[fatgh0st]

OK, so not exactly a "room" but I'm curious if any of you have done what I'm thinking of or have heard anything similarly configured. I have a pretty decent vinyl setup in the basement that sounds great, but during the nicer months, I'd love to be able to get great sound while enjoying the fresh air. I have a pair of Paradigm Studio 20 v 5's laying around doing nothing and I was thinking it would nice if I could utilize them outside. I understand that these are not outdoor speakers and as such, I would never leave them out there. I would basically take this system inside whenever I wasn't listening.

The thought is I would sit on my deck, with my back against the outside wall of the house, and have the speakers against the outside rails of the deck (but on speaker stands). I would probably pick up a sub-$500 USED integrated and use one of my various digital sources laying around to build the setup. It would probably be a 5 minute setup/teardown process each time, but I'm OK with that.

The question I have is more about how you think this would sound for imaging and SQ. I know what these speakers are capable of in a room, but this is obviously a different beast. With nothing but deck rails behind the speakers, would I be able to accomplish any decent/acceptable bottom end? Also, would reflections off the back wall (the house) be a major problem? It's vinyl siding.

The deck dimensions are 12' deep from the house wall (where I would be sitting) to the rails at the end (where the speakers would be). I would estimate about 10' from ear to tweeters. It's about 22' wide, with a wall extending out about 6' on the one side, and completely open on the other side. Also, not sure that it matters, but there are bushes/hedges that extend a few feet above the deck rails along the entire back of the deck, wrapping around to meet up with the 6' wall on the one side. There are no bushes on the open side of the deck.

I also have a sunsetter awning (fabric, although I'm not sure exactly what kind) that I can extend out the full depth of the deck that's about 12' wide. Do you think that having this open would help/hurt the imaging, bass or SQ.

Basically, in order to even test this out I would have to purchase an integrated of some kind since that's the one thing I don't have any spares of (and I'm not lugging my 125lb amp from the basement up!). So I'm just trying to get a gauge/opinion on whether there is potential here or if it's a complete waste of time. The main goal is imaging, but adequate bass is very important. I don't need it to shake me head-to-toe or anything like that, but the sound spectrum needs to sound complete. I would also not be looking to listen at very loud volumes as to not disturb neighbors.

Can this, or has this been done with any success?

[richidoo]

Hey fatgh0st, It is a nice idea, getting rid of the room acoustic problems and enjoying the outdoors at the same time.

Even in a quiet neighborhood there is a fair amount of ambient noise which will hide the benefits of an audiophile quality system, or even distract your attention.

The other thing to consider is that quality speakers are voiced to play inside a room. You might find that removing all the walls changes the tone too much. Specifically, bass may be too soft, although bass and midrange will sound noticeably clearer. If you put the speakers against the house you can get more bass. Move yourself closer to the speakers if you need more treble. Don't expect it to all fall together on the first try - it's a whole new system, so it will take some time to find the right setup.

I have some big 8" woofer, 2 way, ported outdoor patio speakers powered by a Sonos amp for outside listening. It is plenty good enough for enjoying music despite the background noise. Looking forward to hearing about your experience.
Rich

[srb]

My suggestion would be to get an integrated amplifier with tone controls.  I would expect that you would at least use the bass control to boost the bass.
 
Steve

[Russell Dawkins]

I predict you will need just a little bass boost, but will be so amazed at the difference having no room makes that you will happily live with less bass until you can find a way to compensate.

A decent (below 500Hz) bass control might do it. This type of turnover frequency usually only is found in devices with three tone controls - bass, mid and HF. Two control types typically use 1000Hz as a turnover frequency, which you might find is too high.

I also predict that you might hear image specificity in the bass for the first time - I know I did. I didn't know it was possible to hear exact placement of a drum with a fundamental frequency of around 40Hz until I heard the recording outside (with small transmission line speakers of my own design).

If you like good imaging, you will love the outside sound and will really hear, to your frustration, just what the room does to the sound of your system.

Another big surprise was how realistically inside acoustics of venues like theaters can be represented. There is a stronger sensation of being "in" a particular space.

Your biggest surprise might be how much you learn from the experience!

[werd]

I predict you will need just a little bass boost, but will be so amazed at the difference having no room makes that you will happily live with less bass until you can find a way to compensate.

A decent (below 500Hz) bass control might do it. This type of turnover frequency usually only is found in devices with three tone controls - bass, mid and HF. Two control types typically use 1000Hz as a turnover frequency, which you might find is too high.

I also predict that you might hear image specificity in the bass for the first time - I know I did. I didn't know it was possible to hear exact placement of a drum with a fundamental frequency of around 40Hz until I heard the recording outside (with small transmission line speakers of my own design).

If you like good imaging, you will love the outside sound and will really hear, to your frustration, just what the room does to the sound of your system.

