Lambswool?

Marbles · « **on:** 6 Apr 2004, 02:58 am »

Brian, what did you think of the Lambswool for insulation behind the midrange and tweeters?

zybar · « **Reply #1 on:** 6 Apr 2004, 03:14 am »

Can we also get an update on the braces for the 40's?

Thanks,

George

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 Apr 2004, 06:36 pm »

Are any of these mods (wool, bracing, new tweeter, etc.) I keep reading about for the RM40's going to be implemented in future production pairs? Just curious.

Michael

Marbles · « **Reply #3 on:** 6 Apr 2004, 07:03 pm »

Quote from: mcrespo71

Are any of these mods (wool, bracing, new tweeter, etc.) I keep reading about for the RM40's going to be implemented in future production pairs? Just curious.

Michael

Additional bracing already has been implemented on the MLS and Dorn Dibble cabinets. FST Tweeter is an option so those two have already been taken care of.

I'm waiting to see if BC even likes the lambswool. I suspect if he does, it will be at the least an option...if he doesn't, I doubt it will be.

ekovalsky · « **Reply #4 on:** 6 Apr 2004, 09:24 pm »

I just installed the lambs wool into the RM/X. My forearms are killing me, after removing then reinstalling 48 wood screws. They strip easily so I didn't use a power driver.

A subsequent quick listen didn't reveal any dramatic change. There may be a bit more sharpness to the midrange but I need to listen more to confirm. I certainly didn't hear any change for the worse.

At Big B's suggestion, I ordered 4 lbs of material from Madisound. I only wound up using 1 lb per speaker (and it is stuffed in pretty good) so I have 2 lb extra. If anyone else here with RM/X or RM-40's was planning to upgrade let me know...

I did find a little "easter egg" in the right speaker -- a few big wood screws loose in the midrange subenclosure behind the fiberglass. Too bad it wasn't money or drugs

zybar · « **Reply #5 on:** 6 Apr 2004, 09:36 pm »

Interesting Eric...

I used about 1lb in each of 40's. Since your RM/X's are much bigger, is it possible that you didn't use enough? Or, I guess I used too much!

Anyway, I heard an immediate difference with the lambswool.

George

Marbles · « **Reply #6 on:** 6 Apr 2004, 09:51 pm »

Ditto as Zybar....

I used a non powered screwdriver on the first speaker, then my drill with phillips bit on all the rest of the speakers.

The handle of the screwdriver was a bit too small and I started to get blisters on my hand. I can just imagine how your arms must feel right now.

I heard an immeadiate change for the better. I do not know the size of the holes behind the RM/X's midrange, but I used about 1lb per RM40.

I do remember thinking that my 40's now must sound closer to the Elixer's. Maybe it doesn't help the Elixers as much do to the different shape of the baffle????

jgubman · « **Reply #7 on:** 6 Apr 2004, 10:02 pm »

I ordered 4 lbs and did my LRC over the weekend (was planing on doing LRC & RM-40s).

Like Eric, I didn't notice much of a change for either the better or worse. I tried to be really good about matching the amount of fiberglass.

John Casler · « **Reply #8 on:** 6 Apr 2004, 10:12 pm »

Quote from: zybar

Interesting Eric...

I used about 1lb in each of 40's. Since your RM/X's are much bigger, is it possible that you didn't use enough? Or, I guess I used too much!

Anyway, I heard an immediate difference with the lambswool.

George

Quote from: marbles

Ditto as Zybar....

I heard an immeadiate change for the better. I do not know the size of the holes behind the RM/X's midrange, but I used about 1lb per RM40.

I do remember thinking that my 40's now must sound closer to the Elixer's. Maybe it doesn't help the Elixers as much do to the different shape of the baffle????

Hi Guys,

Being the eternal "tweaker", I'm certainly interested in this...BUT...What are the specifics?

What specific differences did you hear?

What changed for the better?

And if I might impose even further, what software (Music) did you hear the difference on.

TIA

Marbles · « **Reply #9 on:** 6 Apr 2004, 10:22 pm »

Cleaner sound, better imaging.

LP right before and after stuffing was James Taylor's Greatest hits.

I then proceeded to play a lot of LP's that were in heavy rotation at the time..mainly Steely Dan and Dire Straits LPs. A Supertramp Greatest Hits CD as well.

ekovalsky · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Apr 2004, 10:51 pm »

Although the RM/X has two more midrange panels per side, the subenclosure volume is probably about the same. I assume the space behind the FST is "stuffable" ?? Obviously there is no tweeter taking up space on the front baffle of the RM/X. Also, the midrange subenclosure is very narrow, just barely wider than the drivers themselves. I seem to remember it being a bit wider on the RM-40 but not certain.

I put enough wool in to stuff the area full but not so much that it was protruding out through the cutouts in the baffle for the drivers.

