Where to get fluid for Well Tempered Arm Classic?

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Hikmer

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Where to get fluid for Well Tempered Arm Classic?
« on: 2 Apr 2011, 04:25 pm »
I do not seem to have a source for replacement fluid for my Well Tempered Classic Arm (with LA Mod arm replacement).  I think this was very highly rated and I am not looking to part with it anytime soon, however the lack of being able to buy replacement fluid scares me.  Can I buy this somewhere?  Or are there specific types of fluid I can use that can be purchased at a hardware store?  Would like to buy enough to last me the rest of my life and know what to use in case I was to sell this.  This site sells some http://www.turntablebasics.com/silicone.html but I don't know what to buy..or how much I need...any help is appreciated.

threadkiller

Re: Where to get fluid for Well Tempered Arm Classic?
« Reply #1 on: 4 Apr 2011, 03:20 am »
buy the 100,000 variety.....Mike P had posted that somewhere, but I couldn't find it...good price.  should last a lifetime.

SteveFord

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Re: Where to get fluid for Well Tempered Arm Classic?
« Reply #2 on: 4 Apr 2011, 11:12 pm »
Would you happen to know the weight for the platter as well? 
Thanks for the great information, by the way.

robert_murphy

Re: Where to get fluid for Well Tempered Arm Classic?
« Reply #3 on: 5 Apr 2011, 12:02 am »
Mike Pranka recently told me to use 100% synthetic light weight (5w/20, 5w/30) motor oil for the platter bearing cup.

SteveFord

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Re: Where to get fluid for Well Tempered Arm Classic?
« Reply #4 on: 5 Apr 2011, 12:25 am »
Mobil 1 it is. 
Yes, I know Castrol prevents viscosity breakdown at higher RPMs but I never play 45s, anyways.

threadkiller

Re: Where to get fluid for Well Tempered Arm Classic?
« Reply #5 on: 5 Apr 2011, 12:29 am »
HOLD UP HOLD UP HOLD UP!
I thought Hikmer started the thread asking about fluid for his ARM!  which is NOT the same as the bearing oil.    DO NOT use motor oil for arm fluid cup. 
Totally different. :duh:

SteveFord

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Re: Where to get fluid for Well Tempered Arm Classic?
« Reply #6 on: 5 Apr 2011, 11:16 pm »
Yes, I'm aware that they use different fluids for the arm and platter if that is directed at me.

threadkiller

Re: Where to get fluid for Well Tempered Arm Classic?
« Reply #7 on: 6 Apr 2011, 12:29 am »
Hi Steve....
just wanted to direct the correct answer for the OP.  I didn't see any mention of platter, only arm.
take care....

Flyin_V

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Re: Where to get fluid for Well Tempered Arm Classic?
« Reply #8 on: 29 May 2011, 05:38 pm »
You can use STP oil treatment (if it's still available) in the arm, it's less viscus than the original fluid so you may want to fill the cup slightly higher. Too high a level will overdamp the arm and the highs sound constricted.


threadkiller

Re: Where to get fluid for Well Tempered Arm Classic?
« Reply #9 on: 29 May 2011, 10:32 pm »
Nope, not a recommendation...sorry   :duh:

Flyin_V

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Re: Where to get fluid for Well Tempered Arm Classic?
« Reply #10 on: 30 May 2011, 02:46 am »
You may not recommend it, but in the many years I modified the WTA I did recommend it and many people tried it and liked it including Robert Harley when he was with Stereophile and was using the WTA. Not trying to start a debate, only stating a personal recommendation based on many hours of WTA tweaking.

Good listening... :D

threadkiller

Re: Where to get fluid for Well Tempered Arm Classic?
« Reply #11 on: 30 May 2011, 03:01 am »
You, too! :icon_lol:

I think for someone looking for what the arm should sound like they should start with the standard.  Tweaking is just that, and sometimes it's a real improvement, sometimes a perceived one, or sometimes just personal taste.

That's why i said I didn't recommend it.

cheers!

