[lcrim]

 This appears to be an excellent way to get a Logitech player hardwired w/o having to drill holes or climb into attics etc.
http://www.newegg.com/Store/BrandSubCategory.aspx?Brand=1233&SubCategory=294&name=Powerline-Networking

Anybody have any experiences to share about this?

[srb]

While it may be an easier logistical networking solution, I'm not sure why one would want to facilitate digital signals riding on AC lines, when the typical audiophile often employs expensive filtering measures and tries very hard to suppress that kind of AC line pollution.
 
Steve

[lcrim]

Steve:
The signals being sent are ethernet not digital.  The Logitech devices send ethernet packets to the players which convert these packets to either digital or analog output.

[srb]

Steve:
The signals being sent are ethernet not digital.  This is the major problem w/ USB connections, they are actual music streams and would be affected as you state.  The Logitech devices send ethernet packets to the players which convert these packets to either digital or analog output.

Larry,
 
I didn't say it was a digital S/PDIF audio stream, I am just saying that Ethernet (a digital signal transmission) would be crap superimposed on the AC waveform.  This would not be a problem for the typical computer/home entertainment user, but for audiophiles (who are not using battery powered components) ...... need I say more?
 
Steve

[lcrim]

Steve:
That's ridiculous, either data transmision is accurate or it isn't.  You are sending data.  If its accurate with other forms of data, then its accurate with music as well.

[srb]

Steve:
That's ridiculous,either data transmision is accurate or it isn't.  You are sending data not music.  If its accurate with other forms of data, then its accurate with music as well.

Ridiculous!  Nonsense!  Who are you, Nagy?

You're completey missing my point.  I'm not talking about a data transmission being accurate or not.  I'm talking about digital crap on the power line infiltrating other AC powered analog audio circuits.
 
Steve

[lcrim]

Steve:
This method of communications does actually work.  If you have some experience to counter this, state it.   
The crack comparing me to Nagy is out of line.

[srb]

Steve:
This method of communications does actually work.  If you have some experience to counter this, state it.   
The crack comparing me to Nagy is out of line.

Larry,
 
I retract the statement.  Comparing anyone to Nagy is out of line.  But it would also serve you to not rush in with 'Ridiculous', when you obviously misunderstood my response.
 
I will make one final comment, as I did not intend for this to be a debate, but merely wanted to offer my opinion.  I am not saying that powerline networking is not effective, or implying that is inaccurate or flawed.  I have made that perfectly clear.
 
But from an audiophile point of view, many are dilligently trying to filter and eradicate unwanted noise from their AC lines.  This noise comes from a variety of sources, inlcuding solid state dimmers and switching power supplies.  Switching power supplies can add noise on the powerline, and I think most electronics professionals and audio experts will not dispute that.
 
As I said in the beginning, in the case of powerline networking, you are willingly superimposing a digital signal to ride on the AC waveform, as opposed to some small amount feeding back from a switching power supply.  It may or may not have an effect on your audio system, depending on your components and your power conditioning, whether it be a Torus, MajikBUSS, APC or whatever.
 
It is just something that an audiophile, who is often searching for the cleanest, most noise-free path, would want to consider and be mindful of.
 
Thank you,
 
Steve
 
 

[skunark]

The idea of having high frequency noise on the power lines seems not at all desirable but we are talking about toggle rates in MHz way beyond the audible range and perhaps would really be in the noise.   What is worse, imho, is the security  aspect of this signal traveling to your neighbors even if you enabled encryption.   

[firedog]

The idea of having high frequency noise on the power lines seems not at all desirable but we are talking about toggle rates in MHz way beyond the audible range and perhaps would really be in the noise.   What is worse, imho, is the security  aspect of this signal traveling to your neighbors even if you enabled encryption.   

If I understand how powerline networking works, the network can only exist between outlets on the same circuit. This can be a problem, meaning a few of your neighbors could be on the same transformer (circuit). There are, however, powerline networking solutions that encrypt the data, making it very unlikely your neighbors could "eavesdrop'.

[Scott F.]

