1.7 Review

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SteveFord

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1.7 Review
« on: 29 Mar 2011, 11:26 pm »
I finally bit the bullet and ordered some new speaker which are en route, this space reserved for impressions and review.
I'll be able to compare them to 1.6s and 3.6s so stay tuned.

AVnerdguy

Re: 1.7 Review
« Reply #1 on: 29 Mar 2011, 11:35 pm »
Well congratulations. I'll be interested to hear someone else impressions

SteveFord

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Re: 1.7 Review
« Reply #2 on: 3 Apr 2011, 11:49 am »
This has been put on hold due to life getting in the way.
Perhaps my mad money situation will pick up a bit by this Summer if I behave myself.
That behaving part, I dunno, it doesn't sound like much fun.

SteveFord

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Re: 1.7 Review
« Reply #3 on: 8 Apr 2011, 10:15 am »
Big box showed up after all...

AVnerdguy

Re: 1.7 Review
« Reply #4 on: 8 Apr 2011, 02:25 pm »
Big box showed up after all...

Actually, that is my one complaint about the 1.7s. Both come in a single box! Very heavy and hard to manage. I know the guys are frugal but it would be nice if they packaged them separately. OK, now that I have that off my chest - waiting for your review and your rant about the useless silly little feet  :wink:

BaMorin

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Re: 1.7 Review
« Reply #5 on: 8 Apr 2011, 09:45 pm »
Actually, that is my one complaint about the 1.7s. Both come in a single box! Very heavy and hard to manage. I know the guys are frugal but it would be nice if they packaged them separately. OK, now that I have that off my chest - waiting for your review and your rant about the useless silly little feet  :wink:


Good thing ya didn't have to wrassle a pair of 3.6s.  When I sent my pair back for rehab 2 years ago, the shipping guy says.......we're not allowed to come into the home.........yeah right, and I was supposed ta drag them outside?   Bribery I tell ya........one of mans best tools.

AVnerdguy

Re: 1.7 Review
« Reply #6 on: 8 Apr 2011, 09:59 pm »
Thanks - I'll keep that in mind when I get the new 3.7s I just put on order. Bribery.....good plan.

SteveFord

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Re: 1.7 Review
« Reply #7 on: 8 Apr 2011, 11:39 pm »
Fat guys will do just about anything for a ham and cheese sandwich.
I'll be hooking them up shortly after I put on those DAMNED LITTLE FEET!!!
3.7s?  Good for you!

So far, they do NOT require the lengthy break-in that the earlier models required.  I'm sure that they'll get better but they don't sound well, not so wonderful, right out of the box.
They sound really good!
A little rock and roll is in order at the Ford household, I think.
« Last Edit: 9 Apr 2011, 12:42 am by SteveFord »

BaMorin

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Re: 1.7 Review
« Reply #8 on: 9 Apr 2011, 04:07 am »
Fat guys will do just about anything for a ham and cheese sandwich.
I'll be hooking them up shortly after I put on those DAMNED LITTLE FEET!!!
3.7s?  Good for you!

So far, they do NOT require the lengthy break-in that the earlier models required.  I'm sure that they'll get better but they don't sound well, not so wonderful, right out of the box.
They sound really good!
A little rock and roll is in order at the Ford household, I think.

Find a good non-radio station........lots and lots of static.......crank em up a bit and head off to work or camping/ fishing etc.  Burn em in when your not at home.  Nothing like all frequency white noise to loosen stuff up.

satfrat

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Re: 1.7 Review
« Reply #9 on: 9 Apr 2011, 04:14 am »
This thread should have been titled Preview of a 1.7 Review. :jester: 
 
I'll have to keep an open eye out for one, and I hope it'll come with pictures of course.  8)
 
 
Cheers,
Robin

SteveFord

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Re: 1.7 Review
« Reply #10 on: 10 Apr 2011, 09:02 pm »
Okay, here it is.
There's been a ton of stuff about the 1.7s so a few weeks back I took a ride down to my local dealer to hear what all of the fuss was about and see how they stacked up against my 1.6s which I've listened to daily for the past three years.
I bought along Frank Zappa's Apostrophe as I've heard it a million times and it has a bit of everything on it.
What I heard at the dealer's was a bit underwhelming: a very wide soundstage, the vocals sounded great and just came out of nowhere but there was no top end whatsoever.  The guitar should sound like a razor but this was just flat. 
I stayed for a bit and then left really disappointed.  Was it the room?  Was it the equipment?  Was it the speakers?  What's the deal?

