[Wayner]

I'm really liking it, except for a couple of issues. First, some photos:

 

 

 
 

First off, I did not listen to the stock cartridge, the ATP-2. I do have my AVA Grado Gold1 Longhorn mounted and it tracks real nice. The table is heavy, well built and the arm can really produce some nice air in the recordings, things that the Project Debut III, or the Stanton could not do.

This thing will play the usual 33s, 45 and 78s and has pitch adjustment, but in the pitch lock position, it's right on the seeds. Oh, this is a direct drive. It comes with a captive interconnect, but seems to be of sufficient quality. The unit also boasts an internal preamp which I have not used yet, and also has a USB port for computer archiving, it also has Audacity software to download onto your computer to do direct to computer archiving. I have not tried this out, either.

Here are some of the quirks. At start up, the platter makes a noise, but then is silent. No big deal I guess. Next, the anti-skating is not accurate. I had to peg it to make the arm behave as I want it to with my blank disc. I will investigate this later on.

No, I wont be sending this one back.

I'm going to put an AT440MLa in it later, and I am going to expect stellar performance out of this machine.

So for now, unless something weird happens again, this absolutely has to be the best buy in tables under $500, IMHO.

Wayner 

[Bear Heath]

Wayner, besides usb and the internal preamp how is this unit different from the Technics SL1200?  Thanks
Sean

[Charles Calkins]

Wayner:
 I'm seeing by the photos that the tone arm is running down hill from the mount. On my Rega P3 with the Longhorn Gold my tone arm is kind of the opposite. The tone arm looks like it is running a little bit up hill. Which is correct? Or does it make no matter which way the tone arm runs. Your TT I see has a height adjustment for this mine doesn't. The cartridge on my Rega looks like it is pretty much parallel to the LP. On yours it is kind of nose into the LP. Just another DUMB!! question.

                                          Cheers
                                           Charlie

[Wayner]

Charles,

That is called SRA. It should be about 2 degrees from square to the world. In my photo, I haven't even addressed that at that time. Now, the tonearm is even more ass ended up.

This table will beat many tables many times it price as me and the misses are finding out as we listen to it thru the evening.

Wayner 

[Wayner]

Throw the supplied cartridge away, it tracks at 3.5 grams. Might as well tape a few pennies to the top of the headshell. Why they did this is beyond me.

Except for a couple of tweaks that I'm working on, this table still is incredible.

Wayner 

[Wayner]

This morning I have installed the AT 440MLa cartridge into this deck and well, it beats my Technics SL1200MKII for soundstage and imaging. This is certainly a fine TT. Great for newbies or otherwise.

Wayner 

[analognut]

I can see this will develop into a long, interesting thread with wayner making statements like that!

Wayner, will you try out the preamp & USB? You got me interested. 

[Wayner]

Not trying to start any fights, I just have the two decks side by side  with the exact same cartridge in them. Certainly for the money, and with  the (if you can get them) Technics series starting at $900, this seems  to be a best buy for sure.
 
 Yes, I will try out the USB at some point. I also want to run it thru  Frank's Insight+ DAC, just for the hell of it. I am not liking the AT's  anti-skate as it doesn't work that well, but I am waiting for the glue  to dry on my fix for that problem. I will publish photos when I'm  confident this is the fix for that problem.
 
 I also sent a letter to Audio Technica about 4 complaints, the  anti-skate being one of them. The other three have to do with the  counterweight dial (too loose), the dust cover hinges (need to be  fastened down), and finally, why the 3.5 gram tracking ATP-2 cartridge. I  also had a suggestion to supply RCA jacks instead of the 1 meter long  interconnects.
 
 Wayner

[Wayner]

Here are some photos of the anti-skate tweak.

 
 
 
 

Wayner

[orthobiz]

I don't get it Wayner. Are you doing this for grins or do you have a secret project with Frank. Anyway, I'm interested because my youngest will need a new table and I'm torn between brand new or refurbished, like a Thorens TD-145.

I went to the AT website and they have a 240 model also, maybe a different motor, etc. Funny that they only come with the USB. Makes me wonder if electronics are so cheap nowadays that it only adds a few bucks. To me it seems like it could be offered cheaper without unnecessary doodads.

Paul

[neobop]

Very interesting Wayner. The deck has a nice look to it. I think that's a DJ cart they put on there - back cueing and all that. I like your anti-skate device. How much does the ball weigh, 4g?

Thanks for the thread. Good stuff.
neo

[Wayner]

Unfortunately, that was the last weight that I have that is that size, but one slightly smaller is 1.5 grams, so I'll guess at 2 grams. I may change the weight, as I know I can get a bit better balance, but that will require a trip to the hardware store.

I'll weigh the weight before I install it. If others choose a different cartridge, this weight could change, you have to experiment. You also need a blank disc.

Paul, I'm doing this to help out the newbies, but wanted to see how low on the scale a table could be and still have quality. To say I didn't have further plans would make me a liar.

