Why a lack of love for Pass Labs ?

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Why a lack of love for Pass Labs ?
« on: 7 Dec 2010, 07:16 pm »
I did a search on the Pass X-250.5 here on the Circle, and was surprised to see quite a few opinions from people who made lackluster comments about Pass amps.  While I fully understand opinions and tastes differ greatly, the fairly large number of these posters seems odd when considering many consider Nelson Pass to be the pinnacle amp designer.
Just looking for thoughts on this.

sts9fan

Re: Why a lack of love for Pass Labs ?
« Reply #1 on: 7 Dec 2010, 07:28 pm »
I got mad love for Mr Pass and all he does nor the DIY community!!

ebag4

Re: Why a lack of love for Pass Labs ?
« Reply #2 on: 7 Dec 2010, 07:29 pm »
I agree, I don't recall reading too much on the Pass line, however the Firstwatt line has a very good following on this site.

Best,
Ed

turkey

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Re: Why a lack of love for Pass Labs ?
« Reply #3 on: 7 Dec 2010, 07:37 pm »
I don't know that I would buy one of his amps, but he makes solid products and he is very generous with his time and knowledge. He's a very nice guy and an excellent engineer.



jtwrace

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Re: Why a lack of love for Pass Labs ?
« Reply #4 on: 7 Dec 2010, 07:46 pm »
No lack of love here..I've owned the Aleph 30, X-1 & X-250 all at the same time.  I can't say enough about Nelson and his company.  In the end I found something better for my ears. 

One thing to remember about Pass and many others is that you pay A LOT of money for the really nice enclosures.  There is no doubt that the design is fantastic but there is equal to more money into the fancy enclosure. 

Big Red Machine

Re: Why a lack of love for Pass Labs ?
« Reply #5 on: 7 Dec 2010, 08:22 pm »
Solid, well engineered products.  Overpriced in comparison to other amps on a watt per watt basis in my opinion.  I felt the X350.5 was smooth but not authoritative in my experience.  The X1? preamp was nice but not musical to me.  I still respect their products.

TONEPUB

Re: Why a lack of love for Pass Labs ?
« Reply #6 on: 7 Dec 2010, 08:35 pm »
Tons of love for Nelson here...

Been buying his amps since the Threshold days.  Great products, great guy.  Love the First Watt stuff too..


roor

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Re: Why a lack of love for Pass Labs ?
« Reply #7 on: 7 Dec 2010, 09:15 pm »
I LOVE Pass Labs amps and preamps more than words can describe. All I can say is get the X-250.5 and don't look back! I agree that Nelson is a pleasure to deal with, and he devotes a lot of time into designing superior products and providing stellar customer service. The X and XA components are gorgeous eye candy and produce sound that still gives me goose bumps. Kent in customer service at Pass Labs is awesome as well. I've had the X-1 and X0.2 preamps and loved them. I also started my Pass Labs amp journey with the X-250.5 then moved to the XA-30.5 and currently have the XA-60.5 monoblocks. I've been "around the horn and back" with several other high high end audio manufacturers and Pass Labs are at the very top in my opinion. Mark Sammut at Reno Hi Fi is a true gentleman as well and that's where I get all my Pass Labs products. He has a huge inventory of new, demo and used and his service and pricing is unmatched (no, I don't work there:). He has a "no questions asked" 10 day trial period and a great upgrade program as well.
Pass Labs =  A+++++

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Re: Why a lack of love for Pass Labs ?
« Reply #8 on: 7 Dec 2010, 09:17 pm »
Solid, well engineered products.  Overpriced in comparison to other amps on a watt per watt basis in my opinion.  I felt the X350.5 was smooth but not authoritative in my experience.  The X1? preamp was nice but not musical to me.  I still respect their products.

Yup ... No one in those threads ever said it was bad equipment in any way ... But comments like this are common place, and I found it somewhat surprising. This is probably due to the reputation of Pass being a benchmark of perfection in most audio circles. I appreciate the honesty of those willing to say differently.

turkey

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Re: Why a lack of love for Pass Labs ?
« Reply #9 on: 7 Dec 2010, 09:47 pm »
One thing to remember about Pass and many others is that you pay A LOT of money for the really nice enclosures.  There is no doubt that the design is fantastic but there is equal to more money into the fancy enclosure.

