[Mass. Wine Guy]

I have a pair of Silverline Minuet speakers that have a rated sensitivity of about 88 db, though some have told me it's really 85. My listening/living room is small and I recently upgraded to a solid state 150 W/channel amp.

Would different speakers with a higher sensitivity work better in this system, or doesn't it matter very much? At the very least, I'd be interested in speakers with a bass/mid driver larger than 3.25 inches so I'd get a more palpable feeling of the music.

These speakers can be bi-wired, which I'm curious to try. Might that change things?

Thanks very much.

[Wind Chaser]

These speakers can be bi-wired, which I'm curious to try. Might that change things?

It has in the imagination of some minds but truthfully; you have the right idea - new speakers.

[Mass. Wine Guy]

It has in the imagination of some minds but truthfully; you have the right idea - new speakers.

Anything in particular to look for (characteristics, not brands)?

Thank you.

[JLM]

Mass,

I think maybe Windy doesn't like your speakers.   

In a "small" room (say under 2,000 cu. ft.) 150 wpc + 85 dB/w/m speakers = 106 dB.  That should be pretty darn loud.  But small speakers can only push so much air and that's what bass is all about.  I for one believe that bass is foundational and basic to good (let alone audiophile) sound.

Try picking up some test tones (Stereophile sells them on CDs) and a sound pressure level (spl) meter (Radio Shack sells one for $40).  Then learn what 90 dB, 30 Hz, etc. sounds like. 

Does your amp have pre-amp or subwoofer outputs?  If so you could consider adding a subwoofer.  This would let you keep your speakers and give more flexibility in terms of speaker location, and adjusting bass output.  The alternative is new speakers as you already have plenty of power.

Speaker selection is highly personal.  But for full bass you normally need to look at 8 inch or bigger drivers.  Higher efficiency speakers typically sound more dynamic, but too high will reveal system noise and can render your volume control almost useless (as it could get extremely loud at very low settings).  In a small room you'll need to listen nearfield so keep that in mind as you shop (some speakers don't provide the coherent sound that nearfield dictates).  Note that with nearly any speaker capable of full bass you'll need to keep them away from the walls (to avoid boomy bass).

Good luck.

[eclein]

The speakers you have are plenty efficient for the power and room size. A subwooofer to fill the low end is a great idea. If you want to test the speaker waters, I have found incredible speakers on Craigslist for peanuts so check your local one each day and stuff will pop up especially now as folks spend tax refunds, etc..."There is Gold in them there hills"

[wywires]

Silverline makes very good speakers and Alan Yun is a great guy and very knowledgeable but the Minuet with the small 3.25" driver can only go down to 60Hz. Your amp is certainly sufficient for those speakers, but you can't violate the laws of physics. If you want punch in the lower registers, you need a bigger speaker with at least a 5" or 6" mid bass driver. There are many choices in speakers that would satisfy your desires.

[Rocket_Ronny]

I have had small, low eff. aprox. 85 db,  2 way speakers (Celestion SL2's) in a very large room (26 x 32) driven by a 70 watt Classe 70 amp, and I had it LOUD. I had a HUGE soundstage and I bet the sound I got would have beat a lot of systems 5 times it's price, when they are set up like some I see on the net. Not bragging, just stating a fact. 

Here is my old room. I miss it a lot. The room is more important than the gear folks.










And here is a rare Rocket_Ronny sighting.




The Celestion's tweeters are mounted on 4"x7" aprox. plastic mounting plates. I pushed the speaker so hard the plates were a flappen.

I could have just added a good sub to it and still be happy with the setup all these years later. Although the speaker is a little on the dark side.

You don't need a sub output on your amp to use a sub if the sub can accept speaker outputs. That is how I run my Sunfire sub, only I do not connect the ground, or -, for one of the speakers. So I connect the + and - of say the left speaker and only the + of the right.