Flyin_V

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Re: Where to get fluid for Well Tempered Arm Classic?
« Reply #12 on: 30 May 2011, 06:37 am »
Hickmer,

You can actually try just about any fluid you like in your search to find the exact viscosity that works well (neither under damping or over damping) with your arm/cartridge combination. I thought motor oil was too thin and that the original silicon fluid overdamped the arm which is why I switched to and recommended to my customers STP instead. There is nothing magic about silicon fluid.

If you're not interested in exploring alternative fliuds and want to stay with original silicon, why not call the distributor and get some?

What is the LA mod you speak of? Carbon fiber armtube?

Thanks.
« Last Edit: 31 May 2011, 02:24 am by Flyin_V »

Mike Pranka

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Re: Where to get fluid for Well Tempered Arm Classic?
« Reply #13 on: 31 May 2011, 04:01 pm »
Ok- Here's the info: and from Bill Firebaugh to my ears, not my opinion, etc..

The tone arm gets 100,000 cSt 100% silicone. The main bearing originally got "Dow Corning 200 Fluid" which I believe is 50 cSt silicone, based on looking at the Dow Corning site. Now Firebaugh uses synthetic motor oil for the main bearing and says that exact viscosity is not critical- this is for both the earlier 'tables and the current ones. He says the synthetic motor oil works at least as well and is easily obtained.

The vial of silicone shown in the link above looks a bit small and seems aimed at use for a tone arm. One vial might or might not be enough material for the cup on a WTL tone arm. With respect to using other fluids for the tone arm, Firebaugh sorted out a long time ago what works. I'd suggest using the correct fluid and adjusting damping as needed.

Is that it? Let me know if any of that needs clarification.

Mike


ACHiPo

Re: Where to get fluid for Well Tempered Arm Classic?
« Reply #14 on: 20 Feb 2016, 07:19 pm »
Ok- Here's the info: and from Bill Firebaugh to my ears, not my opinion, etc..

The tone arm gets 100,000 cSt 100% silicone. The main bearing originally got "Dow Corning 200 Fluid" which I believe is 50 cSt silicone, based on looking at the Dow Corning site. Now Firebaugh uses synthetic motor oil for the main bearing and says that exact viscosity is not critical- this is for both the earlier 'tables and the current ones. He says the synthetic motor oil works at least as well and is easily obtained.

The vial of silicone shown in the link above looks a bit small and seems aimed at use for a tone arm. One vial might or might not be enough material for the cup on a WTL tone arm. With respect to using other fluids for the tone arm, Firebaugh sorted out a long time ago what works. I'd suggest using the correct fluid and adjusting damping as needed.

Is that it? Let me know if any of that needs clarification.

Mike
I know this is a really old thread, but hopefully some of you folks are still around and monitor this forum.  After the disaster of moving my turntable (the movers constructed a very solid, well padded crate, then proceeded to turn it on its side so all fluids ran everywhere), the local turntable shop in my new locale repaired it.  They used 120,000 molecular weight silicone, which appears to have the correct viscosity of 100 cst, but it is really thick--like warm creamy peanut butter thick.
http://www.ofna.com/acc-fluids.html


My question is:  I am getting wildly varying VTF readings (1.60 g - 2.1 g) using a digital balance depending on how the arm is moved into position to take the measurement, i.e. the damping fluid in the cup seems to have a significant effect on VTF.  The fluid level is barely over the paddle.  I've tried submerging the paddle lower and the effect seems to be worse (plus I don't like the sound as much), and raising the paddle such that the top is above the surface (the sides are still submerged) doesn't help.

Has anyone else seen this?  Should I try lower viscosity fluid in the cup?