So, last week I bit the bullet and got some 1.7s.
To give some frame of reference, amps are VTL 300 DeLuxe monoblocks with fresh Winged C tubes, the preamp is a Sonic Frontiers SFL-2 with fresh tubes of some sort of unknown Russia brand from the tubestore, the CD player is a Jolida JD100 with Sovtek tubes, speaker cables are Kimber 4TC, interconnects are custom made silver, the turntable is a Well Tempered with an Ortofon 2M Black cartridge w/ a Jolida JD9 phonostage w/ Sovtek tubes and there's a small NHT sub.
It's not the latest and the greatest but it all works well together.
The room itself is a kind of an acoustics nightmare as I converted the attic into the master bedroom so it runs the length of the house and is a bit oddly shaped.  The stairwell presented more than a few problems.


At any rate, the 1.7s can be considered to be a different speaker model than simply an updated 1.6. 
The first tip off should be that the are very specific about setting up the tweeters on the inside.  You'd think that would make the sweet spot about the size of a postage stamp but that's not the case - these have a much wider sweet spot than my 1.6s which I listen to with the tweeters on the outside.
The soundstage is also deeper (if that makes any sense).  VTLs do a really good job of presenting a three dimensional soundstage but the 1.7s do it quite a bit better than the 1.6s.  Picture going from regular headphones to a pair of Stax electrostatics and you've got the idea.
For once I actually was there when the speakers broke in - at about the 5 hour mark this annoying haze just vanished.  Pretty neat.
I'm happy to say that the highs were back and Zappa's guitar had that razor blade sound to it.  The bass was pretty much the same as the 1.6s.
The midrange is MUCH better than my 1.6s and detail resolution is better, too.  Certain things that were always buried in the mix before were brought to the forefront so I was hearing details that I'd never really noticed before.  Oh yeah, there is some piano in there and I don't remember that drum bit - stuff like that.
The sound is more cohesive from top to bottom as well.  I don't know how else to describe it but it sounds like one big speaker, not a couple of different sections. 
The biggest improvement is that to make the 1.6s (and other Magnepans) sound good you need to crank the volume up a bit.  At lower volumes they just don't cut it.  With the 1.7s, they sound really good at lower volumes.
I really like my 1.6s but these are a step up - they did their homework on this one.
I should mention that the 1.6s aren't going anywhere, they're keepers.
This concludes the first installment of my thrilling review.

Next weekend I'm going to lug them downstairs and see how they stack up with a pair of 3.6s.  I'm really curious to see if the soundstage will be large enough and how they'll compare with the ribbons.
« Last Edit: 10 Apr 2011, 11:07 pm by SteveFord »

PDR

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Re: 1.7 Review
« Reply #11 on: 10 Apr 2011, 11:17 pm »
Congrats Steve....sounds like planer heaven.

Davey

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Re: 1.7 Review
« Reply #12 on: 10 Apr 2011, 11:23 pm »
Steve,

The photograph might be a little deceiving but, have you listened to your speakers sitting further forward?  (It looks like you're a long ways away.)

Dave.

SteveFord

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Re: 1.7 Review
« Reply #13 on: 10 Apr 2011, 11:35 pm »
It does look like it's a mile away, doesn't it?
I'd say my butt's 14' back which is where I like it.

jk@home

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Re: 1.7 Review
« Reply #14 on: 11 Apr 2011, 06:10 pm »
Nice review. That's good news about the low level playback ability, I sometimes entertain the idea of defecting to MLs, because of this with my MMGs.

SteveFord

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Re: 1.7 Review
« Reply #15 on: 13 Apr 2011, 02:09 am »
Before I forget, a buddy of mine gave me an NAD integrated amp so as a way of saying thanks I'm burning a bunch of vinyl onto CD-R for him.
I don't know if my ideas on speaker break in are idiotic or not but I always start off with low volumes and gradually work my way on up.
Tonight the volume level has been rising (what?) and the midrange has been getting progressively stronger as more time is put on them.
On this one track on Side 2 of Jefferson Airplane's Volunteers (180 gm), there's a bit where it's just piano.  All of a sudden the piano became much more prominent, it expanded and seemed to rise about 4' into the air. 
Before it was like looking down on the performers but now they're about ear level when I'm seated. 
On another track, Briano Eno's Third Uncle, Phil Manzanera does this guitar solo with a really interesting texture.  I've heard this hundreds of times on quite a few different speakers but tonight, for the first time ever, I realized that it's double tracked with the notes being done on both the B string and (mixed in at a lower volume) on the G string as well.  Before I could never hear exactly what he was doing but it's crystal clear on these speakers.  I believe I went Sonofabitch, so THAT'S what he's doing.
It's going to be really interesting to see how these stack up against the 3.6s this weekend.
One thing that I forgot to mention: like all Magnepans, these really do require a sub.  I had ELP's Pictures At An Exhibition going and where the floor should be rattling, well, it just cut off because they won't go anywhere near that low.

