[DaveyW]

This topic was touched upon in the recent "Vinyl Newbie about Priorities" posts.

The art of spotting the good, the bad and the risky in the world of used vinyl really deserves a thread of it's own.

This was my original quick snippet;

If it looks clean but the vinyl is a little dull then it generally sounds dull, probably played on a poor rig in the past - I keep away.
Look for "spider" marks around the spindle hole - lots of these tend to indicate many plays - Again I tend to avoid unless it's a long yearned for item or very well priced.
Obvious one is avoid anything that is visibly scratched, regardless of how minor they might appear - generally even the slightest of scratches causes pops.
Finally - don't be too frightened of dirty discs that are scratch free - this tends to happen if they have been sitting around for a long while, many of which may be unplayed. These can be cleaned - check out the many threads on this (my method is identified in my web page).

Followed by Elizabeth's excellent response;

Two comments about vinyl that looks dull. Some vinyl IS dull looking as made. The biggest all the time dull is Telefunken. Various other LP manufacturers used a dull looking vinyl formulation.
Then the opposite problem: LPs that are really 'shiney'. They have been treated with a silicone tire shine or such, and are atificially shined up. They are easy to spot once you know what they look like, as they are just too shiney!
IMO the sort of dull to watch out  for is the uneven ones. where the innertracks are dulller than the outer ones. THOSE are the worrn out records.
 Also watch out for DJ damaged LPs. Those have a single couple of inches of groove scratched up. Like used by the DJs 'scratching' back and forth. Plenty of those at some used places. (some used places will not even have any like that, as they do not buy them, or discard them from collections they buy.)

Trying to determine if a record has been damaged during play back is probably the most difficult thing to spot and the riskiest element of buying used.

I've a few that look fine but something isn't right - typically veiled, muffled or dull.
In most cases I've gone on to buy much better examples (of the same pressing) - so play back damage was the most likely culprit.

To expand a little on my initial comments;
For me anyway, determining if a record is actually damaged by visual inspection only is pretty much impossible, certainly in the confines of a buying environment.  So I try and focus on minimizing the risk.
With regards to dull discs, I tend to compare the lead in/out with the grooves - the bigger the difference the more wary I am.
As I say it's still not an easy call to make, so at the same time I factor in a number of other considerations. The following tend to indicate to me poorly cared for vinyl;
 - Extensive Spider marks around the spindle hole
 - Dirty or damaged liners
 - Finger prints (or worse) on the playing surface

Typically (not always) poorly cared for vinyl has probably been played on a sub standard rig.

I weigh up the whole picture before making a decision.

If they're well priced then sometimes it's worth a punt, a good clean may restore back to former glory.
I've had some winners and losers on this front.

Would be very interested to get more perspectives on approaches when buying used at stores/fairs.

Cheers
Dave

[neobop]

Some good advice above. Often a record will be covered in dust and it gets hard to figure out what's actually going on underneath. To differentiate a scuff from a scratch, gently rub your forefinger back and forth over the surface. You'll feel a scratch. If you can't feel anything it's not a guarantee that it's not noisy, but it's probably not a scratch. Many times you just can't tell if a record will ultimately be acceptable.

I've had records that had a spot where the needle got stuck and kept repeating. To fix, locate that spot by seeing the position relative to the label. Put the record on a mat and find the obstruction with magnification. Sometimes cleaning solution will loosen it. Sometimes you have to remove surgically. There will usually be a pop at that spot, but it will play. Some records are nearly impossible to find, and you might want to keep it.

neo

[orthobiz]

1. Evidence of being stored flat. Can promote warpage.
2. A super strong musty smell.
3. A totally worn inner sleeve or worse...no inner sleeve!
4. Totally worn outer sleeve.
5. Inner sleeve lined up with outer sleeve, especially when the record falls out as you pick it up!
6. An old plastic arm Garrard turntable with a broken osmium stylus and a quarter taped to the arm for sale right next to the records!

