A message from Wendell at Magnepan

gtb75 · « **on:** 19 Jan 2011, 03:25 pm »

**** DISCLAIMER: First, let me say I am not Wendell Diller. I'm a current 3.6 owner with a pair of 3.7's on order. He and I have been talking over the last few weeks, not just about the 3.7's, but the changes in Magnepan's newer products in general. I mentioned some of the misinformation that was floating around the various forums, so he asked me if I would post message from him since I'm already a member of several - so here it is. If you have questions, please don't hesitate to give him a call. ****

Dear Audiophiles,

Graeme offered to post this information in a number of chat rooms. I have been working weekends and long hours and I appreciate his help. BTW-- If it comes up again, like a previous time when I was on a chat room, feel free to call me at Magnepan and I will confirm that this is my letter.

The new 3.7 has raised a lot of questions and speculation. In this venue, I am free to say more than is appropriate for a wider audience on our website. The 3.7 bass and midrange are quasi ribbon---like the 1.7. The tweeter is a true ribbon. However, I am aware that these definitions have been a subject of debate. This letter will get too long if I try to explain our definition of "quasi ribbon". The short version is-- ANY deviation from a foil (usually aluminum) suspended in magnetic gap is "quasi". And there have been a lot of creative variations of the true ribbon.

A significant amount of discussion in chat rooms is how additional performance can be attained from Maggies through tweaks or associated equipment. I wear several "hats" at Magnepan and I am also involved on the technical side. I don't recall a tweak that we haven't tried in some fashion. We don't expend any energy or time to confirm or deny the effectiveness of any idea. You all are having fun. Why would we want to mess with that?

When it comes to improving upon a 1.6 or 3.6, there isn't much fun or hobby to it. Our jobs and Magnepan were on the line. Would you gamble with your job that your favorite tweak will be heard and appreciated by thousands of consumers? To be sure what we THINK is an improvement, we undertook blind testing with a panel that included Golden Ears and non-audiophiles. In all cases, the 1.7 and 3.7 were chosen over their predecessors.

I have some new terminology for you audiophiles. My wife, Galina, was one of the people on the listening panel. She is a Russian immigrant (55 yrs. old) and was earning $300 per month in Russia (with 2 children). She didn't even have a kitchen radio, although she did hear live music. The president, Mark Winey, wanted the assurance that "normal" people could hear the improvement of the new models. Galina said-- "The speaker on the right is 3 roses. The speaker on the left is a bouquet of 9 roses." She is an organic chemist. She said the speaker on the right is "diluted" and the speaker on the left has "more sugar".

Three of the Golden Ears from Audio Research were also on the blind listening panel. They used terminology that you would recognize.

As a manufacturer, we have the option of trying tweaks that far exceed what we read on the internet. But, will Galina hear the difference in a blind test?

We get a lot of criticism (and positive input) of what we should be doing (or not doing). I consider all to this input, but, from my perspective, I cannot fault Magnepan. Whatever subject you wish to discuss, I can offer a perspective that is not available to consumers. For example, "Your website needs more attention." Yes, I know that. But, it is not as simple as it seems to you.

We, as a nation, and Magnepan in particular, are in an economic struggle for survival. America is slowly waking up to the fact that we must change our ways. Maybe you saw our ad in The Absolute Sound magazine, "Frugal is Cool". We all have modest incomes (including Mark Winey). We do more with less!!! That means we can compete with China--despite their currency manipulation.

Magnepan has been around for 41 years and with the Wineys in charge, it will outlive me.

martyo · « **Reply #1 on:** 19 Jan 2011, 03:54 pm »

I'm not a Maggie owner but have always liked them, all the way back to the '70's. A lot of bang for the buck. Thanks for the perspective Wendell.

schw06 · « **Reply #2 on:** 19 Jan 2011, 04:51 pm »

There is hardly a day that I don't think about how much I have enjoyed owning Magnepan speakers in the past and have contemplated buying the 3.7's. Although I appreciate Wendell's perspective and believe in buying American products, I have some concerns about the 3.7 based on his comments. From the fact that the country and economy is hurting, my assumption is that the changes to the 3.6 were based off hitting a particular price point rather than sonic improvement without regard to cost. This is not meant as a criticism, just an observation. I hope the 3.7 is a quantum leap forward for the similar cost but I would not buy the 3.7 without hearing it based on my impressions of the 3.6. Fortunately, Magnepan speakers do offer off the charts value in their lineup and I will still consider owning them again. I definitely wish Magnepan success because a world without that company would be a loss for all audiophiles.

