[Ben77059]

I am in the market for a new preamp.  I’ve got a Bryston B4 SST2 amp and love it so I want to match it with a Bryston pre. 

I have to buy used (daughter will be starting college next year and wants to go to Pepperdine – anyone have any connections???).  I have been researching and cannot find too many direct comparisons between the BP26 and the BP 16.  The 16 has more inputs but no balanced outputs.  The 26 has balanced outputs and lower IMD/TMD.  Is there really a big difference in sound quality between the two?

I read a comment somewhere where the poster said he heard a big difference between the BP 26 and BP 25.  I saw here where James said the 26 was a “minor” upgrade of the 25.  Has anyone compared these two?  I have not seen a lot of BP 25’s on the used market.

I’ve also read that the preamp on the SP 1.7 is identical to the BP 25.  How would this compare to the BP 26?  It seems there are a lot of 1.7’s on the market and they are going for about $1,000 less than the BP 26.  Is there any down side to using the 1.7 in bypass mode for stereo instead of a BP 25 or 26?

Finally, there is the B 6.  Any opinions?  How does this sound compared to the B16 and 26? 

Thanks and I apologize for all the questions at one time.

P.S. I amd currently using an Arcam C30 pre and Vandersteen 2ce Siig's.

[James Tanner]

I am in the market for a new preamp.  I’ve got a Bryston B4 SST2 amp and love it so I want to match it with a Bryston pre. 

I have to buy used (daughter will be starting college next year and wants to go to Pepperdine – anyone have any connections???).  I have been researching and cannot find too many direct comparisons between the BP26 and the BP 16.  The 16 has more inputs but no balanced outputs.  The 26 has balanced outputs and lower IMD/TMD.  Is there really a big difference in sound quality between the two?

I read a comment somewhere where the poster said he heard a big difference between the BP 26 and BP 25.  I saw here where James said the 26 was a “minor” upgrade of the 25.  Has anyone compared these two?  I have not seen a lot of BP 25’s on the used market.

I’ve also read that the preamp on the SP 1.7 is identical to the BP 25.  How would this compare to the BP 26?  It seems there are a lot of 1.7’s on the market and they are going for about $1,000 less than the BP 26.  Is there any down side to using the 1.7 in bypass mode for stereo instead of a BP 25 or 26?

Finally, there is the B 6.  Any opinions?  How does this sound compared to the B16 and 26? 

Thanks and I apologize for all the questions at one time.

P.S. I amd currently using an Arcam C30 pre and Vandersteen 2ce Siig's.

Ben

Email me at jamestanner@bryston.com. I think one of our dealers has a BP 25 trade in at a very good price.

James

[Ben77059]

Phil, I am interested but cannot reply to your message (maybe because I'm a newbie?).

Please send another message with you email.

Thanks,

Ben

[Phil A]

Phil, I am interested but cannot reply to your message (maybe because I'm a newbie?).

Please send another message with you email.

Thanks,

Ben

Ben - done

[Ben77059]

Phil and James, thanks for all the info you provided via email.  I learned a lot from y'all.

I am surprised that no one chimed in with an opinion of the Bryston pre-amps.  This is a question that would probably be better in a new thread, but I was wondering if most Bryston amp owners user a different brand pre/pro and if so, what brand/model do they use.

[alexone]

Ben,

i have both the 26 and the SP2. i always felt that the SP2's Bypass is very good...but the 26 is slightly a touch better in stereo as i think.
it's more a question of "what you need". so if you want movies + surround sound and your stereo then the SP2 is made for you! i have a Pioneer VSX(forgot the number) surround receiver and all i can say is that the SP2 clearly OUTPERFORMS the Pioneer! man, it has to be heard to be believed . voices, noises and the overall soundstage is much better. but yes, there is one thing i still don't like: if a digital component is connected with the SP2's coax input (cd player for example) it happens that if one song ends and the next song starts you can hear a dropout. i tried to fix it with the code (again forgot the number ) but the hiccup still remains. maybe someone else can help me out here...?!?

hope this helps,

al.

[drummermitchell]

I use an older Arcam AV-8 prepro(which I like,no problems,sounds great to me).
Also use the BP-26 for music,haven't listened to the SP-2,guess I've been content with the AV-8.
Course the new Bryston 3.0 might change all that,at least the AV-8.
A home audition for sure.

