Tube Integrated?

kingdeezie · « **on:** 17 Jan 2011, 02:06 pm »

So, despite my best efforts to actually sit down and enjoy my system for an extended period of time, I once again find myself dissatisfied; a common trend for me.

Having sold my analog rig because of time constraints; I'm left with only digital as my source, and my current configuration is good; but is ripe with a sterility that I can't relax or enjoy the music because of.

I also use the system for Home Theater, and honestly, with the kids and the wife, and just wanting to enjoy my system, I find myself growing tiresome with the complexity of the system; which if I truly enjoyed wouldn't be an issue.

My system goes like this.

Speakers: GR Research/Response Audio LS6s
Preamp: Purity One Preamp
Amp: Pass Labs 250.5
Digital: Ps Audio Perfect Wave DAC/Bridge
Power Conditioner: Synergistic Research Powercell 10SE
Receiver for HT: Pioneer Elite

So, I am trying to simplify my life a little bit, but honestly what is more important to me is sound quality for both music and HT.

My Preamp doesn't have HT bypass, so when I want to watch a movie, I have to turn on the preamp and the volume appropriately, turn on the amp, turn on the receiver, turn on the projector, and then turn on the source.

Does anyone think a tube integrated with a "preamp" or "direct" input would be a suitable idea here? I am looking for a sound that is open, dynamic, and transparent, but with more liquidity then I am getting now. My current system is sounding "hard."

The hardest part of the equation is how much do I need to spend here to obtain happiness without drastically stepping backwards.

The Purity One preamp and Pass Labs amplifier total a large sum; and while I not one to always equate money with quality; I do feel there are certain qualities you get as you go up in price; especially with tube gear.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated; I question if it is possible within reason to make any movement here; but I am not completely thrilled with my setup at the moment, when I feel like I should be.

Thanks for reading, and as always your opinions are always greatly appreciated.

eclein · « **Reply #1 on:** 17 Jan 2011, 02:21 pm »

How do you playback blu-rays?? Just off the top of my head here, I use a PS3 and they are capable of sending two audio feeds out at the same time. I use HDMI to AV receiver and toslink to my DAC...so both systems are on and in play when viewing movies, plus when watching concert vids I can utilize my 2.1 rig.
You probably don't have a PS3 and I just typed alot of none help...LOL

kingdeezie · « **Reply #2 on:** 17 Jan 2011, 02:32 pm »

I do have a PS3 that I currently use for blurays.

I think my issue here is trying to find something that makes the 2-channel enjoyment better, while maintaing a good HT presentation.

I just wanted to know what people thought of ditching the Pass and Purity stuff for what will likely be a smaller and less expensive tube integrated.

eclein · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 Jan 2011, 02:37 pm »

OK....its just an option you might explore.

rollo · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 Jan 2011, 02:59 pm »

Quote from: kingdeezie on 17 Jan 2011, 02:32 pm

I do have a PS3 that I currently use for blurays.

I think my issue here is trying to find something that makes the 2-channel enjoyment better, while maintaing a good HT presentation.

I just wanted to know what people thought of ditching the Pass and Purity stuff for what will likely be a smaller and less expensive tube integrated.

Why not look into adding a HT bypass to the Purity Preamp. you own some nice sounding gear.

charles

kingdeezie · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 Jan 2011, 03:12 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 17 Jan 2011, 02:59 pm

Why not look into adding a HT bypass to the Purity Preamp. you own some nice sounding gear.

charles

Because for some reason, its not producing a "nice" sound. I have been on an equipment merry go round for a long time now, and am loosing interest in the hobby in general; I love music, I just want to enjoy it.

I don't know if its the source, the amplifier, the speakers, or what, but something needs to change. I want to get off the merry go round, and enjoy the carnival.

Something simple and effective is very tempting to consider.

Could I be barking up the wrong tree...maybe; who knows in this hobby.

shadowlight · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 Jan 2011, 03:15 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 17 Jan 2011, 02:59 pm

Why not look into adding a HT bypass to the Purity Preamp. you own some nice sounding gear.

charles

+1, I have a Response Bella L/P with HT bypass switch, LS6 and Digital Amp Company Cherry Jr. When I am done listening to music I make sure that I flip the switch on the Bella to HT mode so if the kids want to watch all they have to do is turn on the receiver and amp and they are set. I am pretty sure Bill can add HT switch if you want.
Edit: Ignore. You responded to rollo's message while I was typing the response.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 Jan 2011, 03:25 pm »

Quote from: kingdeezie on 17 Jan 2011, 02:06 pm

...my current configuration is good; but is ripe with a sterility that I can't relax or enjoy the music because of.

