Speaker Cable Comparison

Wayne1 · « **on:** 29 Jan 2003, 01:20 am »

This past Saturday, Jason, Steve (reefrus) and I got together at Tyson's to listen to quite a few different things.

Steve has just ordered a pair of RM-40s and wanted to compare some cables.

I brought over a pair of CC89259 speaker cables, a just completed pair of M-80 speaker cables and my pair of KKSV-2 Kimber Kable limited edition speaker cables.

The KKSV-2 cable is based on the geometry used in the Kimber Kable select series but it uses very expensive solid core copper wire and two runs of silver stranded wire. This is a very thick bundle of cable. IF this cable was available for sale, I would guess the retail would be around $4500.00 for the 15 foot pair I have. It uses the WBT angled spades.

The M-80 cable we listened to was a 10 foot pair. it will sell for $300.00 with the PCOCC Rhodium Plated spades.

Tyson normally uses a pair of NITRO speaker cable in a 12 foot length. It will sell for around $700.00. It is made will a very low mass set of gold plated copper spades.

The CC89259 was also a 12 foot pair with WBT connectors that sold for $400.00

We first compared the MENSA DI/O to the smART DI/O and decided to use the MENSA for the rest of the comparisons.

I put in the M-80s and everyone was surprised with the amount and tightness of the low end. There was little, if any, difference between the M-80s and the NITRO cable in very low bass.

The difference was there in mid to high end "sweetness" and definition.
The NITRO was the better sounding cable.

The CC89259 was put in next.

What a DIFFERENCE!

In comparison to the M-80, the CC89259 was slow and tubby. Bass was very flabby with very little impact and extension. Highs sounded smeared in contrast.

We then put in the KKSV-2.

The Kimber design had just an effortless bass. It was readily apparent that the low end of this cable was in an entirely different ballpark.

We compared the NITRO to the KKSV-2.

We thought the NITRO had faster highs and a slightly more defined midrange.

We then set up the KKSV-2 and the NITRO up in an bi-wire configuration from the Dual mono Stratos into the RM-40s.

We tried the KKSV-2 on the woofers and the NITROs on the mids and tweets and then we reversed them.

We felt that the Kimber was best on the woofers and the NITROs best on the mids and tweets. That is how we listened for the rest of the afternoon.

I was VERY pleased that the M-80 speaker cable sounded as good as it did. I feel it is a great sounding cable for the money.

The comparison of the NITRO cable to the KKSV-2 also made me very happy. The fact that a $700.00 pair of cables can play in the same arena as $4500.00 pair of cables is very satisfying.

If cost is no object, the Kimber Kable Select Series speaker cables should be auditioned.

Hopefully Tyson, Jason and Steve will add their impressions.

Tyson · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 Jan 2003, 04:56 am »

OK, Wayne covered a lot of ground already, so I'll chime in with some of my own impressions.

M80 speaker wire - for the $$ it was great. Bass was strong and tight, mids were spot on, but it was a little closed in compared to the Nitro's top end. The M80's still give you the heart of the music (emotional involvement and impact), and just losing out a little in the sense of "space recreation". Soundstage from left to right was just as good as the Nitro, but it was the "depth" and "air" that it just was not quite as good. Overall, the M80 was great, MUCH better than I expected it to be after looking at how "puny" it looked, especially in comparison to the anaconda sized KKSV speaker wire Wayne brought along. If you've heard the M80 interconnect, then you have a very good idea of just how good the speaker wire is, cause they sounded very similar in quality and sonic signiture to my ears. Just as the M80 interconnect is a smokin bargain, so is the M80 speaker wire. (Wayne really needs to come up with different names for the the speaker wire though, it gets confusing!)

Speaking of, I finally got a full measure of just how good the Nitro speaker wire was when we compared it to the KKSV. On the stuff we listened to, the KKSV was certainly more relaxed and effortless sounding, and all parts of the frequency spectrum were perfectly integrated in to the same "sound", one of smooth authority. This is a damn fine piece of work, and hats off to Kimber on this.

The Nitro speaker wire was, IMO, of similar quality, but of different character. Again, it was perfectly integrated in sound across the frequency spectrum. Where the KKSV was a little mellow, the Nitro was more upfront. Where the KKSV was slightly "rounded" sounding, the Nitro was more angular. But the Nitro wasn't harsh or agressive sounding, it was utterly smooth and clear, just not mellow. The KKSV is like a Bosendorfer piano, the Nitro a Steinway.