[BrysTony]

Ben,
I have a BP-26 which I use with a pair of 7BSST2s and I am completely happy with the synergy.  They will be in my system for a long, long time.  My only planned upgrade is a new set of speakers to fulfill their potential.  I highly recommend the Bryston preamps -- I believe that all of them are quite good.
Tony

[Elizabeth]

Previous preamps I have owned in the past 30 years: (before this it was always integrateds)
NAD $110 entry level preamp (from same dealer i bought the Bryston!)
Hafler Dh110 I built from kit new (loved it, sound was excellent for a $275 kit built with phono...sorry i traded it in)
Sony scrapheap first digital preamp POS.new (Liked it for the gizmos, stopped listening to music as soon as the novelty wore off...I guess you can see it was not as great as advertised?)
Counterpoint 2000 Used (loved it, but it broke down too much, also sorry i ever let it go. Another pre that I really loved the sound of, too bad it never would keep working.)
Adcom ??750 New (the 'audiophile' Adcom. was good, sold it. no problem, Sound was OK, I used it for many years. decent preamp)
Denon Receiver for 5.1 4806 model Demo uber cheap good deal(still have and enjoy, with the Canton 300/360 speakers and a Furman Power conditioner, magical PRAT, the screen functions remote sucks)
Audio Research Sp-10 used (noisy tubes, sold for way more than i paid for it, bought it on a whim locally. was OK, but noisy cheap tubes in it. selling after also got Sp-15 and found the Sp-15 was way more of what i want in a preamp, sold the Sp-10 for more than I paid plus the then free Sp-15  and $300 cash. And i didn't even ask a top price, i knocked $800 off for new tube purchases!)
Audio Research Sp-15 used (basically got for free with extra cash from sale of Sp-10, and the good part is the  Sp-15 is way better sounding than the Sp-10. Still use the Sp-15 for a second phono section and keep around for it's cool factor. This is only slightly below the Bryston BP-26 in performance. a bit less clarity, a little more grunge $7,000. when new...)
Bryston BP-26 and Bp 1.5 phono (current preamp, great! only problem too much gain in BP-26 for digital..  IMO I was spoiled by the Audio research with two gain controls!)
VAC Standard tube preamp (expensive tube buffer for digital otput from my DAC to the Bryston The VAc is below the Sp-15 in clarity and PRAT. It is perfect for the use i have it for at this time. Used and a decent deal. The VAc would be better with a better power cord, actually took the best cord off because it was too good for my use as a grunge hiding device for digital. Still it lacks clarity and a solid focus)
So I have owned a variety of preamps
The three preamps i have currently all have a dedicated separate power supply. (VAC, ARC, and Bryston)
The one additional thing that affects the sound of a preamp IMO is a power conditioner. i have used several, but currently use a $3,500 Furman REF20i for all the analog stuff including the Bryston BP-26 and Bryston 4B-SST2. The conditioning clears up a bit of grain in the top end of any preamp i have used, and really allows the bryston to shine. (i use a Monster 7000SS for the digital, bought it before the Monster lawsuit garbage.. no more Monster for me!)
As for the sound of the Bryston, and why i decided to buy it. It has a great clarity. This is my personal #1 thing I want. The Bryston is neutral beyond other stuff i could afford. i only thought seriously about an Audio Research REF 3, but used it was still a few thousand more than the Bryston new (and i would have hated to leave a REF 3 on 24/7, tubes and all, and then the Bryston warranty, vs no warranty, and buying new sets of $400/$600 tubes every two years..forever..
So i am happy with what i bought. Hope to keep the Bryston for a LONG time. (Unless i win $200,000,000. lotto! then i would buy a 40th annv ARC preamp!)
As for the Bryston Bp 1.5 phono. the one i kept is magical. i wept onceI sat down and really listened to it with a bit of music i knew really well. Beautiful. Wonderous. Glad i got the Bryston BP-26 and 1.5 phono. Well worth the price of entry.

[Diamond Dog]

Hi Ben : I currently run a Manley Jumbo Shrimp tube pre-amp ahead of a pair of  7BSST2's in a deliberately simple system. I absolutely love the way this system sounds. If I were to enter the market for a new pre-amp though, I would certainly have Bryston on my audition list as I have heard them and they sound very good.
Good hunting!

D.

[Viajero5000]

Hi Elizabeth, am I correct in understanding that you're using the VAC between the DAC and the BP26?

