Suggestions needed: Upgrade from Blue Point Special

thunderbrick · « **on:** 23 May 2011, 02:43 am »

OK, i keep talking about finally getting my man cave finished, and since Scott F tuned up my TT, I've barely listened to a CD!

Anyway, I have an upgraded SOTA Sapphire TT with an ET2 air-bearing arm, Rogue 66 pre, Maggie 1.6s driven by a Moscode 300 amp in a 22x26x10 room. Celtic, classical, folk, classic rock, show tunes and soundtracks for starters.

Everything is great but for a slight high-freq harshness that seems common for the Blue Point Special. Any suggestions for a ~$500 (or less) cart, new or used? Will be ready to pull the trigger on it later in the summer.

All ideas are welcome!

Thanks!

Bob

dlaloum · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 May 2011, 03:14 pm »

hmmm HF harshness....

Presumably you are seeking a high compliance cartridge - as that would I assume be the best match for that arm...? (serious question as I am not familiar with it)

Does the arm have the optional damping system? (helps a lot with tracking!)

So you are looking for something that a) Tracks better, and b) has lower distortion at HF

My solution for that would be higher compliance and MicroLine / MicroRidge stylus on a fine high quality cantilever (boron / Beryllium / Ruby / Saphire).

Assuming that the arm works well with high compliance designs (the ET website mentions a lightweight and a heavyweight arm - don't know which you have...)....

You could look at:

AT150MLx
Soundsmith SMMC1 or SMMC2
Nagaoka MP50 / MP500

Or an old V15VMR cartridge body fitted with a new Jico SAS stylus

Actually any of the following bodies fitted with a Jico SAS would be interesting:
Technics 205/206/207
JVC Z1/X1
Shure V15 (III, IV or V)

(ie pick a really well designed generator and fit a really top stylus to it...)

In general (and this is of course a sweeping generalisation) top MM/MI's track better than MC's

Also I am pointing you at MicroLine/MicroRidge stylus designs as the narrower side radius reduces HF distortion. - They are also more finicky of alignment - but with a linear tracker you should have far fewer alignment issues....

Just some thoughts

bye for now

David

rollo · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 May 2011, 04:20 pm »

Well what cured my ills off high frquency harshness is the Goldnote Boboli Mk2 HOMC [2mv] Used a Linn Arkiv for years not any longer. Lest not forget Ortofon 7N cart. leads [$50]

charles

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 May 2011, 05:52 pm »

You could possibly find a used or rebuilt Benz Glider for under $500. I've never felt mine (M2 though, not Glider) to be harsh in the highs.

Nels Ferre · « **Reply #4 on:** 23 May 2011, 05:55 pm »

The Zu DL-103 sounds perfect for you, assuming your arm can handle a cart that weighs 14.5 grams. It is a low output MC, so you would need a step oup transformer.

Indiansprings · « **Reply #5 on:** 23 May 2011, 06:24 pm »

Dennon 103R might be the ticket

Scott F. · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 May 2011, 07:19 pm »

Hiya Bob,

For under $500 you should be able to find a gently used Dynavector 20XH. I'm a big fan of the Microridge, microline, fineline, line contact (however you wish to term it) stylus profile. That profile tends to dig deeper and have cleaner highs than the others I've played with (at least with my ears, in my system, on my table, on my arm, with my phono stage, yada yada, YMMV, my $.02, etc.).

Next time you make it up to the city, stop by and you can borrow mine. I've been running my low outputs for quite a while so the 20XH could use a little exercise.

That will give you an idea how it will perform on your table.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 May 2011, 08:13 pm »

Dyna currently on agon:

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?anlgcart&1306460694

SET Man · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 May 2011, 09:46 pm »

Hey!

I've used Blue Point, Blue Point Special and Blue Point Special EVO III. Than I mad a leap of faith and got a Benz Micro "ACE" High Output and this was the first version of the ACE back in early '07.

Let's just say after settling on the cart loading it was like night and day between the BPS EVO III and the ACE. The BPS EVO III sounds flatter, a bit thin and can be a bit sizzling on top sometime. The ACE track superbly, I hear detail that I've never noticed before with the BPS, well everything is just much better overall. And yet the ACE is more musical or should I say more neutral overall.

Don't know how it will match with your arm of which I'm don't know of. But on my old Rega RB250 and my current arm SME 3009 II Improved the ACE work just fine.

Unfortunately the current price of the current version of the ACE is over your budget. But if you can stretch it do put the ACE on you list. Well, you do have to live with it for a while right?

Anyway, good luck on your search and keep us posted on how it turn out.

Take care,
Buddy

jtsnead · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 May 2011, 10:50 pm »

You can get the top of the line Denon Dl-S1 from comet supply for $508.00,
you might have to wait a few weeks but getting a 1K cartridge for half price
is worth it. I have one on order so can not comment on sound though it has
gotten some good responces on Vinyl Asylum.

thunderbrick · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 May 2011, 01:20 am »

Quote from: Scott F. on 23 May 2011, 07:19 pm

Hiya Bob,

For under $500 you should be able to find a gently used Dynavector 20XH. I'm a big fan of the Microridge, microline, fineline, line contact (however you wish to term it) stylus profile. That profile tends to dig deeper and have cleaner highs than the others I've played with (at least with my ears, in my system, on my table, on my arm, with my phono stage, yada yada, YMMV, my $.02, etc.).

Next time you make it up to the city, stop by and you can borrow mine. I've been running my low outputs for quite a while so the 20XH could use a little exercise. That will give you an idea how it will perform on your table.