SteveFord

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1.7/3.6 comparison
« Reply #16 on: 17 Apr 2011, 04:37 pm »
Today I tackled the odious task of comparing the 1.7s against the mighty 3.6s to see what there is to see, so to speak.  Could they do the job downstairs?

Before I did that I compared the now broken in 1.7s against the 1.6s with the earlier model in a couple of different configurations: with the mylar reversed (tweeters out), in the normal orientation with tweeters out and normal orientation with tweeters in.

In the end I settled on normal orientation, tweeters on the outside and while they sounded nice enough the 1.6s simply don't offer the same depth and coherency of the 1.7s.  It struck me that the 1.6s were both a bit shrill and lacking in the midbass registers.  This was a surprise as I've always considered the 1.6s to be just tremendous.  Time marches on, I guess.

The downstairs system is pretty much a mirror image of the upstairs but the amps are VTL MB250s (instead of 300s), there's a real subwoofer (SVS instead of that little NHT) and an Otari reel to reel is the analog source (no turntable).






The room is fairly lively sounding but not overly so and a gentlemen brought over some frequency response software and it measured pretty well.  The system sounds really good to my ears.

Enough gab.

After letting the system warm up for a half hour, I put on Frank Zappa's Apostrophe at a moderate level - preamp gain at 9 O'clock which is a notch or two lower than my normal listening level.

The 3.6s do a really great job for soundstage width and height but at this low level the recoding just sounded kind of dull but it did give me some frame of reference.  I'd just burned Apostrophe from the album which I bought back in 1976 or 77 when it first came out.  This copy still sounds great.

MANfully, I lugged these whales out of the room and plugged in the 1.7s and turned the amps back on.  They kind of looked dwarfed




 but sometimes looks can be deceiving so let's hear what they can do.



For the fun of it, here's some python eggs that I'm incubating in the living room as well. 





The Crocodile Hunter's got nothin' on me.  Where was I?  Speaker review.

Ya know, there's no replacement for displacement!  The swirling winds in the intro were on a much smaller scale and all of the performers were shrunken down more than a little bit.  At this low volume level the sound quality was actually better - it didn't sound so lifeless.

Cranked up it sounded really good and did a very nice job of filling the room so enough of these little guys, let's see what the 3.6s can do.

I first tried the big ones with the tweeters on the inside (ugh!) and then swapped them around to how I had them and turned the volume up three notches which is where I cranked the 1.7s to.

Much more better (as they say in the audiophile press).  Huge soundstage, midrange o'plenty and great highs.

To bring this to a close, my initial impressions were correct: the 1.7s are a real step up from the 1.6s but fall short of the 3.6s. 

What I wasn't expecting was for the 1.7s to sound better than the 3.6s at lower volumes but they do.  If you live in an apartment, prefer listening at moderate levels or have a smaller room, the 1.7s would be the way to go.  They're certainly less fatiguing to listen to over a long period and offer tremendous detail - at least on par with the 3.6s, maybe better.

I forgot one thing: if you like your music LOUD, you want the 3.6s as the 1.7s sound kind of strained at elevated levels whereas the 3.6s sound just perfect.

I'm told that the 3.7s are the same as the 1.7s but there's more of it.  Now that would be something!

« Last Edit: 17 Apr 2011, 06:06 pm by SteveFord »

BaMorin

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Re: 1.7 Review
« Reply #17 on: 18 Apr 2011, 02:10 pm »
good read on the 1.7 vs the 3.6.........and I'm quite familiar with apostrophe.  have you tried black napkins and the torture never stops?

The second song is what I've used when trying to get a sub to mate with my 3.6s......hasn't happened yet.

trout2

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Re: 1.7 Review
« Reply #18 on: 26 Apr 2011, 06:25 pm »
Steve - thanks for the notes/review. If you haven't tried them yet, buy a set of Mye Stands for the 3.6R's (can use them for the 3.7R's as well) ... The dynamic range is increased and the bass has more slam. Big - big improvement to my ears. Just a thought...

SteveFord

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Re: 1.7 Review
« Reply #19 on: 20 Jun 2011, 11:45 pm »
A sinister little midget with a bucket and a mop...
I'll give those two Zappa tunes a whirl this weekend as my 3.7s are in and are being delivered this Thursday evening (payday on Friday).
I'm really looking forward to the weekend.
Mye stands for the 1.7s are on my short list but my wallet is going to be flatter than a flounder for a bit.
I do have a set of stands being made be a local welder for the 3.7s. 
He's rather slow but he's cutting me one hell of a deal as we're both local biker scum types so I shan't complain.
I also keep thinking about two cylindrical subs crossed over at 40Hz to mate with the 3.7s and then chuck that big SVS cube upstairs BUT not today.