[buckeyefanandy]

What an INSPIRED choice, Andy 

I owned one (I think maybe it was a Mark II) in 1988-89 and it made some of the sweetest sounds I've heard at my house.  With a Grado at the helm (Grado's enjoy fluid damping and the Townshend has it in the best place I can think of - at the end of the 9" arm) it kicked out some serious tunes.

It had an old Helius Orion as the arm. A nice Rega RB-251 and a <$200 Grado will have that deck singing - and, you, too 

Bass that put CD to shame (still would I think) and smooth as silk with the oft-ragged Grado tames with fluid damping.

Setting in up on feedback resistant base or feet is a MUST.  The masonite/concrete Max uses for the plinth does trap a fair amount of energy in it.

Enjoy, John 

As for the isolation, the deck came with a base from Townsend called the seismic sink. It is a pretty cool looking contraption, not sure if this answers that issue.  I also have a set of the vibrapods coming with a rega wall mount base.  If I need to look another way, then I am all ears.

thanks for the feedback and great advice.

[orthobiz]

" I'm a little pimp with my hair gassed back.........pair a kakhi pants and my shoes shined black"

I know
I know
You're Captain Beefheart!

Paul

[TheChairGuy]

Cool on the seismic sink. I think that may have made it's appearance on Max Townshend's 3rd iteration of his classic Rock table 

I think the bladders go on those Seismic sinks...but if it works, that and should provide the ample feedback isolation this great deck needs.

Marc/BaMorin's $170 offer for a NOS Grado G1+ body and 8MZ seems swimmingly good.  I have a Grado Gold1 with G1+ stylus and it's spectacular - in most respects that matter to me the finest cartridge I own (and I either own or have auditioned several MUCH more costly)

I'm not here to pimp for Marc's little side business....but, it's probably a decision in higher fidelity that you'll enjoy if it's in your budget after the purchase of deck and arm.  Grado's THRIVE on fluid damping and no deck has a better use of fluid damping than The Rock

Enjoy, John

[buckeyefanandy]

I have folks that have offered to sell arms that range from ,origin OL-1, michell, and several regas, and Origin Encounter, and a Hadcock 228.

These have ranged from $250 to $450 with one I was asked to make an offer.  Any of these stand out as a good match to the grado?

[TheChairGuy]

I have folks that have offered to sell arms that range from ,origin OL-1, michell, and several regas, and Origin Encounter, and a Hadcock 228.

These have ranged from $250 to $450 with one I was asked to make an offer.  Any of these stand out as a good match to the grado?

I'd imagine the Origin Live Encounter is a Mk. I?  Not anything wrong with that, but it's a higher line arm than the Origin Live OL-1.  I think the OL-1 is merely an upgraded Rega RB250...while the Encounter is a purpose made arm by Origin Live.

They both use Rega mounting plate you have so you'd save that cost (also the Michell and Regas of course)...but I think the Hadcock requires another sized mounting plate and thus more expense for you.

You'll do okay with any of the Rega, OL-1 or Michell arms offered I think...I'd choose based on budgetary constraints considering whatever you have budgeted in for your cartridge.

As far as a match for Grado go...the Encounter may well be a little heavier than required for Grado cartridges as I think OL tilts their higher end offerings to users of moving coils mostly.  The OL-1, Rega and Michell would be a little lighter and likely a little better suited (and cheaper for you).  I think the OL-1 and Michell are already rewired with nicer internal wiring and rca's...a weak spot for bone stock Regas of old.

Once an arm is used, you generally won't lose much on resale if you want to trade up at some point.  Start somewhere and with that neat Rock you now own, you should be playing pretty good tunes there

John

[Wayner]

Grados have a compliance rating of 20, so they are best matched with lighter arms.

 

Wayner 

[Photon46]

With trepidation, and donning flame retardant suit, I'd opine that there's been a good bit of theoretical nay-saying about matching Grados and mid mass arms that flies in the face of dealer and manufacturer recommendations. I've used Grado Sonatas and Master cartridges in VPI JMW9 (11 grams effective mass,) Rega 300, and now an Audiomods arm without any hint of a mismatch. Harry Westfield of VPI has recommended the Grado Sonata as one of his best picks for the VPI arms and the designer of the Audiomods arm also recommends them as a fine match. Stepping out on a suppositional limb here, I would wonder why it is that if the majority of modern arms are mid-mass designs ill matched to the Grados, Grado would deliberately maintain a higher compliance that rendered them unsuitable to the majority of currently manufactured arms? I don't dispute the physics of IDEAL effective mass and cartridge matching, but it seems to me that this can all be obsessed over to a degree that scares folks away from arm/cartridge combos that are going to work wonderfully, even if they are not theoretically ideal. One knowledge gap in my reasoning (or lack thereof) is not knowing if the less expensive Grado cartridges being recommended to the original poster differ in their suspension characteristics from the Grados I've used. I know they all have a compliance spec of 20, but sometimes numbers don't tell the whole story.

