Visaton 200B and 2x Eminence Alpha 15A

SteveRB · « **on:** 12 Feb 2011, 09:51 pm »

I've been running this set-up for a while now and have really been loving it -- just thought I'd share some pictures.

I would be interested in any feedback that you guys have.

I am running these with my old Eico HF-81.

I'm thinking i may try a H-frame on the two 15s in the next couple weeks.

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 Feb 2011, 09:59 pm »

here, but have you tried angling these in so their axes cross in front of the listeners' position? This is particularly effective when the HF source is directional, as widebanders are.

SteveRB · « **Reply #2 on:** 12 Feb 2011, 10:14 pm »

Quote

have you tried angling these in so their axes cross in front of the listeners' position?

yes, it's really great to play with the angle of the baffle in the room. i sometimes toe them in as much as 12" -- mainly for records with messy stereo production. It can help reduce the distraction form awkward hard-panned recordings. Mono records sound amazing and wide when the baffles are square to the room.

Mr. Oczka · « **Reply #3 on:** 13 Feb 2011, 01:07 am »

Cool setup you have there. Anyway, I'm a newbie at any type of speaker building and am also interested in building a H frame sub using 15 inch driver(s). Do you have any guidelines or measurements that you will use when building your H frame? Thanks, T

SteveRB · « **Reply #4 on:** 13 Feb 2011, 01:40 am »

thanks,
no real guidelines to speak of for H-frames. MJK has a few suggestions relating to the quarter-wave -- i'll probably just start by mocking up a few sidewalls on the baffle i have up in my living room now...

...have i mentioned i live alone?

matevana · « **Reply #5 on:** 14 Feb 2011, 01:08 am »

If you really want to consdier a cool upgrade, replace your 8" visaton with a single point source coaxial driver, such as ones offered by eminence, p-audio, or B&C. I'm currently using an eminence CX2008 8" coaxial woofer with a Morel MDT-20 tweeter in the center. Its fairly effecient, around 92dB 1W/1M and the Visaton's high end simply cant keep up with the Morel. I went to this setup a year ago and never looked back!

Luigi · « **Reply #6 on:** 14 Feb 2011, 02:18 am »

I have a dual B200 OB set up, and single Alpha 15 in H frame each side, with a rear firing tweeter and like that very much as well. Kind of hard to drive but - a wee Virtue Audio 2.2 had hystrionics when hooked up to it - but like its balance a lot. Use an OB 15 inch sub for film stuff. Dont know quite where to go next, but do have four extra B200s on hand.

Guy 13 · « **Reply #7 on:** 14 Feb 2011, 07:14 am »

Quote from: matevana on 14 Feb 2011, 01:08 am

If you really want to consdier a cool upgrade, replace your 8" visaton with a single point source coaxial driver, such as ones offered by eminence, p-audio, or B&C. I'm currently using an eminence CX2008 8" coaxial woofer with a Morel MDT-20 tweeter in the center. Its fairly effecient, around 92dB 1W/1M and the Visaton's high end simply cant keep up with the Morel. I went to this setup a year ago and never looked back!

Hi matevana amd all Audio Circle members.
May I know why you did not use the Eminence ASD:1001 tweeter with your Eminence CX2008?
May I also know what crossover you are using?
Thanks.
Guy 13

aquapiranha · « **Reply #8 on:** 20 Feb 2011, 10:25 pm »

Quote from: astronaut_glen on 12 Feb 2011, 09:51 pm

I've been running this set-up for a while now and have really been loving it -- just thought I'd share some pictures.

I would be interested in any feedback that you guys have.

I am running these with my old Eico HF-81.

I'm thinking i may try a H-frame on the two 15s in the next couple weeks.

Excellent! I built some almost identical... I was running mine active..

bombadil111 · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 Feb 2011, 11:20 am »

A simple, but elegant set-up. Very nice!

Mr. Oczka · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 Feb 2011, 04:42 pm »

I absoutely love the way your setup looks! and have a couple of questions for you.... Are you running this setup as a full range speaker with the 2 woofers running as a sub, or did you design a crossover for it? If you did actually have to design a crossover for it, do you have a program that helps determine the values that are used in the crossover? Thanks from a newbie, Tom

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 Feb 2011, 01:13 am »

Quote from: astronaut_glen on 12 Feb 2011, 09:51 pm

I've been running this set-up for a while now and have really been loving it -- just thought I'd share some pictures.

I would be interested in any feedback that you guys have.

I am running these with my old Eico HF-81.

I'm thinking i may try a H-frame on the two 15s in the next couple weeks.

Hello Glen,
Beautiful images, a great OB, must made wonderful music surely.

Already years Iam looking what is the right inductor value for two Alphas, but no get this info.
I wonder what is the inductor value you are using in this set-up??
Thanks alot, Gustavo

> Never go to a psychiatrist, adopt a cat or dog from the street. On the streets pets live only two years average.

