[ooheadsoo]

I tried to make my first pot roast this last Saturday.  Did a long slow braise for roughly 6 hours in a Dutch oven at between 200 and 225 for the majority of the time.  seasoned with slap ya mama, seasoning salt, and a bit of pepper, seared until dark brown on all sides.  Oh yeah, It was two pieces of chuck roast totaling 2.5 lbs and some short ribs.  I made roughly 5 incisions into each piece of chuck and inserted halved cloves of garlic.  It was seasoned on wednesday night and pulled out to come to room temp on sat morning.

The short ribs were fall off the bone tender.  The chuck was fall apart tender on the outside. but the center was still dry.  I'm assuming i needed more than 6hours for the chuck.

I made 3 sauces, a mushroom gravy, a vegetable gravy, and a red wine reduction.  All three sauces were pretty good or at least palatable.

Here's the problem: the meat had no flavor at all.  It was just bland.  The juices from the braise were plenty tasty, if a little flat probably because I didnt use a lot of herbs, but the meat wasn't beefy at all.

Too much liquid?  I did use quite a lot of wine and stock, almost 1 quart of stock and 2/3 bottle of cheap merlot.

[soundbitten1]

Was it supermarket beef shot full of hormones and who-knows-what? I started buying beef from a local farmer a few years ago and the taste difference from supermarket beef was like day and night. The same goes for any meat ... pork, chicken, lamb. If you can find a good local source you are better off.

[ooheadsoo]

I got the beef from Vons.  This being Los Angeles, I don't think there are very many local sources of meat nearby.  I haven't heard of other people complaining about the meat at Vons, and it wasn't even cheap, being $5/lb.

[soundbitten1]

Do you have a Whole Foods Market? I believe their beef is grain fed, hormone free. I can't think of any other reason why the beef would have no flavor.

[ooheadsoo]

Hm, the nearest Whole Foods is 20 some odd miles away, maybe 30.  I was hoping to get some results from a cheap piece of meat...not really looking to pay through the nose.  I sure hope it's not because the meat at Vons was no good.

Maybe this will clarify my problem - the meat wasn't even salty, not to mention the lack of beef flavor.  The sauces were all fine, although I did add salt to it after I was shocked by the lack of flavor.  Is it too much to hope that I just didn't salt the meat enough?

Another question - was I going overboard by trying to braise a 4+" thick piece of chuck?  The thing is, I thought the short ribs were bland, too, even though they were definitely tender.

[Chromisdesigns]

I tried to make my first pot roast this last Saturday.  Did a long slow braise for roughly 6 hours in a Dutch oven at between 200 and 225 for the majority of the time.  seasoned with slap ya mama, seasoning salt, and a bit of pepper, seared until dark brown on all sides.  Oh yeah, It was two pieces of chuck roast totaling 2.5 lbs and some short ribs.  I made roughly 5 incisions into each piece of chuck and inserted halved cloves of garlic.  It was seasoned on wednesday night and pulled out to come to room temp on sat morning.

The short ribs were fall off the bone tender.  The chuck was fall apart tender on the outside. but the center was still dry.  I'm assuming i needed more than 6hours for the chuck.

I made 3 sauces, a mushroom gravy, a vegetable gravy, and a red wine reduction.  All three sauces were pretty good or at least palatable.

Here's the problem: the meat had no flavor at all.  It was just bland.  The juices from the braise were plenty tasty, if a little flat probably because I didnt use a lot of herbs, but the meat wasn't beefy at all.

Too much liquid?  I did use quite a lot of wine and stock, almost 1 quart of stock and 2/3 bottle of cheap merlot.

Here's my take -- cooked too long and probably too much liquid.  Here's how I do mine, they come out juicy and flavorful:

Bring meat to room temp.  Pat dry, dredge in flour with salt and pepper, shake off excess.  Heat fat (I use olive oil) in heavy kettle or dutch oven over med-high heat, brown roast on all sides quickly.  Remove from pot, add an onion chopped fine to the fat and lower heat, cook about 5-10 minutes until onions are soft and caramalized a bit.  Add back the meat, add liquid of your choice to about 1/2 way up on the roast.  Add whatever seasonings you like.  Cover and either simmer for about 3 hours or put in oven at 325 for the same amount of time.  Turn every half-hour, add liquid if needed.  When roast is fork tender, remove from oven, wrap in foil, and let rest for 1/2 hour.  Make gravy or sauce with reduced pan liquids, slice and serve.

I like cross-rib roast for pot roast, but blade chuck or sirloin tip is good too.  Short ribs are divine!  For braising liquid, try beef stock with 1/2 cup of red wine and a dash of balsamic vinegar.

[ooheadsoo]

Really, cooked too long?  I would imagine that it would be the inside that would be the most moist while the outside dried up, if I cooked it too long.  Also, the short ribs, which were obviously much smaller than the two hunks of chuck, were tender enough to cut with a fork.  I suspect the fibers deep inside the chuck chunks did not have time to absorb the collagen turned gelatin.  My braising liquid was indeed beef stock and red wine.  Meat was covered to about the 3/4 point and pot was covered.  All three sauces were made from the pan liquids.  The sauces were fine.  The meat was not.

