Cables

bogiedr · « **on:** 10 May 2011, 12:33 am »

I recently changed out my Tara Labs speaker wires for something new. I am not sure it is cool to plug a product here

so I will ask if it is ok to post what I got. I can tell you that my wife noticed as soon as I installed the new jumper cables and wires on the VR2's, she could not believe the amount of detail that was missing with the Tara Labs. The bass was better than ever, the dispersion and imaging improved dramatically and the detail ... the detail!!! All for cheap too!! Let me know if it is cool to post brands.

Bogie!

JackD201 · « **Reply #1 on:** 10 May 2011, 12:54 am »

Great performance for cheap?

Post away!

Delacroix · « **Reply #2 on:** 10 May 2011, 01:04 am »

Yes post---- it would be uncool to tell us a great bargain existed without providing specifics....of course if you are going to tell us that 16awg zip worked wonders, then you might predict the reaction (from those of us who have tried it

but a real cable bargain is always popular.....post away

es347 · « **Reply #3 on:** 10 May 2011, 02:23 am »

Soft-drawn unobtanium in the DNA double helix configuration??

kgturner · « **Reply #4 on:** 10 May 2011, 06:07 pm »

I always smile every time somebody says "even my wife could tell a difference". I'm not dismissing your experience, just pointing out that this is a common theme among audiophiles/music lovers when it comes to system changes both major and minor. And, yes, please do tell us what cable it is.

Kevin T

es347 · « **Reply #5 on:** 10 May 2011, 09:28 pm »

"even my wife could tell a difference"...pursuant to getting that new tennis bracelet..

bogiedr · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 May 2011, 11:14 pm »

Sorry, I have been gone for a bit!! Cables, I thought, "I have $175 to spare! I ordered Paul Speitz anti cable and jumper cables. I am telling you, the difference was amazing to me. The detail in the old vinyl recordings was astounding, digital recordings played through a decent DAC were phenomenal!! The VR2's continue to amaze me, and please remember I was ready to throw them off the Sunshine Skyway!!! Just gave them NAD power, Paul's magnificent cables and WOW!!! If you have not tried these, do so, we spend far more than this amount of money on other tweeks that we often find do not work. By the way, smooth transaction and great service. Highly reccomended!!

JackD201 · « **Reply #7 on:** 13 May 2011, 05:18 am »

Quite a number of folks in another forum have Speltz Anti-Cables with their VR-1s and swear by them. Great to hear it's the same for VR-2s. I wouldn't be surprised if they were great for LCR-15s and VR-4jrs as well.

Another set of cables that came at about the same price that I really like are the Townshend Maxwire SCs and DCT-100 ICs. It's a shame that the Maxwires were discontinued. It's a good thing I hoarded a bunch of them.

BigSwede · « **Reply #8 on:** 13 May 2011, 01:52 pm »

I have Anti-cable jumpers on my VR-2s. They were a noticeable improvement over the jumper plates VSA provided.

I auditioned Anti-cables for my speakers but didn't like them at all on my system, I felt they were unnaturally bright and bass shy to boot. Of course, they are about the polar opposite, design-wise, of my Analysis Plus Oval 9s so perhaps that is not surprising...

es347 · « **Reply #9 on:** 13 May 2011, 02:58 pm »

I've tried anti cables in a bi-wire mode on my VR5 Anniversaries and although they were decent I found them to be a bit brittle and overly bright like BigSwede says. The VSA biwires or Verbatims are far superior on my system...results may vary

BigSwede · « **Reply #10 on:** 13 May 2011, 04:21 pm »

Absolutely...that damn synergy thing may have them working great in bogiedr's system...for example I found that changing one component can render a previously favorite interconnect to utter blahdom. Just sayin' the Anticables didn't work for me in my system.

bogiedr · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 May 2011, 01:44 am »

I understand that some folks may love the anti cable and some may be so so on them. That's why we love this passion called hi fidelity!!

we all hear things a bit differently and apreciate different qualities about equipment, otherwise there would be one company producing equipment and life would be boring!!

They seem to work with my system, perhaps if I was listening to Tannoy's they would sound awfull?

azhtnut · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 May 2011, 06:01 pm »

I have a related cable question for my home theater room. The equipment closet is in the back of the room and a 25'LF, 30'C and 35'RF cable run to my VR4sr-MKIIIs and LCR-15 at the front of the room. I have basic cables now, but am looking for something better to upgrade to.

Is there a good cable for that long of a run that won't break the bank, i.e. < $2K for all (3) runs? Prefer < $1K, if possible.

Thanks,
Marty

JackD201 · « **Reply #13 on:** 16 May 2011, 07:10 pm »

Hi Marty,

Are you running a Pre/pro and Multichannel amp or a receiver? I can think of an even less expensive configuration that should give you better sonics. Ping me if you're curious

Jack

es347 · « **Reply #14 on:** 16 May 2011, 07:18 pm »

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=KKKWIK or....

