[Duke]

Who is getting hurt by sharing software on a speaker no longer being manufactured?  All he is doing is equalizing the drivers....anyone with a brain can do the same thing with a Behringer.  Just easier to have a place to start from.

There is only one law worth abiding by......that is the law of LOVE.  If it hurts no one....it is probably a groovy thing.  If it hurts one person....then maybe you should think before acting.

Maybe I don't know much about LOVE with all capital letters, but I do have an opinion about the ethics of giving away a designer's crossover design without his permission.

[Ric Schultz]

I respect your opinion, whatever it is.  However, ethics is very debatable.  I requote the law of Love.   "If it hurts no one it is probably groovy!"  If I had one of your speakers and a friend wanted to make his own, I would share your crossover with him...and/or....If you had one of my modded behringers and a friend of yours wanted to know what I was doing, I think it would be groovy for you to tell him.  Obviously, with the intention of personal use only and not using it for monetary gain nor putting the circuits on the web.  Who gets HURT by this?  Do you feel hurt if someone uses your information without your knowledge/permission?  I hope not.  Why would you want to feel hurt?  I want to feel love.  As long as someone can use my information without it hurting me financially then.....why not?....go for it!  Love is the Law!  I want you all to be happy! 

[JohnR]

Wow. That's truly... despicable. Because YOU think "no-one is hurt" then it's OK? Never mind legality, ethics, or just plain respect for the work of others.

[Ric Schultz]

I respect everyone.  However, there is nothing illegal about sharing crossover designs with friends.  And ethics....well.  My ethic is Love.  Who is getting HURT? 

[JDUBS]

Why not just shoot Clayton a quick email to see if he is cool with sharing the Behringer programming?  Takes < a minute.

-Jim

[JohnR]

i.e. ask permission? What a novel concept.

[Ric Schultz]

If you have a problem sharing or receiving information then don't do it.  I have no problem sharing or receiving.   

If you don't want to use the original EP program then just set the xover to 1000 cycles, 48db per octave and equalize the speaker for flat response (assuming you are using all the original drivers and waveguides).  This is all Clayton did.....period.  Nothing proprietary there, folks.....or patentable or whatever.  Enjoy!

Please don't ever ask me if you can use any information you get from me or my website or my products for your own enjoyment.  Just do it. 

I will be sharing every tiny bit of information about my upcoming speakers with everyone so that those that want to roll there own can do so knowing they have all the right info.  DIYers are a small group.  They can never take away from normal earnings with a seriously marketed product.  The sharings of a few DIYers is really nothing in the monetary swing of things.  However, I love DIY, I love experimenting and I love how inexpensive and incredible things can be done when you do them yourself. 

[JohnR]

I will be sharing every tiny bit of information about my upcoming speakers with everyone so that those that want to roll there own can do so knowing they have all the right info.

If it's on this site, and assuming that your cavalier attitude to others' intellectual property doesn't require me to stop you from posting here, please do it only in the appropriate commercial areas, not here in the non-commercial section. Thanks.

[Ric Schultz]

All the speaker super details will be right on my website.  I will post a basic info thing in the industry ads section.

[Duke]

I requote the law of Love.   "If it hurts no one it is probably groovy!"  If I had one of your speakers and a friend wanted to make his own, I would share your crossover with him...

Thanks for the warning.

Obviously you don't care whether giving away my crossover hurts me or not, so you are a liar too.  You do not even live up to your own low standard.

Besides stealing intellectual property in order to score points with your friends, what other dishonest and unethical behavior do you rationalize away in the name of your so-called "law of Love"? 

[Ric Schultz]

We tend to take things so seriously that mean so little.  What is even intellectual property or does it even exist, is open to vast debate.  In fact, the egos demand for ownership of anything is really funny.  We exist to experience more and more of the perfection of the love of God/people and life.  We do not own anything.  We are stewards of life.  The ideas that come through you and me are not ours.  They are for the benefit of all life.  We are not our bodies, not our emotions, not our thoughts, not our possessions.  From the point of view of eternal infinite spirit......intellectual property seems quite silly. 

We all choose to be hurt or be whole/happy at any moment.  If you are hurt because someone gives some information about your secret speaker design to someone else (which I have never done) then I would say to you to "get an altitude on your attitude".......it is not really very important in the grand scheme of things. 

This is a very touchy subject for some.  I think that intellectual property is just another illusion of the ego.  Others guard their thoughts and information as if it is seriously important and their identity as a person depends on it.  If I am attached to my thoughts, feelings and things and feel that they are mine and only my own, then when they are shared or used by someone else then I come down.  I still do this.  I don't like the feeling.  So, more and more I detach from identifying with thoughts, feelings and things, so I can be more and more happy.  Happiness is really just the state of being without judgement......without resistance and without fighting.....it is a letting go, it is peace/silence.  If someone uses someone elses private/secret personal information to their financial advantage to the detriment of the person, then Karma will insue (Karma, the law of love, the law of attraction are all the same).  If there is no personal financial loss to the person then any other form of "Hurt" is just the experience the ego experiences with any attachment.  This is what the human game is all about......letting go of things that don't really matter in order to feel the greater Love that exists every second.  I wish you that greater feeling.  I really do.  It does exist every moment....but we do have to stop taking ourselves and our identity with our thoughts and mind so seriously to feel it. 

