound i love after the long time, or just left on. period

Added: there are plenty of folks who can hear stuff in there system that i never do. The one i can think of right now is turning off all digital stuff when using an analog source. Now i do not hear that in my setup, however i would not be foolish enough to say they cannot 'really' be hearing a difference. When i have never seen nor heard thier setup.
And with all the stuff that is mentioned here by various folks, i would actually be more inclined to bet money that in fact if i heard thier setup, I could hear the differences they describe.
Even though I cannot hear that particular difference on mine.

James Tanner · « **Reply #5 on:** 5 Jun 2011, 02:56 am »

Quote from: Elizabeth on 5 Jun 2011, 02:49 am

Not my imagination. As i mentioned i am big on high frequency perfection. ANd that is the area the amp/maggie takes eight hours to get to.
I have been into stereo stuff many years, and am certain of what i speak of.
The change is not in question at all. the sound is crappy for a little while, then it is decent, and only really blooms into the great sound i love after the long time, or just left on. period

Hi,

I would say in most of my setups an hour or so is all thats needed - any chance the ribbon tweeter may be the issue?

james

Elizabeth · « **Reply #6 on:** 5 Jun 2011, 03:14 am »

The speakers may be the point of the changes.
I have noticed the effect slightly prior to my current setup, but never to this extent.
I would have to hook up some other speakers to the amp so it can stay on, and the Magnepans not powered, then swap them back quickly, to judge if it is the speakers, or not.
(I have other small speakers which could be put onthe amp to leave it on. the thing i would want to be able to turn off the amp and back on within a few seconds, so banana connections would be required, for speed.
I might be able to make up some just for the testing, but it (being my slow and lazy self) may take awhile, or not.
I have the banana connectors laying around. and some wire.
The current wires are bare ended at the amp, sticking bananas on them is not a problem, then adding a wire to the spare Canton CD300s no problem either. Just have to do it. Then it would be off at pre, switch off at amp. pull banana, stick in other banana , amp switch, pre switch back on is like under ten seconds.
So the test would see if the speakers are the problem being cold, and the amp was left on. Or if the sound is great, then the amp cold was the issue.
At least one other person said they noted something like this, so i do not feel so out there (in the other thread about this issue)
It is like trying to sail against the wind, in a 'Bryston is perfect how dare you speak against it' sort of way.

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #7 on:** 5 Jun 2011, 04:18 am »

Elizabeth,

I think you are a good listener. I don't own any Bryston gear but I believe that what you are describing is true for all audio equipment. Music gear always sounds better when it is left on all of the time.

My tube amplifiers sound very good to me after only a few minutes of warm up time, but they sound "just right" if they have been left on for a day or two. I don't always leave them on overnight though. One reason is because 300Bs are a little bit pricey, but the main reason is because I don't feel comfortable leaving the power amps on when I'm sleeping or not home. I know someone who has left his tube amp on for two years so I know that it's probably OK,,,, I just don't like to leave mine burning unattended. I don't know . . .

I do know that it's totally fine to leave my source components powered on,,,, pre-amps, phono stages and the like, and especially digital gear. Digital gear seems to benefit the most from 24/7 "on" time. Maybe that's because it doesn't offend as much when all of the chips and sand parts are settled into their temperature. Don't want to speculate why really, I just know that my DAC and transport sound like they have a cold if they have not been on for a day or two.

Speakers. Funny how they sound their best the more you use them, even if you have owned them for a long time. Go on vacation for a week and they seem to be all uptight and fidgety like they're mad at you for leaving. Cartridges too. Leave you cartridge idle for a while and you have to run it in all over again to get it to sound perfect.

Anyway, it doesn't sound like there's anything special about your Bryston Amp wanting to be on all of the time. It just sounds like you pay close attention to your system.

Now go spin another disc.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #8 on:** 5 Jun 2011, 05:05 am »

Thanks Quiet Earth, makes me feel better.
It is true i have noted it some in the past. My little Forte' 4a amp sounded best left on 24/7. And the new stuff, which is way closer to great sound, even more so.
Added; plenty of folks chiming in over on AA saying the same thing.
Thanks again.

Crimson · « **Reply #9 on:** 5 Jun 2011, 06:05 am »

Quote

Music gear always sounds better when it is left on all of the time.

Thats my take as well.

headshrinker2 · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Jun 2011, 02:23 am »

Hey Elizabeth,
My gear as well. This was also true with my Naim system. This topic comes up on the Naim forums all the time. Most folks over there tend to leave their stuff on...

vegasdave · « **Reply #11 on:** 6 Jun 2011, 01:21 pm »

I really haven't shut my gear off! The only time it was off is when I moved across town a year ago. So, minus those 1 or 2 days, it's been on for 4 years straight!

won ton on · « **Reply #12 on:** 6 Jun 2011, 02:32 pm »

i leave my bp-26 on all the time but shut off the 4bsst2.mine seems to sound fine within an hour. does anyone know how much power is drawn with only the breaker on ,on the back on if any

rollo · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Jun 2011, 03:44 pm »

Elizabeth have you ever demagnetized your system ?? I agree that leaving gear on 24/7 does in fact make all sound peachy. For tubed gear that is taking a risk for safety reasons besides the shorting of tube life as you know. I use all tubed components from CDP to amp. It takes an hour to sound right. However after say six hours it it even more disireable to me.
Using a Demag. disc or Gryphon Exorcist has reduced or eliminated the desire to leave n 24/7. The ayre/cardas CD IMO is the most affective tool we have used. Before every listening session a five minute track [7] does the trick.
With you on the top end. It has to be right for me to fully enjoy the presentation. BTW what size resistor if any do you use with the Maggies ? That Maggie ribbon is a tricky Devil. Try a Deuland or Mundorf non inductive resistorand be amazed, that sand resistor just has got to go.

charles

Elizabeth · « **Reply #14 on:** 6 Jun 2011, 03:50 pm »

Thanks Rollo.
I use the small coil tweak int he resistor gap.
I'll look into the resistors you mentioned.
I think i want to replace the caps in the mid and hf areas of the Magnepans.

Rupret · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 01:10 am »

This is actually true believe it or not. I don't know if it's the amps warming up, speakers warming up, or wax in my ears warming up but my system definitely sounds better after being up for a couple of hours.

DustyC · « **Reply #16 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 03:47 am »

My system sounds a little better after a few hours of warm up too.
I find that having a little vino before a listening session really speeds up the warming process!

headshrinker2 · « **Reply #17 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 01:52 pm »

Dusty,
How many minutes/hour of vino do you find to be the optimal warm up time?

Quote from: DustyC on 9 Jun 2011, 03:47 am

My system sounds a little better after a few hours of warm up too.
I find that having a little vino before a listening session really speeds up the warming process!

werd · « **Reply #18 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 03:24 pm »

Elizabeth

Try one of those XLO burn in cd's. I bet you it will warm up your gear in 5 min.

http://www.amazon.com/XLO-Reference-Test-Burn-Recordings/dp/B0000015AL

I have one but i don't use it. I leave my gear on all the time.

DustyC · « **Reply #19 on:** 10 Jun 2011, 01:12 am »

Quote from: headshrinker2 on 9 Jun 2011, 01:52 pm

Dusty,
How many minutes/hour of vino do you find to be the optimal warm up time?

If it's a great vintage? About 15 minutes. A screwtop cap? Well, maybe never.