I do think there was too much liquid, lesson learned.  I also meant to coat the meat in flour, but forgot in the heat of the moment.

The chuck was chuck cross rib roast, if that makes a difference.  I will definitely add less vegetables and less liquids next time.  I had 1.5 very large onions, about 5 red potatos, 2 large mexican green peppers, slightly on the hotter side of mild, and 2 or 3 carrots.

[soundbitten1]

Did you salt the meat before cooking instead of after? That would make a difference.

[rollo]

Did you salt the meat before cooking instead of after? That would make a difference.

  Yes salt and pepper before browning. pot roast can be dry at times . It is a good idea to cook the meat without veggies then add later.
   your method sounds fine. Next time try a rump roast. Grass fed or organic. You will taste bef .


charles

[Ericus Rex]

I've had some roasts come out "Great!", some come out "eh....," using meat from the same source and cooked the same way.  Supermarkets have to source from multiple locations and I can only guess that this is the reason some roasts are better than others.  Your cooking method sounds fine to me.  I would guess that if you did everything exactly the same (same source too) the next roast will taste different, hopefully better.

[Rick Craig]

Dennis Murphy makes a mean brisket roast but I'm not sure if you can wrestle the recipe from him. 

[sts9fan]

How long did it sit before serving?  Brasied meat can dry out fast if let to set outside the brasing liquid for even a short time. 

[Dan Driscoll]

I didn't see anything, so I can't tell you exactly what went wrong, but there are several potential issues based on what you've described.

First, you said 2 pieces of roast, totaling 2.5 pounds. From a cooking standpoint, 2 small pieces don't equal 1 large roast, so they may actually have been over cooked. I know the short ribs came out juicy and tender, but they are a very different cut from chuck roast and will cook very differently.

Another issue with trying to braise small pieces is that it is very difficult to avoid over-heating the inside of the piece when you brown it. When I'm going to braise a small or flat roast (<2 pounds and/or <2" thick) I sear it in a separate pan with very high heat and only 1-2 minutes on the large sides. I also go right from the fridge to the pan and I don't bother with trying to brown the edges at all. I then transfer the meat to a room temp dutch oven, add my liquid and put it into a 200* oven. With a small or thinner cut I really want to slow down the internal temperature rise of the roast. When I put it in the oven the surface temp may be 400*F, but 1/4" in it's still just 50*F.

I know you said one piece was 4" thick, but if the pieces were about equal weight, a 4" thick piece of chuck would have been almost a cube or ball. Trying to sear a piece like that on all sides is almost certainly going to get the internal temp too high, especially if you left it in the same pan you seared it in.

Personal preference here, but I never cut slits into something I'm braising, especially if it is small. That cut is just another path for heat to get to the interior of the meat faster, which is exactly what you don't want with a braise.

I also prefer to salt and season a beef roast at least 12 hours in advance and preferably 24. Pork 6-12 hours, chicken 2-4. Seasonings applied right before searing are OK if you're doing a blackened dish, but are useless on a braise. They may flavor the liquid, but you might as well put the meat in unseasoned. Seasonings need time to be absorbed into the meat and salt needs at least 4 hours to do its osmosis magic, longer on a larger piece of meat.

Lastly, IMO you used too much liquid. I've found that anything more than halfway up the meat is too much, the meat boils or streams, rather than braising.

Good luck with your next one. 

[rollo]

How long did it sit before serving?  Brasied meat can dry out fast if let to set outside the brasing liquid for even a short time.

  Excellent question and advice. After cut it should be put back into the sauce and sit a bit before serving. I believe you have found the answer. BRILLIANT!!!!

charles

[ooheadsoo]

I seasoned the meat on Wednesday and cooked it on Saturday.  Both pieces of the roast were roughly 4-5" cubes.  Browned on every side on high heat and set aside while I browned the short ribs and then the veggies.  The meat rested in a small pool of its juices for about 1.5 hours before slicing.

I'll post pictures when I get a chance.

Yes,  I'll return to this dish one day.  Im less ckncerned with the dryness and more with the flavor.  I think I'll try some plain roast beef next, choose some other piece of meat that is on sale.

[sts9fan]

rested in a small pool as in submerged?

[ooheadsoo]

nope, the liquid came up maybe just under an inch up the sides of the meat. I had reserved most of it for my three sauces, and time was running out.

[sts9fan]

that was your probem

[ooheadsoo]

but the parts in direct contact with liquid had no flavor, either.  in any case, if I only had enough liquid to cover the meat halfway, how would I ever submerge the meat in liquid?

[sts9fan]

Did a long slow braise for roughly 6 hours in a Dutch oven

My guess is you just rendered out all the fat leaving no flavor (fat).  IMVVVVHO there is no reason to cook such a roast so long or so low.  This is not BBQ.  But the resting was also a problem.  Slice it up and keep it wet.