Anotherwords, why would you want to feel hurt if someone shares your "secret" information with someone else.....when you could be enjoying the eternal bliss of this moment....this very moment you are reading this.....bliss exists....love exists....joy exists...please experience this....please experience this as much as possible.  This is my prayer for you and all people.  Life is beautiful.

I do feel compassion for people who take their mind and thoughts seriously.  I have done so....too dang much. I know the suffering it brings.  More and more as I grow older I let go quicker and faster because I know I could leave this body at any time.  I want to live each moment the best I can.  We are all testing ourselves....over and over.  Do we think we are special and separate?  If we do then we will suffer.  We are all connected in the joy of our hearts....

I thought I gave sermons on Sunday.....well, I guess everyday is the day of Sun....I now return you to your station of Alphas meeting CDs.  Thank you all for attending and put some love in the donation basket.  Can we have some fun here?

[Duke]

We tend to take things so seriously that mean so little.  What is even intellectual property or does it even exist, is open to vast debate.  In fact, the egos demand for ownership of anything is really funny.  We exist to experience more and more of the perfection of the love of God/people and life.  We do not own anything.  We are stewards of life.  The ideas that come through you and me are not ours.  They are for the benefit of all life.  We are not our bodies, not our emotions, not our thoughts, not our possessions.  From the point of view of eternal infinite spirit......intellectual property seems quite silly. 

We all choose to be hurt or be whole/happy at any moment.  If you are hurt because someone gives some information about your secret speaker design to someone else (which I have never done) then I would say to you to "get an altitude on your attitude".......it is not really very important in the grand scheme of things. 

This is a very touchy subject for some.  I think that intellectual property is just another illusion of the ego.  Others guard their thoughts and information as if it is seriously important and their identity as a person depends on it.  If I am attached to my thoughts, feelings and things and feel that they are mine and only my own, then when they are shared or used by someone else then I come down.  I still do this.  I don't like the feeling.  So, more and more I detach from identifying with thoughts, feelings and things, so I can be more and more happy.  Happiness is really just the state of being without judgement......without resistance and without fighting.....it is a letting go, it is peace/silence.  If someone uses someone elses private/secret personal information to their financial advantage to the detriment of the person, then Karma will insue (Karma, the law of love, the law of attraction are all the same).  If there is no personal financial loss to the person then any other form of "Hurt" is just the experience the ego experiences with any attachment.  This is what the human game is all about......letting go of things that don't really matter in order to feel the greater Love that exists every second.  I wish you that greater feeling.  I really do.  It does exist every moment....but we do have to stop taking ourselves and our identity with our thoughts and mind so seriously to feel it. 

Anotherwords, why would you want to feel hurt if someone shares your "secret" information with someone else.....when you could be enjoying the eternal bliss of this moment....this very moment you are reading this.....bliss exists....love exists....joy exists...please experience this....please experience this as much as possible.  This is my prayer for you and all people.  Life is beautiful.

I do feel compassion for people who take their mind and thoughts seriously.  I have done so....too dang much. I know the suffering it brings.  More and more as I grow older I let go quicker and faster because I know I could leave this body at any time.  I want to live each moment the best I can.  We are all testing ourselves....over and over.  Do we think we are special and separate?  If we do then we will suffer.  We are all connected in the joy of our hearts....

I thought I gave sermons on Sunday.....well, I guess everyday is the day of Sun....I now return you to your station of Alphas meeting CDs.  Thank you all for attending and put some love in the donation basket.

So now you're going to judge me, feel compassion for me, and still rationalize away stealing my intellectual property?

You hypocrite.

Tell me what church you preach at.  You seem to place no value on my work and livelihood, so I'd like to take a look at yours.

[JohnR]

Ric: there is no question about whether intellectual property exists. Because of its nature, there are grey areas, but I really don't think that your self-righteous rationalisations for theft stand up to any reasonable examination in the context of the real world. People spend money on developing their intellectual property, and are entitled to earn money back from it as a result. And while they are entitled to give it away too, that is their choice, not yours.

[Ric Schultz]

I never stole your "intellectual information", if such a thing even exists.  You seem to want to fight.....you are not hearing the essence of what I said.  Please find peace now....it does exist.  I do value your work and livelihood.  I never said otherwise.  But your "intellectual information"....is just a bunch of noise in your head.  Please listen with your heart.  I preach in the now....the only church that exists.  You preach/share your truth there too.  Try reading my posts on this forum and others and listen with your heart to what I have always shared.  I share with love.  I want everyone to win!  I share my knowledge freely with all. I love you very much, believe it or not.  I have always thought you were one of the sweethearts on the forums.  I sing you a song of love!   

[Ric Schultz]

John,
I have a different perspective than you.  Simple as that.  I really don't believe that "intellectual property" is real.  There is only one being, one real thing....God/Love.  So all information belongs to him/her.  "Imagine no possessions, I wonder if you can".....This is my belief.  Now in the other "normal/real" world.......in the judgement of human kind....well, there are all kinds of beliefs.  I respect your belief and I hope you can respect mine.  I would never use anyones "secret intellectual information" to the financial detriment of the person....this is a no no.  It would bring "bad Karma".....on me!