SteveRB · « **Reply #12 on:** 15 Mar 2011, 05:15 pm »

hello,

the Visaton is running full range with a phase plug installed. from there the two alphas are passive with a 2mH inductor. It is so simple that i never bothered with any software -- just tried a few different values and tuned to suit my test. The room and placement changes the character a lot; so i tend to stick with one value and move them around a bit to change the response.

Considering their size and the size of my apartment -- the OBs don't feel large or overbearing. The relative 2-dimentionalness of them keeps them 'small' in the room. The music really is fantastic.

gvimhoof · « **Reply #13 on:** 26 Mar 2011, 06:21 pm »

Greetings!

I just caught this and wanted to compliment you on your speakers. Very nice. I have a Fostex fe103e over one Alpha 15A in an H-Frame and I love it. Going with the H-Frame allowed me to shrink the size of the baffle enough that the overall footprint of mine is only 16"X17".

I was wondering what type of material you made your baffle out of? Since you're talking about modifying, then with the round frames of all drivers in yours, have you considered flush mounting them? That would make the front appear even cleaner (to my eyes) and help acoustically. Also, have you considered U-Frames? That would keep the front nice and clean.

Let us know how you proceed and what your results are!

aquapiranha · « **Reply #14 on:** 26 Mar 2011, 10:45 pm »

Quote from: gvimhoof on 26 Mar 2011, 06:21 pm

Greetings!

I just caught this and wanted to compliment you on your speakers. Very nice. I have a Fostex fe103e over one Alpha 15A in an H-Frame and I love it. Going with the H-Frame allowed me to shrink the size of the baffle enough that the overall footprint of mine is only 16"X17".

I was wondering what type of material you made your baffle out of? Since you're talking about modifying, then with the round frames of all drivers in yours, have you considered flush mounting them? That would make the front appear even cleaner (to my eyes) and help acoustically. Also, have you considered U-Frames? That would keep the front nice and clean.

Let us know how you proceed and what your results are!

You can see that I did in fact flush mount the drivers in mine in another pic. I do not own them any more however...

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #15 on:** 14 Apr 2011, 03:06 am »

Quote from: astronaut_glen on 15 Mar 2011, 05:15 pm

hello,

the Visaton is running full range with a phase plug installed. from there the two alphas are passive with a 2mH inductor. It is so simple that i never bothered with any software -- just tried a few different values and tuned to suit my test. The room and placement changes the character a lot; so i tend to stick with one value and move them around a bit to change the response.

Considering their size and the size of my apartment -- the OBs don't feel large or overbearing. The relative 2-dimentionalness of them keeps them 'small' in the room. The music really is fantastic.

Thanks Glen for your nice detailed reply. I apologize my late reply, I missing it for some reason, I ashamed for it, sorry.

Do you think this 2,0mH inductor had removed the micro dinamic detail or harmonic integrity(that a crossoverless speaker have) from the music(in Alphas)??
Gustavo

> Never go to a psychiatrist, adopt a cat or dog from the street. On the streets pets live only two years average.

Ric Schultz · « **Reply #16 on:** 27 Apr 2011, 09:50 pm »

please see http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=88075.20 for information on making your speaker sound way, way better.

SteveRB · « **Reply #17 on:** 16 Jul 2011, 12:49 am »

Hello,

I've started to plan a new set-up that uses some of the comments above and a few ideas others are working with as well. I plan to use at least a three ply 1" material for rigidity, mass, and to separate the mounting of the Visaton from the Alphas. I'll be posting drawings shortly, but I have a couple questions I'm hoping you guys can help with.

My first question is about time alignment: is there a basic rule/ formula for how far back the Visaton should be mounted relative to the Alpha? My current drawings have the Visaton about 1" back from the Alphas.

I plan to use an analog xo and maybe play around with a digital one in the future.

thanks for any help.

JohnR · « **Reply #18 on:** 16 Jul 2011, 01:10 am »

You may need to measure it acoustically. If you can generate an impulse response then you can find the delay of the impulse from each driver to the microphone, and figure out the difference. Then you can calculate the distance.

Rudolf · « **Reply #19 on:** 16 Jul 2011, 02:10 pm »

Quote from: astronaut_glen on 16 Jul 2011, 12:49 am

My first question is about time alignment: is there a basic rule/ formula for how far back the Visaton should be mounted relative to the Alpha? My current drawings have the Visaton about 1" back from the Alphas.

It depends on the crossover frequency between the two drivers. I'm quite sure you don't crossover above 340 Hz. That would be a wavelength of 1 m. Staying within 10 % of that would be precise enough. So just align the basket fronts and it's well done.

Precise alignment only becomes a problem at higher frequencies - the midranger/tweeter xover for instance. 2 kHz would be 17 cm wavelength. 10% of that would be 1,7 cm.

If you want to align two true dipole drivers, NEVER do it by electronic delay. The only proper way would be mechanical alignment - looking at both the front and rear impulses and calculating from there. Aligning the voice coils almost always is wrong.

Rudolf