Now, the Mensa vs. the smArt. There was a bigger difference in quality between the smArt and the Mensa than there was between the KKSV and the M80 speaker wire. For $150 more than the smArt, the Mensa is a stupidly easy choice. In fact, I don't see why Wayne would continue selling the smArt, since the Mensa spanks it so completely and thoroughly. I would specify point by point where the Mensa was better, if there were some areas that the smArt were close, but there isn't. Unfortunately, I've still got the smArt (not that I'm complaining, it still a great piece, but it's been superseeded, in my mind at least).

Couple of other things and I'm done. Got to hear the DIY superlatives at last. Toward the end of the listening session, we started swapping cables in and out "blind", so that the people listening did not know what was in the system. The Superlatives weren't bad at all. Not as good as the M80's IMO, but certainly very worth the $$ that they go for.

Also got to hear a pair of CAT cables SilverCats, they were a little dissapointing. Not bad cables by any stretch, but just not the "wow" factor like I was hoping. But there's an interesting twist to this. We also had a pair of SilverCats that were modified slightly - basically the PVC tubing was removed and replaced with TechFlex, and the WBT connectors were replaced with Bullet Plugs. Everything else was kept the same. This version sounded GREAT. I don't know if CAT cables offer's Bullet Plugs, or if they will offer them w/out the PVC covering, but if they do, jump on it, cause this cable really kicked ass.

Well, that's all for now, thanks for reading. . .[/i]

Kishore · « **Reply #2 on:** 29 Jan 2003, 05:29 am »

Thank you Wayne and Tyson for your time and effort. Very nicely put. If Wayne's Nitro is close to KKSV, then this is a fantastic achievement by Wayne. I have heard the KKSVs and they are great speaker cables.

Mensa has been added to my "TO DOs" investment soon

I think a Nitro+bybee+cryo speaker cable would be tough cable to beat esp for $$-....

I hope I become richer sooner than later

Cheers,
Kishore

Jay S · « **Reply #3 on:** 29 Jan 2003, 05:55 am »

I agree; my MENSA sounds terrific, well worth an extra $150 over the smART. Would love to have it and my Bolder digital with bullets cryo'd (he, he, too much is not enough

).

Mike Matheson · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 Jan 2003, 07:24 am »

Sorry for the off topic post, but I'm wondering if you guys can provide any thoughts/feedback on how the Dual mono Stratos sounded vs. any RM40 rigs you've heard with the AMPZilla 2000 monos. . .

Wayne1 · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 Jan 2003, 01:35 pm »

Mike,

I have only heard the RM/X with the AMPZILLA 2000.

I have never heard them with RM-40s.

I believe Juan E and TKP both have RM-40s with AMPZILLA 2000.

The AMPZILLA is quite an amazing amp. I,too, would love to listen to a comparison between it and the JC-1 monoblocks and the Stratos extreme monoblocks.

Hantra · « **Reply #6 on:** 29 Jan 2003, 03:49 pm »

I hate that I missed out on the KKSV-2!!!! I have compared the KKSV-1's to many different cables, and I ended up preferring the 47 Labs to the KKSV-1. I am surely going to KKSV-3 though, and I can't wait!

B

Pez · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 Jan 2003, 03:07 am »

Guys, I'm so sorry I haven't been participating much on the website lately. Honestly I shouldn't even be on it now as I have work to do (it's 8:00 pm here in denver and I'm still @#$%ing working

) I will try hard to add comments, but lately I just haven't had any time. Any way Tyson and Wayne seem to have it pretty well covered, except Tyson's failure to admit the superiority of my system

Xi-Trum · « **Reply #8 on:** 30 Jan 2003, 03:31 am »

Wayne, I find it interesting that you have high praises for the ampzilla, considering that you think very little of the LeAmp. In my system, the ampzilla and the LeAmp sound very similar. They have very similar tonality. The ampzilla is a teeny tiny bit sweeter sounding and I do mean teeny tiny bit. The ampzilla is more refined sounding. It's smoother and more "polite" sounding. The LeAmp is a bit more "etchy" in the midrange. Thus, the ampzilla sounds more pleasing and relaxed. Plus, the ampzilla has better low bass control. With the ampzilla, I'm paying extra (10X) for the extra bit of refinement and the power to drive almost any load.

Mike, if you like accurate and neutral sound, go for the ampzilla. If you like the signature Odyssey sound, i.e. warm side of neutral as some Odyssey owners had put it (and of which I concur), it's a good bet that you may not like the ampzilla.

My system: nOrh CD-1 -> Bent preamp-> Ampzilla 2000 -> Rm40.

Jay S · « **Reply #9 on:** 30 Jan 2003, 04:29 am »

I think you guys should try the Le Amp with a good power filter. I don't hear any midrange etch on Guan's system (he's got my Le amps hooked up to the De Zorel Audio Reference Senior).