Can we get back to speakers?

[JohnR]

Hey, I can tell you what I think, which is that wishy-washy-ing the intellectual property issue into one merely of "a different perspective" is a cop-out, and a cheap one at that. Apart from the legality of copying and then giving away someone else's crossover design, what about plain old fairness and respect? No wonder Duke is upset - you specifically stated that you would copy and give away his design if you had one of his speakers.

As far as the pair of Alphas on what was once an Emerald Physics speaker, anyone can just measure and EQ using whichever DSP they want to use. Perhaps that question would be better served with some guidance on how to go about that.

Let me start:

1. Get some measurement capability. You will need a calibrated microphone and a reasonable mic preamp/soundcard. USB units are not terribly expensive.

[Duke]

I never stole your "intellectual information", if such a thing even exists. 

I never said that you did steal my intellectual property.  You're not that stupid Ric, so don't put words in my mouth and then argue against them.  That is intellectual dishonesty. 

It seems that you have no respect for others, as shown by your insistence that your opinion about intellectual property is the only one that matters, which opinion conveniently justifies stealing what someone else created - and that is exactly what you said you would do to me if given the chance.

Using religion to justify taking something that doesn't belong to you is quite disturbing.  Your religion has failed to provide you with a basic moral compass.  And if you had one of your own, it has seduced you into abandoning it.  But the responsibility is yours, not your religion's - you went along willingly.   

Speaking of religion, nice evasion there when I asked you what church you preach at.  Is there any question that you would answer honestly and forthrightly?  Or was your claim of preaching sermons on Sunday another lie?

Please find peace now....it does exist...  I share with love... I love you very much, believe it or not.  I have always thought you were one of the sweethearts on the forums.  I sing you a song of love!   

Of course you want peace.  Sucking up won't buy it.  Try this instead:  Stop promoting the theft of intellectual property, mine or Clayton's or anyone else's.

[Duke]

I would never use anyones "secret intellectual information" to the financial detriment of the person.

Liar.

If I had one of your speakers and a friend wanted to make his own, I would share your crossover with him.

[Ric Schultz]

The "preaching on Sunday" was meant to be a joke!  Lighten up!

If I ever share any information about something from someone, it is to benefit that person without any loss from someone else.  Most DIYers are either not very rich or just like to build stuff....or are cheap.  In any case, they would not ever buy the standard product....so there is no loss.  A person who makes his own stuff rarely buys anything stock.  Even if information on some product reached a competing company (which happens quite often).....most of the time the information is never used because most designers think they know best....they would say something like..."very clever design but I can do better".  I have worked for other companies and have hand fed them really good information and they still don't want to use it.   

Your opinion is as valid as anyones.  I never said otherwise.  I just have a different perspective.  I don't believe in the ownership of ideas, things or people.  I do believe we have a right to patent and copyright information for the benefit of feeding ourselves.  However, the real "ownership" of these ideas is an illusion.  We all come from the Mother, and to her we all return.  Did you thank God/Goddess for the information that you receive?  It is not yours.  This is what I believe.  I do not believe in the ownership of Intellectual Information/Property.  So, I cannot steal something that does not exist.  If it exists for you then fine.  But I hope it is not your dying breath.  Do you want your tombstone to read....."died happy knowing he still had all his intellectual property"?   Every moment could be our last.  Please be happy.

Since "Intellectual Property" is valued so highly among designers and DIYers it is best I never talk about it here again, nor suggest anyone else ever use anyones information, ever.  You can use my information, however.   

I have said everything that I think (so, unless you ask me a direct question, I have nothing more to say) and it is  time to get back to speaker building fun.

Yes, a calibrated mic and whatever software or hardware you need to measure is a start (I have both a Behringer DEQ24/96 with its calibrated mic and also a classic Audio control bouncing ball one third octave analyzer with its calibrated mic). There are now tons of relatively inexpensive measurement tools to be used with a computer that give all kinds of things like pulse tests and decay measrements, etc.  Very exciting time for the DIYer. 

You can simply use pink noise and measure the speaker and compensate in the Behringer by using the eqs.  The Behringer is not that easy to use and takes quite a few hours to master.  You set one eq and it changes the other ones slightly....so you have to keep measureing and keep re-tweaking.  You must delay the CD for time alignment.  Set it first for the approximate distance between the woofer voice coil and the CD voice coil.  Then do the eq to the speaker and then go back and fine tune the delay. With patience you can make your speaker darn flat and in phase.....and when you hear the thing this way, it will be mind blowing.  No more mud, super clear sound.

[Duke]

Ric, your philosophy seeks to rationalize immoral and insane behavior - taking that which does not belong to you, which someone else worked very hard to create or earn.  Since you do not believe in ownership of things, I'd really like to know where you draw the line.

Is there anything you would not steal if you thought you could get away with it?   

Yeah I know - it's not stealing because nobody owns it, or it doesn't exist.