You are not a diehard vinyl fan

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rcag_ils

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You are not a diehard vinyl fan
« on: 9 May 2011, 08:06 pm »
unless you are willing to pay that much for this....

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?anlgtabl&1304991415&auc&3&4&

a foolish vinyl fan that is.....

orthobiz

Re: You are not a diehard vinyl fan
« Reply #1 on: 9 May 2011, 08:11 pm »
The SP10 was THE only turntable on the first Absolute Sound list of recommended components way back in the 70's when the magazine began. I never saw one...

I think 10 grand is a lot but as I update my Linn Sondek little by little year after year, it make me wonder where it's all gonna end!

Paul

TONEPUB

Re: You are not a diehard vinyl fan
« Reply #2 on: 9 May 2011, 09:06 pm »
The SP10 is a nice table, but hardly the "king of turntables."

The mk. 3 is pretty rare and this one's in great shape, thus the high price.  You can usually find a nice Mk.2 for about 2-3000 without arm.  Add a nice SME 309 and you are good to go.

So does this mean one is a foolish vinyl fan if they've spent 10k on a turntable?

rcag_ils

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Re: You are not a diehard vinyl fan
« Reply #3 on: 9 May 2011, 09:24 pm »
First, maybe I don't qualify to judge since I don't know the difference between a MK2 and a MK3. The SP-10 that I know of didn't seem to have a separate power supply, it came w/wo arm, and w/wo plinth., that's all I know.

Quote
So does this mean one is a foolish vinyl fan if they've spent 10k on a turntable?

Not at all, (we are in a free country, and we can pay as much as we want for whatever we want and all that good stuff...) the issue here is I think it's foolish to pay 10k for a Technics direct drive. I don't see any vintage collectable value in this thing, even if it did, it certainly would not be worth 10K to me.

Quote
The SP10 was THE only turntable on the first Absolute Sound list of recommended components way back in the 70's when the magazine began.

Reviewers made mistake in the 70's just like Gordon Holt gave a good review to the Dynaco Pat4 over the Pas3, he later regreted and changed his review. The guy worked for AS probably just wrapped his head around the newest technology at that time, Wooo wow over a direct drive, you know, he might have regreted that review and didn't tell anyone about it.
« Last Edit: 10 May 2011, 12:18 am by rcag_ils »

TONEPUB

Re: You are not a diehard vinyl fan
« Reply #4 on: 9 May 2011, 11:21 pm »
Yes, all the SP-10's had sep supplies. 

And, there was a black obsidian base for the SP-10 that was very nice. Tough to find these days.

Right before DD got popular again, they were pretty cheap on the used market.  Not any more, but still well worth the $2-4k being asked for a clean one.

rcag_ils

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Re: You are not a diehard vinyl fan
« Reply #5 on: 10 May 2011, 12:40 am »
Quote
Right before DD got popular again, they were pretty cheap on the used market.

They are still cheap on the used market.

DD hasn't gotton popular again, the audiophile chatters brings up the prices of the selected few DD, not all. DD still being sold at thrift stores for about $20.00 top.

The prices for the "audiophile" quality belt drive turntables in the 80's were not affordable enough to most, at the same time people are dumping their lps. Then the Wall came down, the West hooked up with the East and started making affordable "belt drive" turntables there, hence the resurgence of the vinyl. Audiophile could listen to vinyl on an affordable decent belt drive.

Audiofools didn't stop there, they started trumping up the DD, well, "what models should we trump up, I've got it, the most expensive model by Technics, which one, the SP-10, woohoo." There you have it, a SP-10 that the fools are willing to pay 10k for. No difference than paying 10k for some patch cable.

orthobiz

Re: You are not a diehard vinyl fan
« Reply #6 on: 10 May 2011, 02:04 am »
It's a cool hobby.

Paul

TONEPUB

Re: You are not a diehard vinyl fan
« Reply #7 on: 10 May 2011, 02:08 am »
They are still cheap on the used market.

DD hasn't gotton popular again, the audiophile chatters brings up the prices of the selected few DD, not all. DD still being sold at thrift stores for about $20.00 top.

The prices for the "audiophile" quality belt drive turntables in the 80's were not affordable enough to most, at the same time people are dumping their lps. Then the Wall came down, the West hooked up with the East and started making affordable "belt drive" turntables there, hence the resurgence of the vinyl. Audiophile could listen to vinyl on an affordable decent belt drive.

Audiofools didn't stop there, they started trumping up the DD, well, "what models should we trump up, I've got it, the most expensive model by Technics, which one, the SP-10, woohoo." There you have it, a SP-10 that the fools are willing to pay 10k for. No difference than paying 10k for some patch cable.