Is there anything else beside sterility you can identify as being problematic? That is, is there a lack of warmth, do you find extended listening sessions to be fatiguing, etc?

davidrs · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 Jan 2011, 03:33 pm »

Quote from: kingdeezie on 17 Jan 2011, 02:32 pm

I think my issue here is trying to find something that makes the 2-channel enjoyment better, while maintaing a good HT presentation.

I just wanted to know what people thought of ditching the Pass and Purity stuff for what will likely be a smaller and less expensive tube integrated.

Kingdeezie:

You have very good gear, but no harm in moving to an integrated.

Many tubed integrated amp options out there, that do offer the bypass function and pre outs you are looking for, including, addressing your needs for a more enjoyable and musical 2 channel presentation.

I'm currently using an Ayon Audio Spirit II which hits the mark for me; feel free to get a better feel for my system under the Systems section.

I've been very happy moving away from separates and do not feel I have given up much, if anything at all; and it is the third tubed integrated amp I've had in my system.

The savings can be pocketed or put towards cabling with better synergy and perfomance and/or components, based on what you are looking for from your system.

There are other integrateds to point you towards, and if this is what you are looking for, members on AC can chime in with their favorites.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #9 on:** 17 Jan 2011, 04:10 pm »

The Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum just got very favorable review is TAS. I think they even declared it their budget amp of the year? I heard it in my system and liked it very much. I find their stuff to be a good mix of tube warmth with solid state balls. If you're looking for a super lush tubey sound then Rogue probably isn't the company to go with. But since you've had an SS amp you might want to keep on the 'faster' side of tubes and Rogue does that very well.

They also make a larger, more powerful int. called the Tempest III. Check out their website.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #10 on:** 17 Jan 2011, 04:13 pm »

...and I think they all can be made with HT bypass and upgraded to your heart's content.

davidrs · « **Reply #11 on:** 17 Jan 2011, 04:14 pm »

Quote from: Ericus Rex on 17 Jan 2011, 04:10 pm

The Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum.

+1 on Ericus Rex's recommendation. The Magnum upgrade through the line is well worth it.

kingdeezie · « **Reply #12 on:** 17 Jan 2011, 04:43 pm »

Quote from: davidrs on 17 Jan 2011, 03:33 pm

Kingdeezie:

You have very good gear, but no harm in moving to an integrated.

Many tubed integrated amp options out there, that do offer the bypass function and pre outs you are looking for, including, addressing your needs for a more enjoyable and musical 2 channel presentation.

I'm currently using an Ayon Audio Spirit II which hits the mark for me; feel free to get a better feel for my system under the Systems section.

I've been very happy moving away from separates and do not feel I have given up much, if anything at all; and it is the third tubed integrated amp I've had in my system.

The savings can be pocketed or put towards cabling with better synergy and perfomance and/or components, based on what you are looking for from your system.

There are other integrateds to point you towards, and if this is what you are looking for, members on AC can chime in with their favorites.

Interestingly, I have been looking at the Ayon Audio Spirit or Triton.

The spirit seems to be very well priced, and, if it fit the bill, could leave me with a few thousand in hand afterwards.

I noted your speakers in your system, how efficient are they? My LS6s are about 90B/w/m, and I am listening about 2.5 meters away.

Room is small 18x13x8. Do you think the 60 watts of the Spirit would be sufficient in your experience?

kingdeezie · « **Reply #13 on:** 17 Jan 2011, 04:44 pm »

Quote from: Ericus Rex on 17 Jan 2011, 04:10 pm

The Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum just got very favorable review is TAS. I think they even declared it their budget amp of the year? I heard it in my system and liked it very much. I find their stuff to be a good mix of tube warmth with solid state balls. If you're looking for a super lush tubey sound then Rogue probably isn't the company to go with. But since you've had an SS amp you might want to keep on the 'faster' side of tubes and Rogue does that very well.

They also make a larger, more powerful int. called the Tempest III. Check out their website.

I have noted the Tempest III. I was at one point looking at Rogue monoblocks. Do you use the Cronus?

kingdeezie · « **Reply #14 on:** 17 Jan 2011, 04:54 pm »

Quote from: Wind Chaser on 17 Jan 2011, 03:25 pm

Is there anything else beside sterility you can identify as being problematic? That is, is there a lack of warmth, do you find extended listening sessions to be fatiguing, etc?