Xi-Trum · « **Reply #10 on:** 31 Jan 2003, 01:47 am »

Hi Jay, it's a relative thing. When compared to the Ayre, one would have to look hard to find that the LeAmp is slightly etched. With the Ampzilla, it's easily discernable. But that doesn't mean the difference is night and day. Having paid so much for the Ampzilla, I'd like to say so. But that just wasn't the case.

Sorry for the off-topic post, Wayne. Just wanna give Mike some feedback.

Nikko · « **Reply #11 on:** 31 Jan 2003, 06:28 am »

A quick note on the Silvercats that Tyson said "kicked ass" with mods. I don't understand how removing the PVC would impact the sound but the bullet mod I can understand. I know his Quantum Silver Centauri uses bullets and for a small fee he will substitute bullets on the Silvercats.

duff138 · « **Reply #12 on:** 1 Feb 2003, 03:21 am »

How would these compare to Zu's Wax speaker cables? I know a few of you have done some comparisons in the past between the Wax cables and other Bolder Company speaker cables.

Jay S · « **Reply #13 on:** 1 Feb 2003, 06:13 am »

Thanks, Dan. I'd be curious to hear the Ampzilla at some point. And, the Stratos as well, as both have been compared with the Le Amps, which I think are truly wonderful amps in the right system. Anyway, I'll end this now as the thread is about speaker cable. Sorry for hijacking the thread, Wayne!

reefrus · « **Reply #14 on:** 2 Feb 2003, 08:39 pm »

Hi all,
Sorry for not being very active in this forum lately,been traveling very much this couple of weeks.I'd like to thank Wayne for bring all the cables for comparison and Tyson for demo his mighty RM-40,very impressive indeed and also Jason for his good company.All in all,it was great fun.I was very happy with the Nitro performance,and M-80 is really run for the money.Wayne and Tyson cover pretty much what we heard that day,am looking forward to the next gethering.I should have my RM-40 next couple days,unfortunetly,I'll gone again this week,so I can't even break them in,but I'll report in the near future!
Happy Listening!
Steve

Carlman · « **Reply #15 on:** 4 Feb 2003, 08:24 pm »

What is the capacitance of these speaker cables?
Also, has anyone heard the Audio Magic Extreme speaker cable? Is the M80 in a different league? Or is the M80 in a league of its own and a 'giant killer'?

I understand the top end isn't as nice as the Nitro but, I'm looking at sub-250 speaker cable for a 10' pair. I don't mind buying used or trying a few in my system.. I just need to line up a few to audition. I can't afford to buy and sell several pairs.

Ideally, I'd like to wire the inside of my amp with the same cable as I'm using to the speakers.... since I'm building the amp and need wire for that too.

Thanks for any comments.
-Carl

Wayne1 · « **Reply #16 on:** 4 Feb 2003, 11:12 pm »

The speaker cables have not been measured.

A star quad design is inherently lower capacitance than a braided design.

I do not think you would have to worry about your amp oscillating with these cables.

I have not heard any Audio Magic speaker cables.

The only cables I have compared to the M-80 speaker cables are the ones I wrote about at the top of the post.

I do not sell any raw or bulk cable.

The ONLY way you can find out if you will like ANY cable is to listen to it on your own system.

djbnh · « **Reply #17 on:** 12 May 2003, 11:43 pm »

I'm interested in you discussing how you feel the M-80 interconnects and speaker cable might work with an Odyssey Stratos amp (capo upgrade) and Tempest preamp. I'd be interested in how you feel the M-80s would stack up to Groneberg cables and interconnects. In advance, thanks for your response.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 May 2003, 11:58 pm »

I have not really spent much time listening to the Groneberg cables.

I know Tyson tried them at one point.

I believe Marbles has tried them as well.

They both now own NITRO interconnects and speaker cable

There should be no problem using M-80s with Odyssey gear.

The overall sound of your system does depend on your speakers and what, if any, room treatment you have done.

The M-80 series has a very natural sound that is very quick with a deep and punchy low end.

I just shipped Maxcast his pair of M-80 speaker cables today, that he will be using with a Stratos. I hope he will add some comments this weekend.

BikeWNC · « **Reply #19 on:** 13 May 2003, 01:41 am »

djbnh,

I have Bolder Cable Bybeed Nitros between my DAC and Pre and from Pre to my Odyssey Monos. The bybeed Nitro cables are a very articulate, dynamic well extended IC. They work very well with my Extreme Monos. Perhaps Wayne could elaborate on the differences (besides substantial cost) between these and the M80s.

I will say that during the DAC shootout we held here in NC, the M80 IC was used between a Audio Research SP-6A tube preamp and Odyssey Monoblocks with excellent results. IMO, they are a great value for the money. I have not heard the Groneberg IC.

Andy