That's what keeps me from buying anything of his. I don't buy stereo equipment to look at. If I want cool things to look at, there are lots of local artists I can buy things from (and have).


jtwrace

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Re: Why a lack of love for Pass Labs ?
« Reply #10 on: 7 Dec 2010, 10:40 pm »
That's what keeps me from buying anything of his. I don't buy stereo equipment to look at. If I want cool things to look at, there are lots of local artists I can buy things from (and have).

Yep.  It took me awhile to figure that all out...

sts9fan

Re: Why a lack of love for Pass Labs ?
« Reply #11 on: 7 Dec 2010, 10:50 pm »
For me it's the best of both worlds. Great industrial design and sound!  It is possible to enjoy both aspects, they do not have to be mutually exclusive.

Ericus Rex

Re: Why a lack of love for Pass Labs ?
« Reply #12 on: 7 Dec 2010, 11:12 pm »
That's what keeps me from buying anything of his. I don't buy stereo equipment to look at. If I want cool things to look at, there are lots of local artists I can buy things from (and have).

The Aleph series was the pinnacle of simple, no-frills enclosures.  Too bad it was discontinued in favor of the X series.

TONEPUB

Re: Why a lack of love for Pass Labs ?
« Reply #13 on: 7 Dec 2010, 11:19 pm »
I was a big fan of the Aleph amps too....

kingdeezie

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Re: Why a lack of love for Pass Labs ?
« Reply #14 on: 7 Dec 2010, 11:52 pm »
I just bought a Pass Labs 250.5.

I love it. Highs are excellent, very transparent, and looks awesome. Built like a tank.

Replaced odyssey kismets monos in my system.

Go for it if you are considering it.

davidrs

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Re: Why a lack of love for Pass Labs ?
« Reply #15 on: 8 Dec 2010, 12:01 am »
For me it's the best of both worlds. Great industrial design and sound!  It is possible to enjoy both aspects, they do not have to be mutually exclusive.

I, for one, dig industrial design in our homes. It is wonderful that audio companies pursue aesthetic design goals. There are a number of reasons why some gear is displayed in museums. Another expression and facet of our essence.

I find myself richer for it and from it, whatever the product. The designers are certainly richer too  8)

As an example, folks here on AC gush about Jim Salk's work and can barely control themselves to get photos of their speakers posted.

I wonder what percentage of buyers would fall off if Jim did not offer the level of finish and workmanship that he does, despite lower price points for a 'plain' and 'basic' unfinished box. People are buying for the 'looks' and the way they connect to and value those attributes, and are paying a premium for it.

BTW, Jim, you have my permission to place a pair of your superbly finished SoundScapes in my personal museum! 10 or 12s, your choice. The Vivid's are out on loan.

Same holds for PASS components. The design elements and aspects are beautiful.

Our primary sense is visual.

When it works for your ears and eyes....!!!



Gopher

Re: Why a lack of love for Pass Labs ?
« Reply #16 on: 8 Dec 2010, 01:08 am »
Pass gear is wonderful, imo.  I lived for years with a Firstwatt F1, for weeks with an F1j and am borrowing a fellow ACers Alephs at the moment. 

Really good stuff, liquid, transparant, warmer side of neutral and uber engaging.  If I had to go SS I'd probably do a pass design.

HAL

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Re: Why a lack of love for Pass Labs ?
« Reply #17 on: 8 Dec 2010, 01:20 am »
My favorite amps are the Pass Labs Aleph 2 monoblocks that I own.  Very nice sounding amps with pleanty of power for my speakers.  I started with the Son of Zen DIY amp and progressed to the A2's. :thumb:

arthurs

Re: Why a lack of love for Pass Labs ?
« Reply #18 on: 8 Dec 2010, 01:21 am »
I, for one, dig industrial design in our homes. It is wonderful that audio companies pursue aesthetic design goals. There are a number of reasons why some gear is displayed in museums. Another expression and facet of our essence.

I find myself richer for it and from it, whatever the product. The designers are certainly richer too  8)

Our primary sense is visual.

When it works for your ears and eyes....!!!

Ditto, well said.

ratso

Re: Why a lack of love for Pass Labs ?
« Reply #19 on: 8 Dec 2010, 01:24 am »
funny, maybe not on this side but i think overall pass (and probably atma-sphere) are the MOST loved of amps.