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ANOV16100

Personally I ran 12 ga. Belden speaker wire all the way around in my 5.1 HT system and the sound is not bad at all...seriously.

es347 · « **Reply #15 on:** 16 May 2011, 07:19 pm »

Quote from: JackD201 on 16 May 2011, 07:10 pm

Hi Marty,

Are you running a Pre/pro and Multichannel amp or a receiver? I can think of an even less expensive configuration that should give you better sonics. Ping me if you're curious

Jack

You've got my ear Jack...what are your thoughts on this?

JackD201 · « **Reply #16 on:** 16 May 2011, 07:59 pm »

Move the multichannel amp up front. Use Belden or better yet Mogami microphone cables from pre-pro to amp. Use the existing speaker cables to go to the surrounds. Use 6 to 10 gauge copper to L-C-R.

Pros

Amp gets better ventilation lowering chances of thermal distortion.

The shorter run of the speaker cables is an easier load for the amp and reaction time of feedback circuits

Marty was using staggered lengths that while theoretically shouldn't make a difference, longer runs sound softer, most likely caused by comparative roll offs in frequencies we are sensitive to due to LCR variations. Help me out here Gavin, you're the EE.

Long ICs are very easy to live with. For some reason cheap ICs actually sound more balanced when used for long runs. 10 to 12 meters is absolutely no problem for a pre-pro to drive. The need to upgrade these later I would wager, would be near nil.

I recommend large gauge copper for speaker cables to get the best bass out of those Mk.3s. Going from a 20 ft run of 12 gauge to shorter larger gauge will sound like a bonafide amplifier upgrade. More importantly, Marty gets unstuck. Since Marty probably won't ever never need or want to upgrade the ICs, options open up for SCs down the road. At this point we're way below his materials budget but higher on the elbow grease. Not a bad trade off. The sound of the cables should be quite good, certainly good enough not to be distracting. The money saved could go to something more dramatic, like trading up from an LCR-15 to a VisiUN Mk.2 (which is really a Mk.3 on its side). Trust me. My HT is Mk.3s and VisiUN 2s. Talk about a seamless wall of sound.

It looks cool!

Cons

If the wiring is built in, this could mean a whole lot of yanking, pulling and termination.

There might not be a CO upfront

The amp will need some vibration control compared to the old placement. Butcher block or hockey pucks will do fine but one can always go crazy later.

es347 · « **Reply #17 on:** 16 May 2011, 08:24 pm »

Hey Jack...my electrical expertise gets a bit shaky when the V goes below 600V

but...indeed if the RLC #s get great enough, as I recall from a former life, you can count on audible changes. I ran #12 Belden in the walls all the way around in my HT (longest run being maybe 25 ft.) and don't really believe that going with more exotic cables would have made an appreciable sonic difference since the most demanding source would be the occasional concert blu ray. Any serious 2 ch listening occurs elsewhere but my HT setup even when listening to SACD multichannel is actually very good. But hey, I'm dealing with a couple of very old ears

azhtnut · « **Reply #18 on:** 16 May 2011, 09:37 pm »

Thanks for the input.

I am running a Mac MX-135 pre-amp balanced to a MC-402 that goes to the FL and FR. I have considered getting a 2nd MC-402, running an XLR interconnect to the each, and bi-amping the MKIIIs. The MC-205 will remain in the rack where the side and rear surround terminations are. I would leave the Center channel run from the MC-205 to the LCR-15 as is.

I am concerned with the vibrations for the amps in front as you mentioned. The stage is 9" above the floor and not filled with sand or insulation. To fill now would require a costly retrofit or replacement. The MKIIIs currently sit on Soundocity spike bars on top of Herbies Big Fat dots (both from another thread here) that have greatly reduced vibrations and improved their sound. The stage also has the LCR-15 and (2) SVS subs.

I am not really sure how to measure or determine the impact of stage vibrations to know if filling the stage is worthwhile, but would have to consider that if moving the amps up. Pulling new wires from either the pre-amp or amp to the stage is actually the easiest part of the project, which is why I am focusing on that.

Marty

JackD201 · « **Reply #19 on:** 16 May 2011, 10:08 pm »

Sympathetic vibrations from the stage shouldn't be a problem Marty.

No need to retrofit the stage. Get two to three inches of granite whose weight along with the amp will take away whatever "bounce" might be on there, put some Herbies on them and some butcherblock on those and your MAC will be good to go. MAC chassis are sturdy and don't ring but if yours do then a two pound piece of iron covered with black felt will do the trick and be near invisible as well.

If you're feeling inspired painting that butchers block gloss black on black granite would look killer with the big blue meters