What would it take to convert the x-voce to a sealed or ported center channel??

minisq · « **on:** 15 May 2011, 10:18 pm »

I purchased one on a whim, and it was before i realized that it would require 100% open space above.

I can build a box....but would i have to build a complete crossover from scratch? Are the specs of the drivers available?

I may just sell it and jump on this new LS center....but that will be close too, as i have only 47 1/2" between the posts of my TV stand.

basically putting this x-voce in the TV stand seems to almost cancel it out...sometimes when the majority of the vocals are sent to the x-voce and not the LCR the dialog is too soft...and i am not getting any impact in the vocals, whihc is why i bought the x-voce in the first place.

If i sit off to the side it sounds too loud and boomy...but in the center it seems off...even with sound absorption panels above it and behind it.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 May 2011, 11:17 pm »

Without question you need open space above it and some decent space behind it.

You could just buy the crossovers for the X-CS and just use the two center woofers and tweeter only in a sealed box.

minisq · « **Reply #2 on:** 16 May 2011, 12:29 am »

yeah i get it now...but too late. I saw all kinds of pictures online of it in stands and had already purchased it before reading that it needed to be sitting out in the middle of the room.

the idea of going back to an x-cs doesn't thrill me, i already own an a/v 3s center channel that sounds better than this x-voce. i love the sounds of my ring tweeters in my car....that is the sound i am trying to capture. nice an up front....i figured i could make something work with these 4 woofers and a ring tweeter...or ribbon tweeter.

guess not...

Danny Richie · « **Reply #3 on:** 16 May 2011, 02:12 pm »

I have done a lot of designs with the ring tweeter, and the tweeter in the X-Voce is a better sounding tweeter.

And welcome to AC.

corndog71 · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 May 2011, 02:55 pm »

I would second the X-CS in that application. The tweeter that the Voce and X-CS share is really good. I would highly recommend you build the X-CS kit and get Sonicaps and Mills resistors for the tweeter circuit. The stock caps hold back the full potential of those tweeters.

se-riously · « **Reply #5 on:** 16 May 2011, 06:39 pm »

minisq - PM sent.

minisq · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 May 2011, 09:51 pm »

i think i need to take a step back..and think this thru. Like i said, i have the GR a/v3s center channel which was more than acceptable...maybe i could tweak that build for now...i think i remember there was a ported box build for that...and throw in the 6's and tweet from the x-voce.

I guess what i really am looking for is a stop gap until this new center channel beast comes out...that is not going to need air space on top is it?

i need to find out the impedance and t/s of the drivers in my a/v 3-s and this x-voce..with the x-voce being a 3 way design ( i thought it was a 2-way)...there is not reason why i can't build a new 3 way box...sealed or ported and have someone build me a crossover based on the driver specs and have it sounds spectacular.

Or i just sell the x-voce...keep the the a/v3 until the LS center becomes a reality.

Always good to have a project handy...

Danny Richie · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 May 2011, 02:34 am »

Sorry, but you can't build a crossover based on driver specs. It doesn't really work that way. Well, some people do that, but the result is a mess.

My crossovers are based on acoustic output. Change the drivers and the crossover changes. Change the bafflle size and the output changes and then the crossover changes....

You can't mix and match.

If you want to take the A/V-3's up a notch then upgrade the crossover caps to Sonicaps.

minisq · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 May 2011, 02:51 am »

Quote from: Danny on 17 May 2011, 02:34 am

Sorry, but you can't build a crossover based on driver specs. It doesn't really work that way. Well, some people do that, but the result is a mess.

My crossovers are based on acoustic output. Change the drivers and the crossover changes. Change the bafflle size and the output changes and then the crossover changes....

You can't mix and match.

If you want to take the A/V-3's up a notch then upgrade the crossover caps to Sonicaps.

so you are saying that if you take
1. a pile of drivers
2. some T/s specs
3. a box

you ( or others) can't design a crossover based on 1+2+3 ??? And these are all drivers that you know intimately...thats confusing to me.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #9 on:** 17 May 2011, 03:16 am »

You can design a crossover based on the electrical parameters, but it may or may not even get you in the ball park.

I design based on acoustic output. That is a big difference.