Another big surprise was how realistically inside acoustics of venues like theaters can be represented. There is a stronger sensation of being "in" a particular space.

Your biggest surprise might be how much you learn from the experience!

You clearly have no clue whats going on.  Have you ever been to an outdoor concert? Thats a serious question because from your post i don't think you have. There is absolutely no chance of decent bass response unless you are up against the front of the speakers and those need to be driving some pretty big woofers. He is not going to get any bass response and you are not going to get form and accuracy from a bass drum off a pair of paradigm v20 outside (even thought they are good). Thanks for posting this, i get the pic now.

[Russell Dawkins]

You clearly have no clue whats going on.  Have you ever been to an outdoor concert? Thats a serious question because from your post i don't think you have. There is absolutely no chance of decent bass response unless you are up against the front of the speakers and those need to be driving some pretty big woofers. He is not going to get any bass response and you are not going to get form and accuracy from a bass drum off a pair of paradigm v20 outside (even thought they are good). Thanks for posting this, i get the pic now.

Well. There is irony afoot here!

I have been flown to Europe to record outdoor concerts, so "yes", I've been to and heard them. I heard Woodstock (live!) - does that count? It sounded excellent, by the way.

And no, I don't think you yet "get the pic".

P.S. by way of third party validation, check the final paragraph on this page by one of the most respected ribbon microphone makers in the world:
http://www.royerlabs.com/introduction.html

[sirbrine]

You clearly have no clue whats going on.  Have you ever been to an outdoor concert? Thats a serious question because from your post i don't think you have. There is absolutely no chance of decent bass response unless you are up against the front of the speakers and those need to be driving some pretty big woofers. He is not going to get any bass response and you are not going to get form and accuracy from a bass drum off a pair of paradigm v20 outside (even thought they are good). Thanks for posting this, i get the pic now.

I'm not sure what is going on in the background that I don't know about but I enjoy reading the messages in these forums more when they are a bit more respectful and the caustic remarks are kept out.

[fatgh0st]

First, thanks to all of those who took the time to provide positive feedback. I actually managed to scrounge up a 12 year old Yamaha stereo receiver and hooked it all up on the deck tonight to give it a whirl.

Richadoo: You're right. The ambient noise made for a far different experience than what I'm used to. Having said that, there was definitely something very relaxing about listening to very good music reproduction, even with the ambient noise of the night.

srb: The receiver I used tonight had bass/treble controls and a "loudness" button which gives a slight boost to the  bottom end over-and-above the tone controls. Turning up the bass tone control and the loudness helped tremendously.

Russell Dawkins: You couldn't be more right! The truth is, the bass was not nearly what I was used to in a room, but it was FAR better than I anticipated. Studio 20s are not large speakers so they aren't capable of driving really low frequencies with major authority. With that considered, the bass response I got outdoors was a very pleasant surprise. In addition, the openness of the soundstage with most of the walls removed sounded great!

All in all and as expected, it was not up to par for a critical listening environment. However, it was far better than any "outdoor" speaker setup I've heard before and was quite enjoyable. Couple the nature factor in and it was like an entirely different experience.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone who commented. I think I will continue to pursue a more permanent implementation of this (hooking up the amp/source inside, running pre-terminated speaker cables to the speaker positions on the deck).

[richidoo]

Great!!! Thanks for the report. Experimenting with acoustics is the most eye opening kind of learning in this whole hobby. It is the largest portion of total distortion, and not the "euphonic" kind!

[PMAT]

Aint it great? I love to listen outdoors. With a much lower expectation your mind can just listen and enjoy. I have a boat with a nice system in it. Not the usual tower blasters mind you. I have great 2-ways mounted in the bulkhead facing the rear of the boat which has a long bench seat. I have a sub for low end behind the bench and the effect is so freaking nice. I have no real ambient noise on the lake and the boat structure gives me great bass and the main speakers have almost no reflections from the rear. The question is can you enjoy all 21 flavors of audio or are you stuck with just chocolate or vanilla?

[mtbdudex]

For 2 years now I've done outdoor movie/Theatre in the fall.
My 14 year old Atlantic Technology 350's did decent outside, subwoofer included.
Overall the surround sound totally exceeded my expectations, and the soundstage was more than anyone who came over was expecting as well.

This shows the set-up before the crowd came, with the side and rear surround.


This shows the Frt L/C/R mounted to the garage wall.

[Rob Babcock]

Nice setup!  That would be a lot of fun on nice summer nites.  BTW, Welcome to AC!

[Hipper]

There was an English band called Heron in the 1970s who recorded outside in a field.

If you listen to their CD 'Upon Reflection' (an ironic title!) you can hear birds singing at the ends of the songs.

Might be one for the cold winter nights when you are nostalgic for the warm summers outside.