[dlaloum]

I did stress in my other posting (in the other related thread) that there is more than one perspective on the "ideal" resonance/matching issue.

The other things to keep in mind

1) This TT should be pretty good in terms of isolation from external vibration (footfall etc...) - so a higher (than ideal) arm should work fine - resulting in a lower resonant frequency - which according to Peter Pritchard should proved better sound (he was a proponent of the Ideal resonant frequency being around 6Hz)

2) The arm will be oil damped - which widens the cartridge matching parameters and allows a broader choice of arms.

Given the above - any of the arms mentioned will work well.

But the Hadcock is inherently (theoretically) a better match for the Grado.

All the Grado's I've checked the specs on seem to have 20cu as their compliance.

There are plentiful reports of the "Grado Dance" - which I believe to be due to quite common problems with arm/cartridge mismatches - having a damped arm pretty much completely eliminates this issue.

I still would not match a Grado with a high mass arm - but none of the arms being discussed are in that category.

bye for now

David

P.S. - I think the Grado is a good choice - the insensitivity to capacitance/cable issues makes life easier too - and the optimal resistive loading of circa 15 to 25k can easily be achieved with most standard phono stages (via double adapter and loading plugs) - but the default setup will sound great.

[BaMorin]

With trepidation, and donning flame retardant suit, I'd opine that there's been a good bit of theoretical nay-saying about matching Grados and mid mass arms that flies in the face of dealer and manufacturer recommendations. I've used Grado Sonatas and Master cartridges in VPI JMW9 (11 grams effective mass,) Rega 300, and now an Audiomods arm without any hint of a mismatch. Harry Westfield of VPI has recommended the Grado Sonata as one of his best picks for the VPI arms and the designer of the Audiomods arm also recommends them as a fine match. Stepping out on a suppositional limb here, I would wonder why it is that if the majority of modern arms are mid-mass designs ill matched to the Grados, Grado would deliberately maintain a higher compliance that rendered them unsuitable to the majority of currently manufactured arms? I don't dispute the physics of IDEAL effective mass and cartridge matching, but it seems to me that this can all be obsessed over to a degree that scares folks away from arm/cartridge combos that are going to work wonderfully, even if they are not theoretically ideal. One knowledge gap in my reasoning (or lack thereof) is not knowing if the less expensive Grado cartridges being recommended to the original poster differ in their suspension characteristics from the Grados I've used. I know they all have a compliance spec of 20, but sometimes numbers don't tell the whole story.

I'm not convinced that a Grado will not work in a heavier arm. I have used them in arms running from roughly 5-12grm. Although, once you pass 14-16 all bets are off. I'm also not convinced about optimum resonate points ( 8-12) as there are some BAS articles from the 70's that contend otherwise. But back to the point. I'm more convinced that the range of light to light-medium arms that a grado will play in, has more to do with the bearing structure and how the bearings and stylus pivot work together. I have not found a Jelco based arm, regardless of mass to allow a Grado cart to perform at it's best. And I have to believe that is due to the bearings. Also, while we're on compliance topic, ( I hope John can chime in here) if memory serves me correct, the G1 and G2 styli were of shibata cut, and closer to a cu rating of 40-45. I know my G2 sang in my mayware arm.

[Wayner]

The compliance chart that I supplied is only a "theoretical" recommendation, and there are always going to be exceptions to every rule. In fact the whole theory is on shaky ground anyway. Things are just too complicated to boil down to a single simplistic chart. However, the chart is handy for throwing out the red flag that their may be compatibility issues. So, with that in mind, I still think it is helpful.

Wayner 

[dlaloum]

Yep - and some arms have the bearings in silicone - ie they have built in damping.... (others use different techniques to provide friction at the bearings without stiction)

Hence (although not immediately or apparently obvious) they match with a wider range of compliances than would appear based on their mass...