2bigears · « **Reply #3 on:** 19 Jan 2011, 05:27 pm »

not sure the .7 will be a leap of QUANTUM proportion as the 3.6 kicks ass dollar for dollar.think they were after an improved older design.would love to hear this myself as a 3.6 owner....

SteveFord · « **Reply #4 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 12:31 am »

Thank you for posting that - it's nice to see something on the record from someone who knows the product better than just about anyone.
I know from past conversations that Wendell is stretched pretty thin with his job responsibilities as he wears many hats there and they keep him hopping. I think that's part of what he means by making more with less.
That plus making a really good product that we can actually afford.
I haven't heard the 3.7s yet but the last thing I read was Best of Show at CES so I'm pretty sure they're rather impressive. Maybe even a bouquet of 9 roses worth.

TONEPUB · « **Reply #5 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 12:44 am »

The 3.7 is definitely an improvement from the 3.6, however it is not a QUANTUM leap. Because the drivers are more of similar materials now, the biggest improvement (as it was in the 1.6 to 1.7 upgrade) is in the coherence of the presentation.

However, I have to say that the diff in my 1.6's with Skiing Ninja crossovers was a far bigger improvement to the sound than a set of 1.7's could offer. While Wendell likes to talk about their various changes, the word frugal is the tipoff. The crossover parts in the Magnepan speakers have never been anything to write home about. Of course if they made changes of the magnitude that the Ninja made on my speakers, the 1.6's or 1.7's would cost double what they do now. Much like the "Shot Gunn" mod to the frames.

The basic Magnepan technology is fantastic and their speakers represent tremendous value for the money. But there's a lot more performance to be had in those speakers! I've heard a friend's 20.1's with the crossovers rebuilt with premium parts and they didn't even sound like the same speakers....

So, I highly suggest an audition. The new models are definitely better.

jtwrace · « **Reply #6 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 12:57 am »

Jeff

What cap brand does skiing ninja use in his mods?

josh358 · « **Reply #7 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 02:17 am »

Quote from: schw06 on 19 Jan 2011, 04:51 pm

There is hardly a day that I don't think about how much I have enjoyed owning Magnepan speakers in the past and have contemplated buying the 3.7's. Although I appreciate Wendell's perspective and believe in buying American products, I have some concerns about the 3.7 based on his comments. From the fact that the country and economy is hurting, my assumption is that the changes to the 3.6 were based off hitting a particular price point rather than sonic improvement without regard to cost. This is not meant as a criticism, just an observation. I hope the 3.7 is a quantum leap forward for the similar cost but I would not buy the 3.7 without hearing it based on my impressions of the 3.6. Fortunately, Magnepan speakers do offer off the charts value in their lineup and I will still consider owning them again. I definitely wish Magnepan success because a world without that company would be a loss for all audiophiles.

I think all Magnepans, almost all speakers for that matter, are built to a certain price point. After all, if the 3.7's were improved without regard for price, you'd end up with 20.1's (or 20.2's, as the case may be), and what good would that do those of us who can't afford or don't want to spring for 20.1's?

I'm just grateful that there's a high end manufacturer that still cares about bang for the buck, rather than audio snob appeal. I mean, there are cables that sell for more than a pair of 20.1's!

Somewhere along the line, high end audio went nuts, and Magnepan, somehow, despite being one of its founding firms, didn't go nuts with it.

josh358 · « **Reply #8 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 02:19 am »

Tonepub,

If the 3.7's followed the examplel of the 1.7, they did put better caps in the crossovers.

Phil A · « **Reply #9 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 02:54 am »

Wendell is apparently involved in other projects related to sound - http://www.dillerdesign.com/quietgun/

Always liked Maggies. Never owned a pair though as either I didn't have the right room or started in a different direction. I might do things differently if I had to do it all over (so would be all). I have not heard the 1.7 or 3.7 but am looking forward at some point to visit the local dealer.

TONEPUB · « **Reply #10 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 04:16 am »

Quote from: josh358 on 20 Jan 2011, 02:19 am

Tonepub,

If the 3.7's followed the examplel of the 1.7, they did put better caps in the crossovers.

Better, but not premium stuff. No room and not in the budget. Still a step up from the 3.6 and definitely an excellent value.

gtb75 · « **Reply #11 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 08:07 pm »

Quote from: TONEPUB on 20 Jan 2011, 04:16 am

Better, but not premium stuff. No room and not in the budget. Still a step up from the 3.6 and definitely an excellent value.

