Penta KT88SC or Shuguang Treasure KT88-Z

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #40 on:** 11 Jan 2011, 01:01 am »

Quote from: NOS Valves on 10 Jan 2011, 11:16 pm

I personally think these tubes are a complete scam for the money.

But have you heard them? Have you compared them to anything?

NOS Valves · « **Reply #41 on:** 11 Jan 2011, 02:06 am »

Heard, tested and inspected....

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #42 on:** 11 Jan 2011, 02:39 am »

So what did you compare them to?

NOS Valves · « **Reply #43 on:** 11 Jan 2011, 03:22 am »

I've heard extensivley just about every KT-88 known to man.. New to old and everything in between.

To me they sound just like what they are... A Valve Art KT-88 but then I closed my eyes and didn't let the pretty smoked glass influence my ears

They do look very nice though.

www.nosvalves.com

HT cOz · « **Reply #44 on:** 11 Jan 2011, 04:22 am »

Quote from: NOS Valves on 11 Jan 2011, 03:22 am

I've heard extensivley just about every KT-88 known to man.. New to old and everything in between.

To me they sound just like what they are... A Valve Art KT-88 but then I closed my eyes and didn't let the pretty smoked glass influence my ears They do look very nice though.

www.nosvalves.com

NOS Valves,

Thanks for sharing your experiences. It is always good to get some different data points from an expert. I think we all fall in love with our new gear and want to like it, otherwise we would not have bought it in the first place.

A little OT but any thoughts on the Winged C 6550C tubes? This is the tube I am currently running. Came dang close to getting those Pentas instead.

Thanks,
Robert

NOS Valves · « **Reply #45 on:** 11 Jan 2011, 05:17 am »

Sorry to say no I have not delved to far into the 6550 realm of new production tubes other then NOS tungsols and that reissiue that isn't even remotely as robust as the original. To tell you the truth I have no good reason to justify it!

I can say this about the Wing C tubes I love there El34 and always liked the KT-88 before I found out the shuguang's sounded so darn good and were such a bargain for the $.

Pez · « **Reply #46 on:** 12 Jan 2011, 03:40 pm »

Quote from: NOS Valves on 10 Jan 2011, 11:16 pm

2) Inside the Shuguang Treasure looks to me to be identical to the above. The only difference I could find was the black smoked glass that hides the inside. I personally think these tubes are a complete scam for the money. I think they are dead nuts the same as the KT-88-98 with a smoked glass that is much to do about nothing. Marketing scam if you ask me.

There's a problem with your various assumptions. Problem one, your eyeball work missed the fact that the treasures are made with different higher quality material than the standard KT88-98s, the "smoked" glass isn't smoked at all, its high polymer carbon aka a coating rather than simply some sort of glass tint as you imply.

For somebody who has "tried" almost any KT88 you clearly HAVE NOT tried the Treasures, but surprisingly that hasn't prevented you from formulating an opinion.

Any way I HAVE tried the Treasures and I HAVE tried not only every KT88 you've mentioned I have also rolled as many 6550s, it's so much better it makes my head spin.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #47 on:** 12 Jan 2011, 04:00 pm »

After reading a series of very favorable reports and comparisons between the Black Treasures and some of the so called best NOS tubes, I'm inclined to agree with Pez. Tube technology has moved a long way forward since the primitive days of early tube development.

NOS Valves · « **Reply #48 on:** 12 Jan 2011, 04:30 pm »

Quote from: Pez on 12 Jan 2011, 03:40 pm

There's a problem with your various assumptions. Problem one, your eyeball work missed the fact that the treasures are made with different higher quality material than the standard KT88-98s, the "smoked" glass isn't smoked at all, its high polymer carbon aka a coating rather than simply some sort of glass tint as you imply.

For somebody who has "tried" almost any KT88 you clearly HAVE NOT tried the Treasures, but surprisingly that hasn't prevented you from formulating an opinion.

Any way I HAVE tried the Treasures and I HAVE tried not only every KT88 you've mentioned I have also rolled as many 6550s, it's so much better it makes my head spin.

Hmmm so you're calling me a liar.....Boy what a class act. My opinion differs from yours so that makes me a liar.

Read this thread and you will see where a customers of mine sent me the tubes to try.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/132824.aspx

You want to be sucked in by marketing smoke and mirrors be my guest. But that does not give you an excuse for calling me a liar.

Pez · « **Reply #49 on:** 12 Jan 2011, 05:41 pm »

1st of all, don't be a drama queen. Never called anyone a liar. 2nd you said they "look" the same. Fine, they definitely do not sound the same. read through the thread you posted, since the Treasures are based off of the Shuguang tube I'm not at all surprised that they measure the same, just like the ruby will test the same as the 98, but where there IS a difference is both in materials used and HPCC. Meh... You've clearly made up your mind. If you don't like the Treasures, you don't like the Treasures. The only smoke and mirrors I get from the Treasures is the illusion thrown by my system.