Rocket_o why did I not just stay with my old gear_Ronny

[Mitsuman]

I've been struggling with a similiar situtation myself. I have high efficency speakers (96dB) fed by one of my Mitsu DA-A15DC amps that is rated at 150wpc. My speakers are much larger than yours, but I was still not getting the low frequency "oomph" that I know they are capable of producing. I did some major room treatments recently, by adding bass traps in the corners behind the speakers, and installed acoustic foam to the wall directly behind the speakers. I also modified the placement of some of my absorption/diffusion panels on the side walls to be asymetrical vs. symetrical. The difference has been huge to my ears. As others have said, you can't change the laws of physics, but you can make huge improvements with room treatments and changes to reflection/absorption points in your listening room. Just my $.02 

[Quiet Earth]

I think JLM summed it up pretty well but would like to add to that if I may.

Before you spend any money on the problem you might try to enhance the placement of your speakers or yourself if you haven't already. In other words, you can place your speakers closer to the wall behind them and adjust the toe in to recapture the stereo image to your liking. Try placing the speakers right up against the back wall if you can. This goes against the audiophile rules of speaker set up, blah blah blah, but you should get a more natural sense of pressure with the same amount of wattage which equates to louder perceived volume. I personally like this kind of sound presentation, even with many speakers that were designed to be placed out into the room.

Another alternative placement choice is you and your chair. If you need to keep the speakers where they are you should try to place yourself smack up against the wall behind you if you can. You will feel the room pressurizing better and also hear deeper bass because of where you are sitting.

This is all free stuff that you should try if you haven't already, and it's  completely reversible if you don't like it.

[Wind Chaser]

At the very least, I'd be interested in speakers with a bass/mid driver larger than 3.25 inches so I'd get a more palpable feeling of the music.

Think big!  I was originally looking for a pair of SL Minuets but ended up with something very similar by Totem.  Tiny mini monitors cannot give you the mojo you're looking for.  I now have a pair of Zu Druids, 101 decibels with 1 watt.  Combined with the meager output of a 300b, it very visceral and emotional overflowing with excellence.

[eclein]

One thing I found out by trial and error was that its possible to go just a little bit too big. I was using JBL 4312A's with 12" woofers in a 16 X 18 room and found that they really didn't open up until after my listening position. The low end was projected a bit further than space allowed for my seating and when I went to 8" and now 10" woofers the sound image arrived at my listening position just right. I use a sub also to reinforce the low end just a hair!!!
 Experiment!!! Stuff won't blow up, move it around, try different stuff and you'll be pleasantly surprised I think. You may have "THE" setup right now.

[Rocket_Ronny]

Hey Wine Guy:

Can you share with us your room and system set up?

One of the first speakers I owned were Angstrom T2s, back in 1980. They were very nice 2 way book shelf. I sold them to WindChaser because I found them too bright. Well, the room was bright. And believe it or not, I had tone controls on my Kenwood amp and did not use them since that was audio heresy. Stupid, stupid, stupid.      

If I had those once again, but had a better room than back then, and a good sub, I would have a great sound still today. Even with the Kenwood amp.

It is less about the gear, although that is important, and more about the room and system setup.


Rocket_Ronny

[nodiak]

MWG, Those look like nice monitors, probably image great, especially if pulled out a couple feet from walls. If you like their sound and just want low bass a sub would do that, and give you that palpable feeling. A sub will also clean up the monitors, if you cross out their bass, they actually will sound like new cleaner speakers. eclein's tip seems right for you. The issue with subs is it takes time to find where they sound best in the room because the room has places that cause increases or decreases in the bass response. Just takes time listening and moving it around. Not too hard to get something acceptable, then improve on it. Perfectionists rightly state that multiple subs are best, but many of us music lovers get along fine with one.
I bet you could find a decent small sub for $300 or less.
Also, if you do live in Mass. you might put up a thread seeking an audio pal nearby so you can hear their system and get some ideas.

Just wanted to add, like with anything, subs may not be your thing, can't know without trying. If not, some 6-8" two ways could work. If you can diy speakers SEAS paper cone midwoofers might be similar in sound to what you have. I'm prejudice and am using their 6.5" midwoofer, with 12" woofers.