VAC Standard tube preamp (expensive tube buffer for digital otput from my DAC to the Bryston The VAc is below the Sp-15 in clarity and PRAT. It is perfect for the use i have it for at this time. Used and a decent deal. The VAc would be better with a better power cord, actually took the best cord off because it was too good for my use as a grunge hiding device for digital. Still it lacks clarity and a solid focus)

[Elizabeth]

Correct: i have the VAC Standard preamp in my system between the Adcom DA700 DAC, to the Bryston BP-26. It is there ONLY as a 'tube buffer' A glorified and expensive one, but that is why it is there, to ameliorate the digital high frequency garbage. And yes it is VAC preamp out to input in to the Bryston BP-26. (I also have the Sony SCD777ES into the VAC)
Then the Audio Research SP-15 preamp is in the system just as a second phono section. (The ARC is solid state except for the phono section, which uses three tubes)
Some on another site have criticized my arrangement of three full preamps... but i could care less. It does what i want, and i keep the VAC and ARC in good condition (instead of sitting in a closet)
The Digital is pretty good sounding with this arrangement, enough so that it will stay this way for a long time.

[Ben77059]

Elizabeth,

My first attempt at “high end” audio gear was right after I got out of college.  I bought Bose 901’s and drove them with a receiver (it may have been a Technic’s, can’t really remember).  I upgrade to a Phase Linear amp/pre and then to NAD.  I finally sold the Bose and bought Klipsch.  My NAD amp died and I bought a $200 Onkyo amp.  This was actually decent and I was okay with it until a few years ago when I decided I wanted a really good system.

Boy, I did not know the can of worms I had opened.  I found a NHT Power2 amp at a close-out price and it was a big improvement.  I sold the Klipsh’s after I got a deal on a pair of Paradigm Studio 20’s.  Another improvement.  Then I found the Vandersteen 2ce Sig’s locally and bought them.  Another improvement.  Then I wondered if a better amp would make a difference and I found the 4B-SST2 on A’gon and bought it.  Hugh difference.

I think it was right after I bought the NHT I upgraded from the NAD pre to the Arcam C30.  I think I was still using the Paradigm’s and I don’t remember if I really noticed a big difference between the Arcam and the NAD.  Probably, since I kept the Arcam.

So, for some reason I got the urge to upgrade the Arcam.  After reading the input from Phil and James, I decided to go with the SP 1.7 – same pre as the BP 25 but cheaper used.  As luck would have it, I found an SP 2.  It was more than the 1.7  but I figure newer is better.  (Now I see where as SP 3 is coming out. )   I’m hoping it will be a big improvement on the Arcam.

Now I guess it’s time to start looking for an upgrade on the Vandy’s.  The worms just keep crawling out of the can.

[Levi]

Correct: i have the VAC Standard preamp in my system between the Adcom DA700 DAC, to the Bryston BP-26. It is there ONLY as a 'tube buffer' A glorified and expensive one, but that is why it is there, to ameliorate the digital high frequency garbage. And yes it is VAC preamp out to input in to the Bryston BP-26. (I also have the Sony SCD777ES into the VAC)
Then the Audio Research SP-15 preamp is in the system just as a second phono section. (The ARC is solid state except for the phono section, which uses three tubes)
Some on another site have criticized my arrangement of three full preamps... but i could care less. It does what i want, and i keep the VAC and ARC in good condition (instead of sitting in a closet)
The Digital is pretty good sounding with this arrangement, enough so that it will stay this way for a long time.

That is an interesting setup.  I may have to try that with my SP1.7 which has a BP25 inside. 

[Viajero5000]

A bit like selling one's soul to the devil!  Giving up resolution and clarity in exchange for music that's easy to listen to for extended hours.  I often find myself in this predicament - the very clear and resolute, yet slightly lean and metallic presentation of CDs via s/s, or the easier on the ears, textured, but slightly suffocated and hazy presentation via tubes... 

I recently tried inserting a tube pre-amp between the CDP and BP26 just for fun... but lost too much resolution and detail.  I prefer running the CD to BP26 directly to the amp, or alternatively using a tube pre-amp directly into the amp for extended listening sessions where full s/s becomes too fatiguing.  Perhaps Bryston can fit a small tube inside the BP26 to give us the best of both worlds!     

Correct: i have the VAC Standard preamp in my system between the Adcom DA700 DAC, to the Bryston BP-26. It is there ONLY as a 'tube buffer' A glorified and expensive one, but that is why it is there, to ameliorate the digital high frequency garbage. And yes it is VAC preamp out to input in to the Bryston BP-26. (I also have the Sony SCD777ES into the VAC)
Then the Audio Research SP-15 preamp is in the system just as a second phono section. (The ARC is solid state except for the phono section, which uses three tubes)
Some on another site have criticized my arrangement of three full preamps... but i could care less. It does what i want, and i keep the VAC and ARC in good condition (instead of sitting in a closet)
The Digital is pretty good sounding with this arrangement, enough so that it will stay this way for a long time.

[Levi]

Ok.  Thanks for saving time. 