The wool sure is a nicer thing to work with than fiberglass, it felt good touching the virgin lamb

Quote from: zybar

Interesting Eric...

I used about 1lb in each of 40's. Since your RM/X's are much bigger, is it possible that you didn't use enough? Or, I guess I used too much!

Anyway, I heard an immediate difference with the lambswool.

George

audiochef · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Apr 2004, 12:19 am »

The sound is suble ,but surely notable. Could just be the over hype thats been stated us, so there may be an anticlimax for yoy others.
Surely you must at least notice the reduction in brightness.
Extreme highs and mid to lower base is more articilate .

ekovalsky · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Apr 2004, 01:03 am »

Quote from: audiochef

The sound is suble ,but surely notable. Could just be the over hype thats been stated us, so there may be an anticlimax for yoy others.
Surely you must at least notice the reduction in brightness.
Extreme highs and mid to lower base is more articilate .

Above 7khz the lambs wool won't make a difference in the RM/X since the tweeter is separated from the midrange subenclosure, and I'm not too interested in disassembling the pod

Ric Schultz · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Apr 2004, 01:07 am »

The first person (besides myself) to try the wool behind his midranges in his RM-2s (loved the difference) asked me about Deflex material. I said, I had only heard good things about it, so he ordered a bunch from Michael Percy and installed it after removing the wool.....He said it was much better than the wool which was much better than the fiberglass. Deflex is much more expensive than wool, has to be cut to size and glued to the cabinet walls.....but, my friend/customer says it is better. I doubt better than mounting on open baffle, which I have done and sounds much better than the midrange in the box with wool behind it.

Brian,
Here is another mod you can try on your speakers. You wire the midrange and tweeter return wires from the drivers back to the ground post on the pots......this is a no, no. Please try a separate longer wire from the panels directly back to the negative binding post and leave the short wire from the pot in place. This way, there are shorter signal paths from the drivers and also the current from the pad is not interfering with the current flow from the midrange/tweets (star grounding essentially).....this results in cleaner sound. Subtle but very noticeable, at least on my seriously clean system. Can only cost you about 40 cents in wire but, obviously, makes soldering all those wires to the negative post harder.

Marbles · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 Apr 2004, 01:36 am »

Ric, one of the reasons (I'm guessing) for the large RM40 cabinet is for the bass response. How are you going to design the bass section of your speaker?

In fact, do you have any sketches or descriptions of your speaker you could share with us?

TIA

audiochef · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 Apr 2004, 02:38 am »

Ekovalsky,

I too have fsts, what I meant in reduction in brightness is in the mid panels.

I beieve this reduction in (overhang) , the better absorbtion of the back wave is the reason to the better clarity that is very evident to me.

By the way ,I used vinal daming sheets as gaskets between mid panels.
Their only about 1 millimeter thick . now perfectly flush with cabinets. the results to me are another step up. vacols are awsome!

Marbles · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Apr 2004, 02:46 am »

Quote from: audiochef

Ekovalsky,

I too have fsts, what I meant in reduction in brightness is in the mid panels.

I beieve this reduction in (overhang) , the better absorbtion of the back wave is the reason to the better clarity that is very evident to me.

By the way ,I used vinal daming sheets as gaskets between mid panels.
Their only about 1 millimeter thick . now perfectly flush with cabinets. the results to me are another step up. vacols are awsome!

I used double sided window insulation tape..3/16ths" thick x 1/4" wide around each midrange panel. This was done months prior to the lambswool. This raised my midrange panels flush with the cabinet and also provided a nice seal to the cabinet as well as isolating them from vibrations.

BTW, my RM30 came with the midrange panels flush with the baffle.

audiochef · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 Apr 2004, 03:08 am »

Marbles,

did you find any improvements after this was done?

Marbles · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Apr 2004, 03:13 am »

Couldn't tell because I also had another tweak done at the same time.

It seems that the wires from the XO's to the panels were soldered onto the bolts of the panels and not onto solder lugs like they do now.

I had a friend add the lugs and I soldered the wires directly to these.

I only had the speakers a VERY short time when this took place and I also had a bad FST that was replaced by BC the day after I put the midranges back in.

Long story short I couldn't tell what was responisible for any change in the sound at that time.

Ric Schultz · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 Apr 2004, 08:45 pm »

Marbles,
Since I will be using a separate amp and equalizer (behringer) on the bass the cabinet dimensions are not as important. I will tying passive radiator, sealed and ported....whatever sounds best with my electronics/room. Both woofers will be in a cabinet about half the volume of the RM-40. Equalization works fine as long as you don't play too dang loud. If you want 120db monster stomps then you had better use a lot of woofer area. Two 10 inch woofers are fine equalized flat to about 20hz if you only play music at 100db or less (my situation). When the speaker is finished/tweaked/working great I will have pictures and description on my website. I do expect it to be quite wonderful.