Scott, I'd love to take you up on that offer! Since it is your cartridge would you do me the honor of setting it up in my arm? I'd hate to wreck your cartridge by screwing up the install.

I've also got that early RCA stereo demo box set for you to give a listen!

Scott F. · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 May 2011, 02:28 am »

Quote from: thunderbrick on 24 May 2011, 01:20 am

Scott, I'd love to take you up on that offer! Since it is your cartridge would you do me the honor of setting it up in my arm? I'd hate to wreck your cartridge by screwing up the install.

I've also got that early RCA stereo demo box set for you to give a listen!

We can do that, just let me know when

I still don't have my main listening room put back together yet though

thunderbrick · « **Reply #12 on:** 24 May 2011, 03:09 am »

Cool! You gonna be around this weekend? I have my hands full but I might find my way up there.

Scott F. · « **Reply #13 on:** 24 May 2011, 12:00 pm »

I'm trying to take off Friday but I'm not sure if that's going to actually happen. We've got a graduation party Saturday afternoon and evening. I'm pretty sure Sunday and Monday are open.

I'll stop off at Steve K's and pick up my Feikert alignment tools and also make sure my Cartridge man scale is charged.

Best bet is to give me a call later this week once you know which day you are thinking about just to make sure we're around.

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 May 2011, 03:00 pm »

Quote from: thunderbrick on 23 May 2011, 02:43 am

Everything is great but for a slight high-freq harshness that seems common for the Blue Point Special.

Maybe true, but here are a couple of thoughts that won't cost you anything ....

How many hours of play time do you have on your cartridge? When my Sumiko Blackbird was new it took a long time for the brightness to settle down. It's still a bright spirited cartridge, but it doesn't sound aggressive to me anymore. Sometimes I will go several weeks without spinning a record. When that happens, I find that I need to play a few LP sides to get the cartridge back into its relaxed, non agressive zone.

You sound like you don't want to fiddle around with the hassles of setting up a cartridge. I can certainly understand that (if that's true.) I suggest strongly that you gradually learn how to take it all apart and put it back together so you can make the necessary adjustments to get the most out of your deck. Once you learn how your table/arm/cartridge works together, then you can make the little adjustments that allow you to make it brighter or darker or whatever. If you already know this, please disregard.

Leave your phono stage on. If your phono stage is inside your main pre-amp then leave your pre-amp on. Don't ever turn it off, just turn the volume all the way down when your done for the day. It won't wear out any quicker than if you turn it off and on all the time, but it will sure sound a lot better.

thunderbrick · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 May 2011, 04:02 pm »

I appreciate those suggestions. I love the detail of the BPS and it is certainly not new. I bought it new about 15 years old, maybe older, and had very light use before the TT was essentially retired for 10 years. I have replaced the motor myself and had SOTA redo the bearings, but Scott F found the Eminent Technology arm base wouldn't line up properly on the factory-laminated arm board, so he offset the cart to compensate for it. Sounds gorgeous but a pretty thin on applause (Belafonte at Carnegie Hall) and massed vocals (Les Miserables). Been changing the toe-in on the speakers as well.

Since I'll be heading to Scott's soon I may just tear the entire arm and board apart to see if we can resolve the issue.

When you say "leave the phono pre on all the time" I can certainly do that. I also wonder about eventually moving up to a nicer phono pre from the Pro-Ject II, but that will have to be incremental due to budget issues. The Pro-Ject II is amazing for the price!

I spent maybe 8 hours on Sunday playing LPs and it was hard to say if it settled down any, but that's a good suggestion.

Thanks!

DaveyW · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 May 2011, 07:19 pm »

Quote from: jtsnead on 23 May 2011, 10:50 pm

You can get the top of the line Denon Dl-S1 from comet supply for $508.00,
you might have to wait a few weeks but getting a 1K cartridge for half price
is worth it. I have one on order so can not comment on sound though it has
gotten some good responces on Vinyl Asylum.

I'm still very much enjoying mine

But Scotts offer would be very tempting.
The DV 20XH is also a very nice cart and quite similar in character to the Denon.
I found mine came alive at 1k ohm loading - more body and presence.
Give it a whirl Thunderbrick and see how you get on - I very much doubt you'll have any concerns re. the top end.
Cheers
Dave

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 May 2011, 07:30 pm »

Quote from: jtsnead on 23 May 2011, 10:50 pm

You can get the top of the line Denon Dl-S1 from comet supply for $508.00,
you might have to wait a few weeks but getting a 1K cartridge for half price
is worth it.

I have to wonder how a company can retail a cartridge for less than it's dealer cost. Makes me awfully suspicious.

Scott F. · « **Reply #18 on:** 31 May 2011, 03:01 am »

So Bob, did you find anything good at Vintage Vinyl?

thunderbrick · « **Reply #19 on:** 31 May 2011, 03:14 am »

Never made it there. Tried Euclid Records and they didn't have what I was looking for, and yes, the prices were high, but I'd pay it for an item I'm looking for. They had the Classics version of Casino Royale that was tempting, but I was tired and didn't want to shell out $35 w/tax.

Oh, and the Dynavector..................?

WOW! Holy crap!

Smoother, less surface noise, more bass and better imaging. I'll have to try it on a lot of LPs and redial my ears back in!

Thanks SO much!

Bob

Edit: I may have to remove the HF resistors from my Maggies now.

Edit #2: My toes haven't stopped tapping since I started listening to the Dynavector. That hasn't happened in a LONG time!