Designing based on electrical parameters doesn't take into account the drivers response, any break up areas, baffle step loss, surface reflections, voice coil offset, phase delays, vertical or horizontal off axis responses, etc. Basically its a shot in the dark.

minisq · « **Reply #10 on:** 17 May 2011, 10:15 am »

So it looks like the only thing i can do with this speaker is sell it...whihc is a shame because it is a beautiful speaker.

Just not right for my application...thanks for trying!!!

When will the LS center kit be available? And ball park pricing for kit only?

Tim

se-riously · « **Reply #11 on:** 17 May 2011, 06:30 pm »

Quote from: minisq on 17 May 2011, 10:15 am

And ball park pricing for kit only?

An educated guess would be at least $450, since that's half the kit price of a pair of OB-7's.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #12 on:** 17 May 2011, 09:50 pm »

Quote from: se-riously on 17 May 2011, 06:30 pm

An educated guess would be at least $450, since that's half the kit price of a pair of OB-7's.

That might be pretty close.

minisq · « **Reply #13 on:** 17 May 2011, 10:19 pm »

Quote from: Danny on 17 May 2011, 09:50 pm

That might be pretty close.

thanks...in the meantime, i have listed my X-voce for sale here....and have gone back to my A/V3s. There has to be a really great CC out there somewhere....the AV3 is fine...just not as "dynamic" as i would like...maybe i can swap in a spare SB ring tweeter i have...( i know....sacrilege).

minisq · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 May 2011, 10:57 pm »

Quote from: Danny on 17 May 2011, 02:34 am

If you want to take the A/V-3's up a notch then upgrade the crossover caps to Sonicaps.

I opened up the cabinet to the A/V 3 and i see that i have two sonicaps...so I assume i upgraded to sonicaps when i bought the kit.

Quote from: minisq on 16 May 2011, 12:29 am

yeah i get it now...but too late. I saw all kinds of pictures online of it in stands and had already purchased it before reading that it needed to be sitting out in the middle of the room.

the idea of going back to an x-cs doesn't thrill me, i already own an a/v 3s center channel that sounds better than this x-voce. i love the sounds of my ring tweeters in my car....that is the sound i am trying to capture. nice an up front....i figured i could make something work with these 4 woofers and a ring tweeter...or ribbon tweeter.

guess not...

This is a possibility...i did not see that available on the site...where do i look?

One more question (hopefully)...what about swapping the standard A/V3 tweeter with the Neo3 ??? Does that drop in? Or is that a whole new crossover?

Danny Richie · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 May 2011, 11:08 pm »

Quote

I opened up the cabinet to the A/V 3 and i see that i have two sonicaps...so I assume i upgraded to sonicaps when i bought the kit.

That's good.

Quote

One more question (hopefully)...what about swapping the standard A/V3 tweeter with the Neo3 ??? Does that drop in? Or is that a whole new crossover?

Then it becomes a different speaker. The woofer spacing has to increase slightly because of the larger diameter tweeter (so no, it is not a drop in replacement), and almost all of the crossover changes too.

minisq · « **Reply #16 on:** 18 May 2011, 11:48 pm »

so would the x-cs be an upgrade vocally over the a/v3s ( with sonicaps ) and if so how do i buy the x-cs crossover? And where can i download the box diagram?

Danny Richie · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 May 2011, 12:25 am »

Quote

so would the x-cs be an upgrade vocally over the a/v3s ( with sonicaps ) and if so how do i buy the x-cs crossover?

With the same caps on each of them then they are about even.

The caps make as much difference as the tweeter.

minisq · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 May 2011, 12:29 am »

OK...then i am going to stand pat with my AV/3 for now...thanks for all your time.
I will keep my eyes open for the new project and (assuming the LS center will be an upgrade over the a/v3 ) and get my order in then.

Tim

minisq · « **Reply #19 on:** 20 May 2011, 11:14 pm »

One more question, on the A/V-3s box ( i am rebuilding my box this weekend to the specs on the PDF).

The placement of the bracing ....is set up to be just outside the tweeter and inside the woofers....is there a sound quality reason not to space them out to say almost centered over the woofers?

The reason for this would be to put the crossover in the space behind the tweeter instead of splitting it in half and having it behind each woofer.

I would then put the terminal cup centered too ( behind the tweeter).

Got any internal pics of the best way you like to lay out the internal stuff? I am going to need to order some acoustic foam too...i am embarrassed to say that 3 years ago or so when i built this, i used eggcrate foam and car audio door deadened...I am embarrassed by this...but the new one will be perfect