Not the good ones.  SL-1200's have jumped up quite a bit since production stopped, and they are now fetching around 500-600.  The top line Denon's are about the same price.

What's the "trumped up" nonsense?

While someone obviously paid too much for a mint version of a rare model, this isn't happening on a regular.

And if you've been paying attention, the SL-1200's and Denon's have gotten pretty popular, modded and un modded.  Just because something is of no value to you, it doesn't mean that it does not to someone else.  I'd never pay 10k for an SP-10 either, but I'd pay 3k for a nice clean Mk.II.


neobop

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Re: You are not a diehard vinyl fan
« Reply #8 on: 10 May 2011, 02:17 am »
They are still cheap on the used market.

DD hasn't gotton popular again, the audiophile chatters brings up the prices of the selected few DD, not all. DD still being sold at thrift stores for about $20.00 top.

The prices for the "audiophile" quality belt drive turntables in the 80's were not affordable enough to most, at the same time people are dumping their lps. Then the Wall came down, the West hooked up with the East and started making affordable "belt drive" turntables there, hence the resurgence of the vinyl. Audiophile could listen to vinyl on an affordable decent belt drive.

Audiofools didn't stop there, they started trumping up the DD, well, "what models should we trump up, I've got it, the most expensive model by Technics, which one, the SP-10, woohoo." There you have it, a SP-10 that the fools are willing to pay 10k for. No difference than paying 10k for some patch cable.

Strange outlook. The SP-10 is a classic broadcast table. The MKIII is super rare. It's a collector's item and a damn good table. What's your problem if somebody wants it for $10K? There are all kinds of expensive toys out there. There was a Kenwood LO-7D on there for $6K for a long time. The price came down and it was gone. How about a Goldmund Studio for $5 - 6K? No good?
You got something better for around $5 - 6K? Some glorified rubber band drive? Woohoo   :evil:

Wish I could afford a Teres Certus 440. They start at $14,800. Woohoo!!!
http://www.teresaudio.com/certus.html

neo

richidoo

Re: You are not a diehard vinyl fan
« Reply #9 on: 10 May 2011, 03:35 am »
I got my DD technics for free from the neighbor....  Bwhahahhahahaahaha all the way to the bank.

And no, I am not (yet) a die hard vinyl fan, in case you couldn't tell. :D

jimdgoulding

Re: You are not a diehard vinyl fan
« Reply #10 on: 10 May 2011, 03:40 am »
Strange outlook. The SP-10 is a classic broadcast table. The MKIII is super rare. It's a collector's item and a damn good table. What's your problem if somebody wants it for $10K? There are all kinds of expensive toys out there. There was a Kenwood LO-7D on there for $6K for a long time. The price came down and it was gone. How about a Goldmund Studio for $5 - 6K? No good?
You got something better for around $5 - 6K? Some glorified rubber band drive? Woohoo   :evil:

Wish I could afford a Teres Certus 440. They start at $14,800. Woohoo!!!
http://www.teresaudio.com/certus.html

neo
Dang, if I thought my Kenwood LO-7 was gonna appreciate like that I never would've gotten rid of it.  That is absurd I hope you know.

Hold the phone.  I'm confused.  On second thought, my table was a KD500, I think.  The LO7's were mono amps and I do still have those.

Toni Rambold


neobop

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rcag_ils

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Re: You are not a diehard vinyl fan
« Reply #13 on: 10 May 2011, 10:12 pm »
>>>>Top models from the 70s command high prices among audiophiles simply for nostalgic reasons (see above).
Good transcription turntables like the SP10s or the big Denons offered without a plinth are still a reasonable deal at around 400-500 bucks as many audiophiles seem to shy away the work of builing an own plinth for these decks. Right now the SP10Mk2 seems to be the audio-bargain of all times when it comes to set up a top analog-frontend.
The big prestige-decks like the Nakamichis or the Goldmunds won't get cheaper, too. Many audiophiles recognized that today there isn't anything quite equal to these decks.<<<<

Extracted from the article. The author sort of agrees with me that audiophools like them for nostalgic reasons, and they are worth about 400-500 bucks. They are still too rich for my blood at that price, I'd say they are worth about 200 to 300 bucks max, more like 200, if you took it to the bald headed guy at the Pawnstar show, I think he'd give you $75, because he'd probably need to sell it for $300 to make a decent profit.

No mention of the sonic performance on those DD in the article.

TONEPUB

Re: You are not a diehard vinyl fan
« Reply #14 on: 10 May 2011, 10:27 pm »
Sorry, but you're way off base on the SP-10.  You will never find one for 500 bucks.  An SP-10 mk.2 still stands up well at $2-4k against comparably priced new tables.