But
And it's a big but

Sometimes the absolute worst looking records clean up and play fine!

Paul

[Jlappy]

6. An old plastic arm Garrard turntable with a broken osmium stylus and a quarter taped to the arm for sale right next to the records!

  I think I have been to that place also, yet bought something 

Great advice so far!  Dave great thread - thanks.   

Geographically, I am not able to frequent as many used shops as I'd like (I'm sure my wife appreciates that too).  For me buying vinyl is about building good relationships and the 'good' places (record stores) I have bought from in the last year or so (after getting back into vinyl) have offered guarantees on the lps they are rating as vg++ with a friendly return policy. Even though I am a fairly introverted guy I strike up conversations with the owners when I can and have gotten a few deals that way.  Maybe that has only been my limited experience though. 

Budget bins are budget and I don't mind 'rolling dice' for a $1-2 (1 £ or 1 €, for our friends across the pond  ).  Sound advice Neo on the use of the forefinger, and I too have removed debris 'surgically.'   Though my dusty budget lps (if there is a haul of 6 or more) will find their way to the kitchen sink.   

Now I just thought of this, has anyone brought along a carbon brush with them when they I have gone budget buying? 

cheers,  Jim

[Wayner]

There are some major defects that can't be detected in the used record store. They are offset spindle hole, overheated vinyl at pressing, which results in the "popcorn" effect, and the ever evil warp, although, gross warps are detectable if you place the record on a flat surface.

In general, the shape of the outer cover is usually an indication of the previous record owner's behavior. A warn cover and perhaps a crumpled up inner sleeve, tend to also produce a dirty record with lots of scratches.

The rule I go by is to take your time trying to find that used treasure. I've had to put down some classics that I really wanted, because the condition was just too suspect. In the end, patients pays off.

Wayner

[Elizabeth]

Warp: pull out the Lp and look for a building 'edge' ceiling meets wall. two walls.. etc. line up the LP edgewise with the building edge. look. rotate Lp 90 degrees and look again.
Also disk warps: look edge on. even the tiniest deflection from flat at center spindle hole is a major dish warp.
I never use the 'feel the scratch' method. i use a 'tilt the record and look at the groove reflections' method: Tilting a record and using the angle (lighting dependent)  to make the grooves flash light back at your eyes, then go to the area with the mark, IF the light is undisturbed and flashes if as no damage, then the groove is undamaged. If you can 'see' the mark AT ALL while the tilt and flash, groove IS damaged. I do the test in both directions to inspect both sides of the grooves. The light is actually reflecting from the inner sides of the grooves. (Sunlight is the very best for this, but it can be  done with store lighting. i find it very funny some record shows have extremely poor lighting!! deliberately?)
I am 'displeased' at no inner sleeve, but some like new 50 year old Lps i have were that way, so I never dismiss the lack of inner sleeve LPs.
i have several places which do take back Lps no problem. If the place will not take back used LPs, they are scumbags, selling stuff they KNOW is bad. Avoid those places if you can. (of course do not abuse nice places which do take back stuff...)
Better very nearsighted than farsighted: look CLOSE at the surface. Eyeball a few inches away for the spidery super fine scratches of a lot of use. They do not affect play, BUT do tell of major usage, and thus not good. Look at EVERY INCH of the Lp surface both sides. The one flaw that kills the Lps is the one you did not bother to find...
And a lot of used Lps are there with that one awful flaw. (though I did recently buy an important two LP Jazz title for a buck (who cares for a dollar for a great Jazz, hard to find, performance..) with the ugliest looking single flaw.. but it played through!! Whoo Hoo!
And NEVER 'start' flipping through Lps right next to someone who was there first. I wish i could barf on command on these guys! Go look someplace else! wait your turn. a hundred rows of LPs to look at, and the person' (I want to say all sorts of bad words) comes in and immediately comes right next to where i am and starts flipping. They COULD have started anywhere.. Grrr i turn and cough directly into thier faces.. Like who are you... Just me i guess.. Then the ones who actually start handling the Lps IN THE BIN I AM IN.. I have just told them to get the Hell away in that 'i will kill you' voice.
(I have to stop complaining as this is a pet peeve and i hate hate hate these people.)

