[mark funk]

Come on, I was just playing around. I have never flamed any one before     . 




                                                                                         

[Wayner]

Hi Folks,
  Whenever I do some work on a car engine, before I do my hi-speed test, I make damn sure the brakes work.  I trust Frank & his folks take prudent precautions in their work.  Of course, I deserve a smack to the head by Frank for my PC (the term 'Dutch Uncle' was coined for a reason) and do apologize, but are my opinions really moot (or mute) because?
  I had a hi-po clutch assembly put in my car last fall.  The vendor strongly recommended heavier tranny oil to quiet the slight rattle caused by the lighter flywheel.  I asked the vendor (from Atlanta) if maybe I would be better off with the standard lighter oil since I go north into the extreme cold.  He said no. I said why? He said because I'm an engineer.  I changed the oil one month into the winter.  Much better cold shifting, and I don't really care about the small rattle (which, going by that forum, bothers many people).
  One tool all auto mechanics need is a breaker bar.  This increases the torque a person can apply to a nut or bolt by increasing the lever arm.  A banana plug adds what, 2" of lever arm?  Stacked bananas ~ 3-4" lever arm?  Plus the cable sticking out the back of a banana also adds to the lever arm force which acts on the pivot point, ie: where the binding post meets the case wall.  Spade lugs, no lever arm.  Is this significant?  It is when changing tires!
  On an old car forum, a guy was saying that his 'big brake kit' was not just jewelery, but got him around the track faster.  The contrary opinion was that the stock brakes locked up the wheels just fine, so the big stuff was jewelery.  The big brake guy got angry and left.  Thing is, he was right but didn't know the reason why: at hi speeds the big brakes reached threshold braking a millisecond sooner, but at hi speeds this could mean an extra foot of track at the corner apex which could be the difference between spinning and winning.  But when does the greater rotational mass and unsprung weight of bigger brakes overcome this positive factor?  We never had that discussion.
  I'm not telling anyone what is correct, just adding experiences from auto & health disciplines which could be applicable.
  Thanks for the binding post info Wayner.  And I have no probs with the added un-solicitated advice from the good folks here!  Life is too short....

Murf   

We're happy if your happy!

 

[murf]

We're happy if your happy!

 

Cool.  I was beginning to wonder!   

[aln]

Would love to see a picture of the speakers! 

[murf]

 

[murf]

 

[aln]

Nice looking.  It also a good idea to keep the crossover external to the cabinet to allow fine tuning of the caps and other components.  Just don't play it to loud with the new amplifier!

Regards
AL N

[murf]

Hi Al N,
  Oh, I only have the little 350 Fet Ultra+.  Only 200 or so per side Quality Watts...who would object?   

Murf 

[guest1632]

It would be nice if when my clients replace their power cords that they got the hot and ground polarity right so they don't risk killing themselves (or us when we need to service the equipment).

Then the discussion of which wire sounds better is mute.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

You've just given the best reason of all to move to using IEC connectors on your amps. The polarity is already set, and unless you are some dumb DIYer, ... who doesn't know what he or she is doing, ... would be perfectly happy with a good commercial power cord. 

At least this way, Frank with the normal 16 gauge coard you use, as long as no mods are made, if a fire happens in a home the amp's power cord won't be the problem causing the insurance company not to fulfill the insurance policy.

Ray

[Wayner]

The first thing the line side of a power cord sees in all AVA equipment is an appropriately sized fuse. I guess if people want to waste hundreds or thousands of dollars on a stupid power cord, think what that money would do to help someone, say in Japan, for example.

I also find it very interesting that the very people that have to have 8 gauge power cords are also tree huggers. Seems to go against the flow, if you get my drift.

 

[srb]

I guess if people want to waste hundreds or thousands of dollars on a stupid power cord, think what that money would do to help someone, say in Japan, for example.

Although I personally think that expensive power cords are money ill spent, I have a problem with the logic.
 
For example, if you're into vinyl, you really only need one turntable to play your records.  I suppose you could then also say "if people want to waste hundreds or thousands of dollars on multiple turntables, they might stop and think what that money would do to help someone, say in Japan, for example".

And so on.  In the end, you could also say that any money people spend in their lives that is not in direct support of basic food, shelter or health might be better spent in helping others.

I also find it very interesting that the very people that have to have 8 gauge power cords are also tree huggers. Seems to go against the flow, if you get my drift.

That is very interesting.  Although there are no studies on this subject that I know of, my impression is just the opposite.
 
I think that people that have 8 gauge power cords are more likely to have a pair of 1000W monoblocks consuming > 400W at idle on 24/7, or an extra 6.4kWh per day based on 16 hours idle time.  Just the opposite of a tree hugger.
 
And that > $20 month (based on a national average $0.11/kWh) could certainly help someone less fortunate.  In Japan.
 
Steve

[Wayner]

I have many TTs because they are part of my business. One is strictly used for final testing of Longhorn cartidges. My Empire was bought by me with my lawn mowing money when I was a kid. Some of the others are always for sale to locals here that are getting into vinyl. I also use them to study the very nature of the beast and hense, My CAT-TWO alignment tool.
 
Pairing up an 8 guage power cord to a 13 watt preamp is a waste of finite natural resources. If everyone decided to do that, we'd run out of copper. That is why we have engineering. Frank doesn't use 16 gauge wire to go from the RCA jacks to the preamp boards, cause it isn't necessary.
 