Anyone who takes an SP-10 of either vintage to a pawn shop is pretty clueless.

The Nak Dragon TT is going up in price because of its collectibility, but not that amazing of a table, sound wise.  The smaller Dragon can fetch about 12-1500 and the big one three times that.  The smaller one is really the bang for the buck model, but these tables have been easily surpassed by todays stuff.  Even an SP-10 offers better performance than either of the Nak tables.

rcag_ils

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Re: You are not a diehard vinyl fan
« Reply #15 on: 11 May 2011, 01:01 am »
Quote
Sorry, but you're way off base on the SP-10.  You will never find one for 500 bucks.  An SP-10 mk.2 still stands up well at $2-4k against comparably priced new tables.

Anyone who takes an SP-10 of either vintage to a pawn shop is pretty clueless.

The Nak Dragon TT is going up in price because of its collectibility, but not that amazing of a table, sound wise.  The smaller Dragon can fetch about 12-1500 and the big one three times that.  The smaller one is really the bang for the buck model, but these tables have been easily surpassed by todays stuff.  Even an SP-10 offers better performance than either of the Nak tables.

I hear you, I hear you, these tables prices are going up. My point is other than certain people are willing to pay 10K for their nostalgic value, and the pride of ownership, what else is there sonically? If you like them for their nostalgic value, fine, but don't justify it (like certain people do) by trumping up their limited sonic property, they are kidding themselves.

SET Man

Re: You are not a diehard vinyl fan
« Reply #16 on: 11 May 2011, 01:41 am »
Hey!

  Hmmmm... I've never seen that one before. I would say that the price in this case reflect the rarity of the TT. It does looks impressive though.

  As for the sound. I've never heard this one. But I wouldn't underestimate it, I know that some vintage TT can sound very good  :wink:

Take care,
Buddy  :thumb:

simoon

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Re: You are not a diehard vinyl fan
« Reply #17 on: 11 May 2011, 04:39 pm »
Dang, if I thought my Kenwood LO-7 was gonna appreciate like that I never would've gotten rid of it.  That is absurd I hope you know.

Hold the phone.  I'm confused.  On second thought, my table was a KD500, I think.  The LO7's were mono amps and I do still have those.

The L-O7 D was a turntable -






LO7 M were the mono amps.

Kenwood produced an entire high end line all with the LO nomenclature.

jimdgoulding

Re: You are not a diehard vinyl fan
« Reply #18 on: 11 May 2011, 05:02 pm »
Got ya.  Thanks.

neobop

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Re: You are not a diehard vinyl fan
« Reply #19 on: 11 May 2011, 11:47 pm »
>>>>Top models from the 70s command high prices among audiophiles simply for nostalgic reasons (see above).
Good transcription turntables like the SP10s or the big Denons offered without a plinth are still a reasonable deal at around 400-500 bucks as many audiophiles seem to shy away the work of builing an own plinth for these decks. Right now the SP10Mk2 seems to be the audio-bargain of all times when it comes to set up a top analog-frontend.
The big prestige-decks like the Nakamichis or the Goldmunds won't get cheaper, too. Many audiophiles recognized that today there isn't anything quite equal to these decks.<<<<

Extracted from the article. The author sort of agrees with me that audiophools like them for nostalgic reasons, and they are worth about 400-500 bucks. They are still too rich for my blood at that price, I'd say they are worth about 200 to 300 bucks max, more like 200, if you took it to the bald headed guy at the Pawnstar show, I think he'd give you $75, because he'd probably need to sell it for $300 to make a decent profit.

No mention of the sonic performance on those DD in the article.

It's not a review, it's a museum. There were all kinds of DD decks, not just the mass market ones you might be familiar with. How about an EMT, $300?
http://geocities.ws/bc1a69/emt_eng.html

Micro Seiki top models regularily go for $1K and up.
Luxman made some beautiful decks that go for good money. Some had magnetic suspension and some had vacuum hold down.
Mitch Cotter custom DD tables regularily go for $2 - 6K

Most every Japanese company had a flagship or transcription table that we never see. If one came on the market it would be worth thousands.

http://geocities.ws/bc1a69/others_eng.html

Maybe they all weren't the greatest, but I'll bet if a Yamaha GT-2000 came on the market today, it would command $10K, or close to it. Why not? What else can you do with $10K, buy a silly car?

I had a Goldmund Studietto in the late '80s. It was $2.2K w/o arm. There was nothing I could find anywhere near that price that could take it on. My previous table was an LP-12. There was one belt drive that was probably better. The Goldmund Reference was $50K.
neo