Oh, and your amp has all the power you need for speakers probably as low as even 82db.

[davidrs]

In response to your question and issues, Members have already provided great feedback and suggestions.

Would add this to what has already been communicated: 

Encourage you to look, evaluate and relate to your system as a whole, this includes the room, the power coming into it, the music you play, as well as you.

Things that have not been mentioned, and which, in my experience, do have an influence on the two attributes you brought up, namely palpability and bass quality, are the quality of power, power conditioning, all cabling within your system, and isolation (components and speakers).

 

[Mass. Wine Guy]

Would add this to what has already been communicated: 

Encourage you to look, evaluate and relate to your system as a whole, this includes the room, the power coming into it, the music you play, as well as you.

Things that have not been mentioned, and which, in my experience, do have an influence on the two attributes you brought up, namely palpability and bass quality, are the quality of power, power conditioning, all cabling within your system, and isolation (components and speakers).

Isolation of components? Please tell me a bit about that. There is only so much distance I can put between them. And I'm kind of stuck with the room I have. The condition of electricity powering my system is most probably poor, so I can definitely address that.

I guess, as well, that regardless of how good a speaker may sound to a reviewer, it may simply not sound as good to my ears.

[davidrs]

Isolation of components? Please tell me a bit about that.

I guess, as well, that regardless of how good a speaker may sound to a reviewer, it may simply not sound as good to my ears.

I would start by reading how the manufacturers present their products, the reviews, and the back and forth by owners on the forums on individual approaches / comparisons to get a feel for the topic, approaches, and products. Do urge you to be careful, since there can be some "stretches" and hyperbole with the claims, etc. The good news, a lot of DIY options to get you started at a low cost.

As for your second point (from your quote above): it could well be that the speaker just doesn't do it for you (going to Wind Chaser's point). If that is the case, best to move on.

- David.

[werd]

I have a pair of Silverline Minuet speakers that have a rated sensitivity of about 88 db, though some have told me it's really 85. My listening/living room is small and I recently upgraded to a solid state 150 W/channel amp.

Would different speakers with a higher sensitivity work better in this system, or doesn't it matter very much? At the very least, I'd be interested in speakers with a bass/mid driver larger than 3.25 inches so I'd get a more palpable feeling of the music.

These speakers can be bi-wired, which I'm curious to try. Might that change things?

Thanks very much.

Hi

Your pre amp is important here too, whats your pre. Or is it an intergrated?

[Tyson]

Are you unhappy with the sound?  Or is this more of a hypothetical question?

[lonewolfny42]

MWG....

Some good advice here so far...please list your equipment and room info for a more complete answer.

As for the Minuet...it's a small speaker...your just not going to get much bass...but the mids and highs are nice.

Specifications
Design (Bass Reflex): 2 way
One 1" silk dome tweeter
One 3.25" pulp paper cone mid/woofer
Frequency Response: 60 - 28,000 Hz
Sensitivity: 88 dB
Nominal Impedance: 8 ohms
Crossover Frequency: 3500 Hz
Recommended Power: 10 -300 watts RMS
Dimension (H x W x D): 9" x 5.5" x 7.25"
Shipping Weight: 15 lbs./pair
Speaker Connections: Bi-wire

[Mass. Wine Guy]

My room is roughly 18 by 20 feet with a rug and a sofa, which is where I usually sit when listening. Hard wood floors. My speakers are about two to three feet away from the rear walls, although one is really backed by a drape-covered window.

Along with the Minuets I have an Arcam CD-72 CD player, Arte Forma I-150 integrated amp, and a Van Alstine OmegaStar DAC. No special cables, etc. except for a power cable for the amp made by Patrick Cullen and an inexpensive Monster digital coax interconnect between the CDP and DAC.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a bass fanatic. To me, palpable means a physical sensation of the music. I just thought a larger midrange/low end driver would help deliver this better.