Interesting to hear about the crossover components... Wendell and I never got that detailed in our discussions about the 3.7's, so that's definitely useful information

TONEPUB · « **Reply #12 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 08:11 pm »

Wendell is very anti-premium parts, so he'll have a different take. Personally, I was blown away at how much more sound was in my 1.6's when we swapped the parts.

trout2 · « **Reply #13 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 08:22 pm »

Because they build to price points only - they won't and shouldn't speak about how to improve their products. They are making it with a business model that keeps them going and keeps many employed. Adding new crossovers to my 3.6R's (built by Parts ConneXtion in Toronto) and adding Mye Stands takes these speakers into a totally different league. Well worth the $2000 total for these two improvements... I can't wait to hear the 3.7's but I'm betting that it's a slight improvement, not a huge one. Also didn't care for the tone of his letter. He was talking down to the masses if you get my drift.

schw06 · « **Reply #14 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 08:29 pm »

Quote from: josh358 on 20 Jan 2011, 02:17 am

I think all Magnepans, almost all speakers for that matter, are built to a certain price point. After all, if the 3.7's were improved without regard for price, you'd end up with 20.1's (or 20.2's, as the case may be), and what good would that do those of us who can't afford or don't want to spring for 20.1's?

I'm just grateful that there's a high end manufacturer that still cares about bang for the buck, rather than audio snob appeal. I mean, there are cables that sell for more than a pair of 20.1's!

Somewhere along the line, high end audio went nuts, and Magnepan, somehow, despite being one of its founding firms, didn't go nuts with it.

Magnepan has always provided great value in their products and I truly love them. However, there are a million tweaks to their speakers for good reason...they are providing only a fraction of what can be extracted from the speaker. I wish they offered a turnkey solution for those of us that really don't want to mess with the crossovers and have to build new stands for them. Price point is also not the only thing Magnepan should consider. The 20.1 is almost as large as a sail and I would venture to guess that a great number of audiophiles with plenty of money would not be able to accommodate the 20.1's due to their size. However, a maximally tweaked 3.6 or 1.6 from the factory that extracts everything from the speaker would most certainly be attractive to a large number of audiophiles.

ajzepp · « **Reply #15 on:** 20 Jan 2011, 11:39 pm »

Quote from: trout2 on 20 Jan 2011, 08:22 pm

Because they build to price points only - they won't and shouldn't speak about how to improve their products. They are making it with a business model that keeps them going and keeps many employed. Adding new crossovers to my 3.6R's (built by Parts ConneXtion in Toronto) and adding Mye Stands takes these speakers into a totally different league. Well worth the $2000 total for these two improvements... I can't wait to hear the 3.7's but I'm betting that it's a slight improvement, not a huge one. Also didn't care for the tone of his letter. He was talking down to the masses if you get my drift.

With regard to your last comment, I will say that I'm a medical person - not an electrician or speaker guru. I have probably asked some pretty routine questions during one of the many conversations I've had with Wendell, and I have yet to ever feel as if the guy was talking down to me or had any veiled intent to get me off the phone. The guy is very busy, but he's always taken the time to speak with me when I've called, and I know many others who have had the same experience. I don't know Wendell on a personal level, but I don't think for a minute that his intent was to talk down to anyone.

jk@home · « **Reply #16 on:** 21 Jan 2011, 12:28 am »

Back in 95', when I decided to order my MMGs, I had some question requarding the purchase.

Called on a Sunday, knowing no one would be there, just wanted to get a message in for a return call.

Wendell picked up the phone and we had a nice long conversation. Good guy.

bummrush · « **Reply #17 on:** 21 Jan 2011, 02:00 am »

I can't believe those MMGs have been around that long I think I had mine for a few years after 2002 or so

2bigears · « **Reply #18 on:** 21 Jan 2011, 02:11 am »

hey guys,does anyone make cross-overs for the 3.6's in a bolt-on style or do you send in the old one and they mod them ????? i would love to get better x-over parts to hear the dif !!!!! thks Pat in 2 feet snow pile ......Canada of course.....

ajzepp · « **Reply #19 on:** 21 Jan 2011, 04:26 am »

When I asked a similar question a couple of years ago, I ended up being told about Marchand active crossovers and the benefits of bi-amping the 3.6s. I current have the Marchand crossover that was suggested to me in a bi-amp configuration and it sounds fantastic. I have had very little problem with dynamics since I went in this direction, and it's certainly a step up from the passive stock crossovers that came with the Maggies. They still sounded good out of the box, but I much prefer the way I have it now.