[orthobiz]

If the place will not take back used LPs, they are scumbags, selling stuff they KNOW is bad.

I wish i could barf on command on these guys!

(I want to say all sorts of bad words)

I have just told them to get the Hell away in that 'i will kill you' voice.

I hate hate hate these people.

You are my inspiration! I start anger management next week...

Paul

[pumpkinman]

Has anyone had this happen. I pulled out the LP and it was beautiful went home cleaned it and then I am playing the LP
when I realize it's the wrong record altogether. I never bothered to see if the LP matched the cover   

This is why I need a side kick to follow behind to make sure I don't screw up   .........Bill

[Elizabeth]

That is why I have a habit of actually reading the label songs.

And it is not anger, It is having my space. On a crowded subway fine, in a store with a hundred OTHER bins.. i do not put up with the intrusion. (One store in particular, the Used CDs are under the full price bins above, So why is it no matter what i am looking at, some old bag who just came in, just HAS to look right at that moment in the bins over my head. Not the ones nearby, but JUST THE ONE OVER MY HEAD. Never fails. Again i tell them to back off, in the 'I WILL kill you' voice, and if that does not work i stand straight up and start digging in at the same spot they are. I have shoved people by just standing up in the spot i am in. So yeah i want the space i am in. And i do not do the very thing i dispise. i can wait until some other person is finished if they are in an area i want to look at. at least 90% of the time they and i have totally different interests.
(And i think that is the temptation/danger: they worry i might find one THEY want, so they HAVE to check immediately, to avoid that possibility. Which is nonsense. as, like i said, the vast majority of folks do not look for the same stuff. And since some music chasers are not very social, they seem oblivious to my right to the space i already occupy. Sound nasty? so what. They have absolutely no regard for my rights, and expect to get away with the crap they are pulling becuse most folks do not want a 'scene'. Well it ain't gonna happen.
 And i usually look through an area backwards. Since most go forwards, it is a much better arrangement so another searcher and myself can quietly and easily pass each other.  i will give them space and even go look in another area to allow them free access.

Added: looking for used music is a tough game. Suggest if you are timid, you stick to Amazon. LOL!

[Devil Doc]

I suspect  you would be a formidable opponent in Filene's Bargain Basement. 

Doc.

[thunderbrick]

Yeah, I hate being crowded in record stores.  I have had occasions where I start building a small pile of records or CDs right next to me, and someone starts rifling through the stuff I have already picked out.  If they ask first to see what I was buying I'd be fine with that because we may strike up a nice conversation and help each other out.  But blatant discourtesy is grounds for an argument.

Also, if I see some arrogant jerk working his way toward me, I spread my elbows a bit wider, so they can't get into the adjoining boxes.  But then I'll normally skip a few boxes past them so I don't crowd them.

Similar to getting off an elevator, only to find some jerk pushing their way in first.  I simply smile, block their way (I'm kinda big) and make them slowly back up.  Then I nicely look them in the eye, smile, and growl "Thank you!".  Gonna teach them courtesy even if I have to kill them!   

Edit:  I have found most men will respond properly to a woman who stares directly at them and without a word, raises a single eyebrow.  Scares the hell out of me when my wife does that.     

[bside123]

I find that almost every time I go into a good record store... as soon as I start really getting into flipping through the albums... sure enough... NOW   I have to go to the bathroom... really bad...  what's up with that? PS. I know I'm not alone. 

[orthobiz]

Has anyone had this happen. I pulled out the LP and it was beautiful went home cleaned it and then I am playing the LP
when I realize it's the wrong record altogether. I never bothered to see if the LP matched the cover   

This is why I need a side kick to follow behind to make sure I don't screw up   .........Bill

No. This has never happened to me.

Paul