[jupejones]

Hi all, I am new to posting on the forums but I have enjoyed reading here for a while. I am wondering if there are any thoughts on low-dollar upgrades that might provide a decent boost to my odd (mostly stereo) system. 

Here is my system - the main speakers and sub are in the process of being built (by me), but they are reusing parts (from a Selah Peridot kit) so I am pretty sure on what they will be like.

Amp - Yamaha AX-596
CD - Marantz CD-5000
Main L&R - Selah Audio kit (Fountek ribbon and 5" SEAS magnesium mid)

Sub - Selah semi-custom kit, four SEAS 8" aluminum drivers with O Audio amp

Cables are pretty basic Monster cables, about $200 all together.


Soooo. . . anyone see any glaring problems I can fix on the cheap? Any help would be appreciated, the fiancee is keeping an eye on my spending so I need to be good


I listen mostly to music so I won't go into my surround gear for movies, essentially I just run a 4-channel setup with a cheap Pioneer surround amp.

[Zerogravity]

You could try one of the less expensive Tube Buffers that will connect between your AVRs inputs and the outputs of any source that you wish to use it with! I have a Solid State and Digital amplifiers, but I was interested in the Tube sound that some people seem to enjoy. For a very low cost the Tube buffers seem like a good idea.

[bpape]

Just my 2 cents - the amp appears to be the weak point in the system.  The Selah's can perform only as well as they're driven and controlled - like any good speaker.  I don't know what 'cheap' is in terms of budget but some careful watching of Audiogon could yield something that would be an improvement. 

Bryan

[richidoo]

Hi jupe! Congrats on your engagement, and thanks for posting!! Welcome to the fun.

Use pure direct analog setting on the Receiver to remove DSP from the high freqs. Then use the speaker level inputs by connecting the sub to one speaker in parallel. Summing two together is usually not as clear as using just a single side. I recommend using right side, so most classical recordings will still work while rock and jazz records have bass in the middle anyway. Then set the sub's crossover settings to sound best with your main speakers. Start with the sub drivers placed the same distance to you as the main speakers' woofers, with the sub phase switch set to 0. Set the filter slope to 24dB. Then adjust the freq and volume to make it disappear as much as possible. Put the sub between the mains up on a speaker stand to get it off the floor for a huge improvement in bass clarity.

Speaker positioning is another thing you can try which doesn't cost anything. Search AC and the web for Cardas golden ratio, Wilson speaker position, and Master Set. You'll find that the distance between the front wall (behind the speakers) and the mains is critical setting that is really important to get right. You can change the whole character of your stereo with the width and the depth from the wall.  Once you get close, the tiniest changes in position and angle can have a huge effect.

So far you have the cost of a length of speaker wire and a speaker stand.   

The weakest part of your system might be the receiver, so a nice audiophile level integrated amplifier would be a good upgrade once the money starts rolling in, like those wedding presents in envelopes. You bought speakers very wisely so you have a long way to go before you outgrow those, and Rick can help you dial in the sub too.

Watch Audiogon for used JPS wires, they are awesome! SCs first, then ICs. I got some ICs for $60.

The last thing would be to get another sub at some point so you can have stereo bass, but it's not essential.

Marantz CD players usually have a lot of opportunities for upgrading. Some had opamp sockets to allow swapping. Some great opamps to try are 5532, LM833. Look up your model on diyaudio.com for ideas. Usually the same mods work in all CDplayers. Power supply, clock, output stage, vibration. Output transformer to replace output opamps is a nice tweak. Ask for help in The Lab when you're ready for that.
Have fun!
Rich

[jupejones]

Thanks much for the thoughtful input (and well wish  )!

I agree, the amp needs the most help, so I will keep an eye out for a used amp. I was also looking into some amp kits. Had not considered passive preamps/buffers, will definitely take a look at those. There seem to be some NAD/Rotel/Adcom amps available at decent used prices on Audiogon, so the Yamaha should be moving on soon I hope.

Thanks also for the tips on system setup! Always cool to get better sound from the same gear. I believe that speakers are particularly critical to a system, and the possibility of saving a ton with a kit sounded great to me, which is why I went with Selah (Rick is a great guy, he is going out of his way to help me with my project). I had not heard about putting a sub on a stand, will experiment with that for sure. Although with a 3 cubic foot box that will require a seriously strong stand!

[roymail]

The Marantz should output 1.5 volts, enough to drive a passive volume control to high volume.  Input impedance needs to be 47k or higher.  I would recommend using the amp input and bypassing the preamp section of the Yamaha.  Upgrading the cd player is a very good idea, especially the opamp and cleaning up the AC.

Here is an affordable, well built passive that uses top end Caddock resistors in shunt mode.
http://www.richardleeaudio.com/index.html

Regarding an kit amp, I'd recommend the Class D Audio SDS-254.  Check out the long AC thread.

Best of luck.

[JLM]

Yes, swap out the receiver.

Check out goodsound.com for lower cost/quality pieces.

And check out virtue amps at their circle below.


When you're ready for new cabling, google Scott Endler (great prices, wonderful quality, all custom work).

[OzarkTom]

JLM is right. A switch to the Virtue One.2 or Two.2 amp will give you the best bang for your bucks.

[Occam]

Regardless of the above advice (much of which is excellent) you're powering your components from AC receptacles. Replace the outlets powering your components with HBL5262 if 15amp, or HBL5662 if on a 20amp circuit. For the subjectivists, they really do 'sound' better than the typical outlet found in the wall, and for the objectivists, they're heavy duty specification grade outlets with a tight grip and lower typical resistance. Pesonally, I use more expensive, fancier outlets, but these are maximum bang for the buck improvements, which will hold you in good stead as your system evolves. They're reasonably priced at stayonline.com -
http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=7088
http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=7087
at $13 & $16 ea respectively, and yes, they have them in different colors.