A bit like selling one's soul to the devil!  Giving up resolution and clarity in exchange for music that's easy to listen to for extended hours.  I often find myself in this predicament - the very clear and resolute, yet slightly lean and metallic presentation of CDs via s/s, or the easier on the ears, textured, but slightly suffocated and hazy presentation via tubes... 

I recently tried inserting a tube pre-amp between the CDP and BP26 just for fun... but lost too much resolution and detail.  I prefer running the CD to BP26 directly to the amp, or alternatively using a tube pre-amp directly into the amp for extended listening sessions where full s/s becomes too fatiguing.  Perhaps Bryston can fit a small tube inside the BP26 to give us the best of both worlds!     

[Elizabeth]

I had tried a small 'tube buffer' ($150. new) in between the DAC and Bryston BP-26, but it really was not good enough. Then i thought about a tube preamp (maybe a Conrad Johnson) but bumped into the VAC Standard on the goN' at a very reasonable price. ($1,500. for a originally $4,000. preamp that had, in addition, been later factory upgraded with better caps etc so added$$.) The VAC is pretty good, too good for the lowly task I have given it, but it does what i want. As I mentioned, putting a better cord on it made it TOO GOOD for the task! So it is right at the very edge of masking HF grunge vs clarity and PRAT. Well worth the cost IMO to fix the digital. I could have spent a LOT ($5,000 plus) more for a better digital front end and still end up in the same place.

[Levi]

I had tried a small 'tube buffer' ($150. new) in between the DAC and Bryston BP-26, but it really was not good enough. Then i thought about a tube preamp (maybe a Conrad Johnson) but bumped into the VAC Standard on the goN' at a very reasonable price. ($1,500. for a originally $4,000. preamp that had, in addition, been later factory upgraded with better caps etc so added$$.) The VAC is pretty good, too good for the lowly task I have given it, but it does what i want. As I mentioned, putting a better cord on it made it TOO GOOD for the task! So it is right at the very edge of masking HF grunge vs clarity and PRAT. Well worth the cost IMO to fix the digital. I could have spent a LOT ($5,000 plus) more for a better digital front end and still end up in the same place.

It looks like you could use an analog sounding CD Player. 

[werd]

A bit like selling one's soul to the devil!  Giving up resolution and clarity in exchange for music that's easy to listen to for extended hours.  I often find myself in this predicament - the very clear and resolute, yet slightly lean and metallic presentation of CDs via s/s, or the easier on the ears, textured, but slightly suffocated and hazy presentation via tubes... 

I recently tried inserting a tube pre-amp between the CDP and BP26 just for fun... but lost too much resolution and detail.  I prefer running the CD to BP26 directly to the amp, or alternatively using a tube pre-amp directly into the amp for extended listening sessions where full s/s becomes too fatiguing.  Perhaps Bryston can fit a small tube inside the BP26 to give us the best of both worlds! 

Hi Viajero

Most of the bad wrap i hear about ss pre amps are more about the front end than anything other thing. It just so happens that you put in a tube pre amp and it band aids. Thats been my personal experience. The bp26 is not metallic or lean. The problem i have found is always in the area around the source. IE cabling, platforms and isolation around the source is where much of the activity around our hobby is centered. The bcd and bda are excellent front end pieces on their own. They become stellar when platformed and cabled properly imo.

I don't know what you got but i know the complaints and i have been down that road. Politely... "there is no free lunch in digital playback"..... hehe

[Napalm]

Hi Viajero

Most of the bad wrap i hear about ss pre amps are more about the front end than anything other thing. It just so happens that you put in a tube pre amp and it band aids. Thats been my personal experience. The bp26 is not metallic or lean. The problem i have found is always in the area around the source. IE cabling, platforms and isolation around the source is where much of the activity around our hobby is centered. The bcd and bda are excellent front end pieces on their own. They become stellar when platformed and cabled properly imo.

I don't know what you got but i know the complaints and i have been down that road. Politely... "there is no free lunch in digital playback"..... hehe

Werd. Vocals recorded via condenser microphones (which are very popular for this purpose) tend to get a "metallic" character that is further accentuated when running them via compressors/de-essers. Unless the engineer is very skilled, this character will be (sometimes very strongly) present in the final recording. And if that's how it sounds when played back at home, then your equipment is doing a very good job. I don't think you should alter it to compensate for the lack of skills of the recording guy.

Before investing more $$$$ in cables why don't you do a simple experiment. Go buy a condenser and a dynamic mic and record yourself with both then compare.

Of course if the dynamic mic recording sounds metallic too then you have a real problem.

Nap.