Wayner 

[jrtrent]

Some manufacturers believe that the blank disc method of setting anti-skate results in too much being applied.  For example, Sumiko writes, "Anti-Skate (or mechanical bias) is added to compensate for this force in order to equalize the stylus tracking on the sides of the groove walls. Because this is a dynamic force, do not attempt adjustment using a blank or grooveless record, as this will result in over compensation."  For lower compliance models, and most DJ cartridges are low complance, they recommend setting the anti-skate value well under the tracking force setting (e.g., they recommend using 1.0-1.5 on the anti-skate scale with a tracking force of 2 grams for their Blue Point Special Evo III).  And, of course, Harry Weisfeld (VPI) and Edgar Villchur (AR) have stated that anti-skate devices can do more harm than good.

Tonepub mentioned a few years ago that in the review process at Toneaudio, "It [AT-PL120] actually had a more open sound than the SL1200 we had in for review.  Im sure it was a diff in cabling that could be easily cured, but compared side by side, we all preferred the sound of the AT... (I know this will open a huge can of worms...)."  So you're not alone in liking the way it sounds.

As Neobop noted, the supplied cartridge is intended for DJ use.  Like most such cartridges, it tracks at somewhat heavier forces (3 to 5 grams seems typical for this use from Shure, Stanton, Ortofon, etc.) and can stand up to back-cueing.  The common advertising blurb reads, " . . . the perfect cartridge for professional and DJ use. It was developed specifically to meet the needs for professional record playing. With its rigid, tapered tube for the stylus cantilever, records can be safely back-cued without harm. A high visibility paint dot on the stylus tip eases cueing, even in poor light. The cartridge is designed to track at practical pressures preferred for most professional tonearms."    It would be interesting to get your opinion of its sound.  I've read good things about it, but I've never heard this model (though I've had good results from other DJ-oriented cartridges).  Pretty amazing value if the cartridge is at all decent (and the cartridge itself retails for about $145, though that includes an extra stylus).

[Wayner]

There is a methodology to setting anti-skate with a blank disc, and those secrets I will not spill. However, we know by sound and cantilever behavior that using the method is spot on. In fact, there are several tables that end up with the anti-skate setting, matching my method. They are the Sony PS-X5, X7 as well as the Rega RB300 arm. The Technics are very close.

I have also had others tell me that the technique of setting anti-skating is confirmed using test records.

Wayner

[jrtrent]

. . . and those secrets I will not spill.

And here I thought you were doing all this to help others!

Just kidding.  I brought up the information on anti-skate in my previous post to suggest that a weak anti-skate mechanism shouldn't be a deal-breaker, especially given the unit's price and intended use.  According to Sumiko's information, a somewhat weak anti-skate mechanism might be just right for low-compliance, DJ-oriented cartridges (and Shure even recommends setting anti-skate to zero for DJ use).  Have you had a chance to check cantilever behavior and sound with various anti-skate settings for this type of cartridge? 

[Wayner]

The supplied cartridge is an Audio Technica ATP-2 with a recommended tracking weight of 3.5 grams, which is 2 grams heavier then I care to run on my records. My suggestion is to throw the cartridge away.

I am running the AT440MLa at 1.5 grams and it is a very excellent combo, with the anti-skate tweak.

I'm still processing the table, so If I have anything new, I will comment on those things.

Wayner 

[Delta Wave]

There is a methodology to setting anti-skate with a blank disc, and those secrets I will not spill. However, we know by sound and cantilever behavior that using the method is spot on. In fact, there are several tables that end up with the anti-skate setting, matching my method. They are the Sony PS-X5, X7 as well as the Rega RB300 arm. The Technics are very close.

I have also had others tell me that the technique of setting anti-skating is confirmed using test records.

Wayner

I use the blank disc and it's spot-on 99% of the time.

[*Scotty*]

The new edition of the HFNRR Test LP The Producer's Cut is a good tool to have for setting up a turntable.
A description can be found here,be sure and read the notes section.  http://www.soundscapehifi.com/hifi-news-test-lp.htm
Other test records can be found at the Needle Doctor,this includes the Cardas Frequency Sweep and Burn-in Record with a blank space for setting anti-skate.
http://www.needledoctor.com/New/LP-Test-Records
Some type of test record must be considered essential to achieving the proper setup of a TT thus insuring low stylus wear and minimizing distortion during record playing.
Scotty
 

[neobop]

Here are some of the quirks. At start up, the platter makes a noise, but then is silent.
Wayner 

This is the only part that bothers me. Have you figured out what kind of noise this is? The bearing? I think the SL-1200 requires lubrication (unlike some other DD), what about the AT?
neo

[Wayner]

I think it's the DD motor, kicking the platter in the butt to it get going. I hear the same noise when I put my Discwasher brush on the record, with the platter moving. I suspect it's the tables brains, attempting to adjust the speed. The platter does have a rather fast start up, which is nice and the break (at turn off is really fast).

This afternoon, I will plunk the Sony PS-X7 in the ATs spot and see if I've been missing anything.

Wayner