Evan

GentleBender

Re: Where to get fluid for Well Tempered Arm Classic?
« Reply #15 on: 20 Feb 2016, 07:47 pm »
I know this is a really old thread, but hopefully some of you folks are still around and monitor this forum.  After the disaster of moving my turntable (the movers constructed a very solid, well padded crate, then proceeded to turn it on its side so all fluids ran everywhere), the local turntable shop in my new locale repaired it.  They used 120,000 molecular weight silicone, which appears to have the correct viscosity of 100 cst, but it is really thick--like warm creamy peanut butter thick.
http://www.ofna.com/acc-fluids.html


My question is:  I am getting wildly varying VTF readings (1.60 g - 2.1 g) using a digital balance depending on how the arm is moved into position to take the measurement, i.e. the damping fluid in the cup seems to have a significant effect on VTF.  The fluid level is barely over the paddle.  I've tried submerging the paddle lower and the effect seems to be worse (plus I don't like the sound as much), and raising the paddle such that the top is above the surface (the sides are still submerged) doesn't help.

Has anyone else seen this?  Should I try lower viscosity fluid in the cup?

Evan
This is where I picked up a couple of different cst choices cheap. I haven't tried any yet, but I like having things on hand if I chose to go in a different direction with cartridges. I believe there are more with a different search. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0095p?FVSEARCH=%3Cb%3Esil%3C%2Fb%3Eicone+diff+oils

threadkiller

Re: Where to get fluid for Well Tempered Arm Classic?
« Reply #16 on: 20 Feb 2016, 07:58 pm »
Hi Evan,
I'm not sure what's happening in the first part of your question. The i.e. part is a most definite yes.
Sounds like your paddle is close to right. Do not submerge it- you've found out how damped down it sounds then, to me very blah. The arm should have a certain feel, or drop, if you will, when it's right.
One thing to start with that I haven't seen mentioned on here is to get a lined index card, put it on a record which is on the platter, and align the tonearm to be parallel with the index lines. That'll be a good place to start.
Good luck!

ACHiPo

Re: Where to get fluid for Well Tempered Arm Classic?
« Reply #17 on: 20 Feb 2016, 10:54 pm »
Hi Evan,
I'm not sure what's happening in the first part of your question. The i.e. part is a most definite yes.
Sounds like your paddle is close to right. Do not submerge it- you've found out how damped down it sounds then, to me very blah. The arm should have a certain feel, or drop, if you will, when it's right.
One thing to start with that I haven't seen mentioned on here is to get a lined index card, put it on a record which is on the platter, and align the tonearm to be parallel with the index lines. That'll be a good place to start.
Good luck!

How much tracking force (VTF, not VTA) variability do you see with your arm?  I'm wondering if the fluid the guy used that repaired my 'table after the move is actually significantly more viscous than 100k cst, and that is causing the VTF variability?  The fluid claims to be 120k molecular wt which should correspond to about 100k cst, but it seems really thick.

Regarding VTA, I picked up a Feickert protractor and Adjust+ software/disk, which works well with the peculiarities of the WTT tonearm.  The biggie is to make sure the paddle is centered in the cup (as I'm sure you know).

Evan

threadkiller

Re: Where to get fluid for Well Tempered Arm Classic?
« Reply #18 on: 20 Feb 2016, 11:14 pm »
The 100,000 is very thick. If I were you I'd wipe it all out and start over. As Mr P has stated time and time again, Mr F has figured all this out for us. Deviate at your own peril.

Yes. Paddle, ball, your big toe, everything in the middle. If that's off you might as well own a VPI.
And regarding damping, once all is filled, and centered correctly, then it's your cup that you adjust, by ear. Get that Allen key out. Again, after your arm is parallel, etc .

Get the real goo. That Aussie goo sounds bad from here.

ACHiPo

Re: Where to get fluid for Well Tempered Arm Classic?
« Reply #19 on: 21 Feb 2016, 05:06 am »
The 100,000 is very thick. If I were you I'd wipe it all out and start over. As Mr P has stated time and time again, Mr F has figured all this out for us. Deviate at your own peril.

Yes. Paddle, ball, your big toe, everything in the middle. If that's off you might as well own a VPI.
And regarding damping, once all is filled, and centered correctly, then it's your cup that you adjust, by ear. Get that Allen key out. Again, after your arm is parallel, etc .

Get the real goo. That Aussie goo sounds bad from here.
It's not Aussie goo, and I'm confused--Bill Firebaugh recommends 100k cst, as did you in an earlier post.  What is your recommendation?  What variation do you see in VTF?