NOS Valves · « **Reply #50 on:** 12 Jan 2011, 05:47 pm »

Dude if anyone is a drama queen that would be you.... The difference your describing is pure BS... folks hear all kind of things trying to justify the ridicules money they spend.... while a small sonic difference may exist it absolutely is not large enough for anyone but the "self professed golden ears" type to hear!!

"you clearly HAVE NOT tried the Treasures"

THE ABOVE STATEMENT BY YOU IS CALLING ME A LIAR. You just don't have the balls to just come out and say it like a man.

Pez · « **Reply #51 on:** 12 Jan 2011, 07:57 pm »

I read your thread, you've tried the treasures. I was wrong. Sorry. I still hope my ability to enjoy my system isn't hampered by the smoke and mirrors.

Niteshade · « **Reply #52 on:** 12 Jan 2011, 08:03 pm »

Hi Everyone!

How a output or small signal tube performs is largely dependent on the circuit. Since Brand A is not made exactly like Brand B, there can be differences.

AKA: What works great in amp #1 could sound horrid in amp #2.

My advice: You won't know how it works in your system via someone else's observations. You may as well get some of your own and try them.

putz · « **Reply #53 on:** 12 Jan 2011, 08:14 pm »

Quote from: Niteshade on 12 Jan 2011, 08:03 pm

Hi Everyone!

How a output or small signal tube performs is largely dependent on the circuit. Since Brand A is not made exactly like Brand B, there can be differences.

AKA: What works great in amp #1 could sound horrid in amp #2.

My advice: You won't know how it works in your system via someone else's observations. You may as well get some of your own and them.

I'd love to be able to roll all of these tubes at will. The only problem is a lot of these Quads run $200 and up and there is no 30 day return policy that I am aware of on most tubes. Plus it gives us something to argue about. That's a win-win in my book.

Pez · « **Reply #54 on:** 12 Jan 2011, 08:30 pm »

Quote from: Niteshade on 12 Jan 2011, 08:03 pm

Hi Everyone!

How a output or small signal tube performs is largely dependent on the circuit. Since Brand A is not made exactly like Brand B, there can be differences.

AKA: What works great in amp #1 could sound horrid in amp #2.

My advice: You won't know how it works in your system via someone else's observations. You may as well get some of your own and try them.

Agreed 100% I love em, I recommend them and they work better than the Pentas could ever hope to in my system as well as many of the people I have recommended them to. That is enough to keep me happy.

NOS Valves · « **Reply #55 on:** 12 Jan 2011, 08:34 pm »

Quote from: Pez on 12 Jan 2011, 07:57 pm

I read your thread, you've tried the treasures. I was wrong. Sorry. I still hope my ability to enjoy my system isn't hampered by the smoke and mirrors.

All is forgotten....Your welcome to enjoy your system anyway you see fit. You also have every right to believe the differences you post about these tubes. But then so do I...

I do have a couple questions for you.

What amp or amps have you been auditioning these tube in?

How long have you owned the amps and which brand KT-88's have you used in the amp previous to these Treasure tubes?

I think I know how they came up with the name for these tubes....it has more to do with the treasures there making selling them

Pez · « **Reply #56 on:** 12 Jan 2011, 08:48 pm »

Here are my DIY SET amps. I have tried the treasures in those amps, some highly modded ST70s, and Response audio Bella 3205. I have rolled everything from NOS GE, tungsol, RCA to new stock Pentas (the SCs, not the 98s) GL kt66 kt77s kt88s, Standard issue shuguangs, Electro harmonix etc etc etc etc etc.

My amps.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=73713.0
They are in active triamp configuration to a pair of RM40s that have had their xovers yanked out.

NOS Valves · « **Reply #57 on:** 12 Jan 2011, 09:41 pm »

Strange coincidence!! I just had one of those simple SE amps on my bench the other day. The original DIY builder made some pretty blantent error in the wiring and sent it to me because he couldn't get it to work. Nice amp! I think the design could be improved upon but did not have the time to play with it. I'm going to point to point wire something similar when I have some time. I'll laso use a bit better iron then Edcor (not that Endcor is bad for the $). I don't have time right now to post in detail on this but will come back in the next couple days and chew some fat with you.

Did you build that wood chassis? Very nice!
Craig

Pez · « **Reply #58 on:** 12 Jan 2011, 09:55 pm »

My buddy built the cabs. I could have, but it wouldn't have looked like that.

rajacat · « **Reply #59 on:** 12 Jan 2011, 10:03 pm »