Using "Lincoln welder" size speaker cables is also a waste. Sure, there are lots of people that want to convience you that with smaller, cheaper cables, your robbing yourself of the micro details in the music. That, my friend, is called "marketing".
 
It is your money, and certainly, you can purchase what ever you wish, but for me, I try using the scientific, or engineering methodology, rather then let my heart or emotions make decisions on "way out there" interconnects, power cords and speaker wires.
 
Wayner

[srb]

My point is that you can give valid reasons (that I agree with) for not spending $$$ on over-engineered or marketing-hyped power cords, interconnects or speaker wire.  But I can't really make judgements on a person's specific purchase of an item as far as its use of finite natural resources or that the money might be better used for charity.
 
I know I buy things in my life that uber power cord consumers might find "stupid", superfluous, wasteful or misappropriated.
 
Steve
 
 

[guest1632]

My point is that you can give valid reasons (that I agree with) for not spending $$$ on over-engineered or marketing-hyped power cords, interconnects or speaker wire.  But I can't really make judgements on a person's specific purchase of an item as far as its use of finite natural resources or that the money might be better used for charity.
 
I know I buy things in my life that uber power cord consumers might find "stupid", superfluous, wasteful or misappropriated.
 
Steve

Hi Steve,

Well, now that we are way off topic, my comment as to the IEC connector and the various flavors of power cords was sparked (no pun intended) by Frank's comment. I am not getting in to the power cord debate here. All I was simply saying was that his comment was the best reason to then use an IEC receptacle, rather than a fixed cord. Then people wouldn't have to figure out which was ground or hot. Or should I be more correct to say neutral and hot.

It does seem to me if you are gonna use spade lugs, then look around for the insolated kinds. Seems like that would solve this whole thing. Banana plugs cascaded together make for a need to have some room for multiple usage. Insolated spades don't. Just my opinion.

There is something to be said about using a 16 gauge power cord coming from a transformer that uses say 20 or 22 gauge wire inside, leading out to say an 18 or maybe at most 16 gauge piece of lead wire. Whoever said audio was logical? lol.

Ray Bronk

[trackball02]

Hey everyone, let's stay on the topic about AVA Binding Post Specs, instead of turning this into rants about power cords which is appropriate and uncalled for. I can not follow what every body is talking about.

As for me, I just used used the gold plated banana plugs from RadioShack (8.00 per pair), which accepted the bare wire from my 12 g Monster speaker wire, and it works great with my Ultravalve.

see:  http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2123188

[murf]

The first thing the line side of a power cord sees in all AVA equipment is an appropriately sized fuse. I guess if people want to waste hundreds or thousands of dollars on a stupid power cord, think what that money would do to help someone, say in Japan, for example.

I also find it very interesting that the very people that have to have 8 gauge power cords are also tree huggers. Seems to go against the flow, if you get my drift.

 

   Wayner,  If connected backwards, what does the line side (power side?) see first?

  I don't know why you all want to talk about expensive power cords in this thread of mine.  Let's stick with easy stuff like comparing medical research institute equipment & environments with my living room stuff!   
  My DIY from Belden 12ga cable cost less than what it costs to mail my amp one way to Frank for the "+" upgrade (the upgrade being worth the price).
  Coming from the automotive D/C world, I thought A/C current alternated between the wires (like those push/pull merry-go-rounds that rotate in one direction), rather than having a hot and cold!  Even highly educated    people can make stupid mistakes, let me tell you...a guy who said he went to electrician school helped me make the cord (should have suspected ill since he was my doorman)!   

  As for that 'tree hugger' generality, Hmmm.  I could probably use an amp with less power, make more efficient speakers, etc.  My cdplayer has the on/off button on the back because they don't think it should ever be turned off.  I don't think tree huggers would design like that, but I wouldn't say most audiophiles are gross energy wasters!  I just don't know, and we all make our own choices.  Some people drive SUVs, live in large stand-alone houses, can't find a subway...etc.   

Murf

[Wayner]

The switch, and then the torodial . The bad thing is that it doesn't see the fuse. No good.

Wayner 

[Wayner]

My tree-hugger comment has perhaps been mis-understood. It does seem to me that lots of people here at AC or environmentalists. That said, they seem to not have a problem buying huge power cords for their components. This seems to go against the grain of an environmentalist. I kind of am one myself, that is why I let the power cord be the size that engineering tells us. Not only does it make engineering sense, it makes environmental sense, by not wasting finite resources on what (IMHO) are foolish endeavors.

I guess, just call me old fashioned.

Wayner 

[murf]

Wayner,  If only we could eliminate all foolish endeavors!
  No dis intended, but isn't a power cord sort of small fish in the 'finite resources' world?  I can see getting pissed if some dummy gets hurt by bad PC construction, at not seeing any engineering sense, or at single commuters in huge SUVs revving their engines, but...a wire as an environmental problem?    
  Yo, old fashioned, my Gramps used to save old string....

Murf

[avahifi]

Actually the AC circuit is first the fuse, then the power switch, then the power transformer, and finally back to AC ground.

This way any internal failure blows the fuse.

If the AC is wired in reverse polarity, then the fuse is last and a short to ground ahead the fuse will put hot AC on the chassis.  Not a good idea.

Frank