FWIW

[jimdgoulding]

Hi jupe! Congrats on your engagement, and thanks for posting!! Welcome to the fun.

Use pure direct analog setting on the Receiver to remove DSP from the high freqs. Then use the speaker level inputs by connecting the sub to one speaker in parallel. Summing two together is usually not as clear as using just a single side. I recommend using right side, so most classical recordings will still work while rock and jazz records have bass in the middle anyway. Then set the sub's crossover settings to sound best with your main speakers. Start with the sub drivers placed the same distance to you as the main speakers' woofers, with the sub phase switch set to 0. Set the filter slope to 24dB. Then adjust the freq and volume to make it disappear as much as possible. Put the sub between the mains up on a speaker stand to get it off the floor for a huge improvement in bass clarity.

Speaker positioning is another thing you can try which doesn't cost anything. Search AC and the web for Cardas golden ratio, Wilson speaker position, and Master Set. You'll find that the distance between the front wall (behind the speakers) and the mains is critical setting that is really important to get right. You can change the whole character of your stereo with the width and the depth from the wall.  Once you get close, the tiniest changes in position and angle can have a huge effect.

So far you have the cost of a length of speaker wire and a speaker stand.   

The weakest part of your system might be the receiver, so a nice audiophile level integrated amplifier would be a good upgrade once the money starts rolling in, like those wedding presents in envelopes. You bought speakers very wisely so you have a long way to go before you outgrow those, and Rick can help you dial in the sub too.

Watch Audiogon for used JPS wires, they are awesome! SCs first, then ICs. I got some ICs for $60.

The last thing would be to get another sub at some point so you can have stereo bass, but it's not essential.

Marantz CD players usually have a lot of opportunities for upgrading. Some had opamp sockets to allow swapping. Some great opamps to try are 5532, LM833. Look up your model on diyaudio.com for ideas. Usually the same mods work in all CDplayers. Power supply, clock, output stage, vibration. Output transformer to replace output opamps is a nice tweak. Ask for help in The Lab when you're ready for that.
Have fun!
Rich

Nice post, Rich .

[roymail]

JLM is right. A switch to the Virtue One.2 or Two.2 amp will give you the best bang for your bucks.

If you go for the a Virtue amp, I'd recommend a battery power pack at some point.  You won't be disappointed.  Otherwise, Occam is correct about cleaning up the AC.  The Virtue amp is highly rated, too.

[dflee]

Would like to know how you feel about the equipment you presently have? Your integrated for instance, are you satified with the sound or do you not like it at all? The reason for asking is there are ways to tweek the unit but if you are dissatisfied with the sound then replacement would be a better idea. if you are generally OK with the sound, try a pair of jumpers in pre out to amp in section does make for a really good tweek. Use wood blocks underneath your equipment. Put them under the case (not under the footers) and put some weight on the CDP for an improvement. A really nice and affordable tweek is Jim's diffraction Be Gone.
Good luck and have fun.

Later
Don

[Sam-fi]

My gut feeling is that the amp needs improvement.

1) http://cgi.ebay.com.au/REDGUM-amplifier-SonofaGUM-SG5500-60-60WRMS-/320625683900?pt=AU_Electronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item4aa6c7adbc

2) You may also pick up a used Rawson DIY F3

3) Virtue amps are also great and I can stand by them

4) You may consider a Jolida or tube amp as well.



I wouldn't spend my money on a tube buffer. Those tend to come as final tweaks - in all honesty I would upgrade things like fuses and caps before I add one.
Your source is fine. You may in the future consider powercables or power related tweaks? (IMO they are the cables that matter the most.)

Sam

PS. Finish building your speakers before you go down this path. Rx - listen to your system for 400 hours before you even consider changes. Tweak the placement of your speakers - things like tone and impact and soundstage size/depth can all change with placement.

[jupejones]

Wow, this is really a nice place to ask a question! Lots of great feedback, I really appreciate all the comments and ideas. 

Wow, this is really a nice place to ask a question! Lots of great feedback, I really appreciate all the comments and ideas. 

As far as current gear goes, I have never really liked the sound of my Yamaha too much (a bit "thin" sounding, like all the music isn't there, not much richness), but will wait and see with the new speaker setup. The Marantz player was a very noticeable upgrade over my former Sony one, so that seems ok for now.

I am not certain how well a passive pre-amp would work with a sub using the o-audio amp (I don't have it yet but I believe it has only line-level inputs, dual RCA or single LFE). I think it would require a lengthy (12' perhaps) rca cable run with a passive signal, anyone know if that would be a problem? Are there any active preamps that would be a decent upgrade without costing say, greater than a few hundred?

The Virtue amps do look like an amazing value - if I continue to dislike my Yamaha I will probably go for that next. 

I will definitely take my time and listen before making wholesale changes - it is all about the music anyway right?

[dflee]

Jupe:
Don't come down too hard on the integrated cause it was able to show you the difference the Marantz was able to make. If the unit were not up to snuff, you wouldn't have heard any difference. Talk to others and see if you can borrow a different pair of cables or try a pair that have a trial period. There are many out there. I found they can and do make a difference. I am using Morrow Audio and by joining Mike's tweek group you can get his MA1 for under forty buck with a 60 day trial. Good luck

Later
Don

ps: Those bridge pins aren't helping you any.