There is a lack of warmth. A brittleness to the highs; like hashy with cymbals. Female vocals are thin. There is no bloom in anything; it sounds mechanical.

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #15 on:** 17 Jan 2011, 05:04 pm »

Quote from: kingdeezie on 17 Jan 2011, 02:06 pm

.... despite my best efforts to actually sit down and enjoy my system for an extended period of time, I once again find myself dissatisfied

..... ripe with a sterility that I can't relax or enjoy the music

.... I find myself growing tiresome with the complexity of the system

.... I am trying to simplify my life a little bit

.... I also use the system for Home Theater

If you can't sit down and enjoy the system at all, then why bother to use a computer as a music source? (I'm assuming that's what you're doing since you didn't say what your source is, other than the bridge.) Computers can be more of a distraction than an asset for some of us. I find that it's better to sit down and enjoy one CD than to spend any time screwing around with a computer.

I've never met anyone personally that enjoyed listening to two channel music on their home theater system. Can you separate the two? Can set up a music system in the same rack/space?

"Simple" for me is a cd player, a small tube integrated, and a pair of two way speakers. I would rather love everything that's right about that combo than be turned off by the complexity of your current situation. Leave the HT for the family and set up a music system for dad.

kingdeezie · « **Reply #16 on:** 17 Jan 2011, 05:16 pm »

A good suggestion, but impossible.

My HT equipment is not on when I am listening to music. They just basically share the amplifier; that is all.

The bridge streams music via a NAS off a computer. The only thing that I interface with is my iphone to change albums or songs.

If I could iron out some of the sterileness and hardness of the system, I'd be happier. Switching to a tube integrated could theoretically make this happen, as well as simplify things.

Quality of the sound is my most important concern.

davidrs · « **Reply #17 on:** 17 Jan 2011, 05:29 pm »

Quote from: kingdeezie on 17 Jan 2011, 04:43 pm

Interestingly, I have been looking at the Ayon Audio Spirit or Triton.

The spirit seems to be very well priced, and, if it fit the bill, could leave me with a few thousand in hand afterwards.

I noted your speakers in your system, how efficient are they? My LS6s are about 90B/w/m, and I am listening about 2.5 meters away.

Room is small 18x13x8. Do you think the 60 watts of the Spirit would be sufficient in your experience?

Kingdeezie: to answer your questions :---

The Vaughn Pinots are 94dB 8ohm.

The Ayon has also driven these speakers with ease:

- Zu Soul Superflys (much more efficient)
- Gemme Tanto V2 (around 91dB)
- Chario Academy Sonnets (around 89dB)

The room is larger than yours 13X26X8.5 feet.

I am listening at 8 or 12 feet from the speakers, depending on my listening position.

I only use a pc audio feed, much like what you are doing.

Feel feel to pm me, or email me (listed in my profile) if you have more specific questions about Ayon.

- David.

srb · « **Reply #18 on:** 17 Jan 2011, 05:42 pm »

I know that the Synergistic Research PowerCell 10SE was the TAS 2009 Power Conditioner Of The Year and is very expensive, but it wouldn't be the first time I have heard certain components plugged into a conditioner result in kind of a "sterility" as you describe.

Have you auditioned your system without the conditioner or with a component at a time not plugged into it?

As you are using the PW DAC and Bridge as your source, I assume that you have experimented with all of the possible DAC filter settings?

Aside from possible harsh room acoustics, it is odd that you are getting unsatisfying sound from such high end components.

Steve

SET Man · « **Reply #19 on:** 17 Jan 2011, 05:53 pm »

Hey!

If you ask me. I have to say that the first mistake is that you got rid of you analog. I do understand that with analog vinyl is take more time but than that is about quality vs quantity. Anyway, hope that you still kept all you vinyls.

Back the the system. Looking at your system list. I do have one recommendation and that is get rid of the PS Audio DAC. I've heard PS Audio DAC before in one of the member of now gone NAYR Circle here and I have to say that it didn't sound right. It dose sound very precise and detailed but overall it sound very mechanical. And of course that member no longer using the PS Audio DAC now.

With DAC, since you coming from analog before I would recommend you try NOS (non oversampling) DAC first. Well, as long as you don't play high-res files of course.

I don't know about your speaker. But having a good tube amp is not a bad thing. Some people like to tube and some like SS. So, if possible audition them in your system first before making decision.

Good luck.

Take care,
Buddy