Here's an article I wrote a number of years ago on the subject.

Bandwidth

Scroll down to the Bandwidth header.

[lcrim]

After more research, running ethernet over interior powerlines would probably cause unwanted noise.  Couldn't find any specific article that spells this out in black and white but a number of people told that there may be noise issues as a result.
My apologies to Steve/srb.

[datman]

I have been using Logitech Ethernet Over Powerline connections first for my Transporter (4 years ) and now for my Touch.  It has been COMPLETELY reliable and causes no noise pollution problems that I am aware of.  It is a viable option where wireless is iffy and hard wiring an ethernet cable is impractical. 

[Bob in St. Louis]

Not sure if this matters, or anybody cares, but I just ran across this thread.
The other day I installed a 200Mbps Netgear powline adapter I got from BestBuy for $130 (for both pieces). It's hooked to a PS3 at one end of the house and is used for gaming. On the other end, it's wired to a "2WIRE" router/modem. I suppose the true measure for such a device would be "lag/stutter" free gaming. It does that perfectly. The extra bonus is you don't have to deal with WEP, passwords, security, etc....
The darn thing just works.

I can get links if you'd like.

Bob
p.s. Sorry for typos, gotta go.......

[scott_man]

FWIW, I have used the Netgear product with great success for well over a year now.

Does the powerline networking add noise?... don't know, without it, I would have to use two wireless repeaters to "reach" ... in my book, the powerline solution was:

• Better than no music server,
  
• Better than the instability of a LONG wireless network,
  
• Provided more flexibility for other uses of the home network (not all music, all the time  )
  

The powerline is plugged directly into the wall with Cat5 out... I use a balanced power transform for the audio gear.  I couldn't see (TV)/hear any changes when I hooked up the powerline wall-wart.

YMMV, but the powerline networking does work and at least in my system, I could not detect any changes (the BPT may be "fixing" the powerline noise and many other power-related sins).

Best of luck,

Scott.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Hey Scott, I fixed one word in there, for clarification. Hope you don't mind.
Bob

FWIW, I have used the Netgear product with great success for well over a year now.

Does the powerline networking add noise?... don't know, without it, I would have to use two wireless repeaters to "reach" ... in my book, the powerline solution was:

• Better than no music server,
  
• Better than the instability of a LONG wireless network,
  
• Provided more flexibility for other uses of the home network (not all music, all the time  )
  

The powerline is plugged directly into the wall with Ethernet out... I use a balanced power transform for the audio gear.  I couldn't see (TV)/hear any changes when I hooked up the powerline wall-wart.

YMMV, but the powerline networking does work and at least in my system, I could not detect any changes (the BPT may be "fixing" the powerline noise and many other power-related sins).

[kwl]

A word of caution with any powerline device - they must be on the SAME CIRCUIT.  The front of my house is on a different circuit than the back.  Unfortunately, my computer is in the front of the house and my AV equipment is in the back making these devices useless.

[scott_man]

Same Circuit... may not be an issue?

With the NetGear equipment, I did not experience a problem with the Netgear devices are plugged into different circuits, but the circuits are within the same electrical panel/sub-panel.  (I was very concerned that I would experience this problem).

Both of my Netgear devices ARE plugged directly into the wall outlets -- if either device is plugged into any type of power-conditioner/filter, all bets are off and the "network" does not establish.

I ran into a problem when I plugged the "router" end into the computer power strip rather than running a longer CAT5 cable back to a free wall outlet... fortunately, I had testing the connections with both of the Netgear devices plugged into that computer power strip before trying to run across the house, so I knew that I could establish connectivity.  (I discovered the error in my ways when I downloaded and read the Netgear manual -- go figure, it was actually in the "troubleshooting" section).

Once again, YMMV...

Scott B.

[kwl]

The front and back of my house may indeed be on different sub panels.  I'll have to check that.

Separately, are you saying that the router needs to be plugged into the wall directly rather than through a power strip (to the wall)?  I did run a long Cat5 cable to a free wall outlet to test the devices.

Thanks,

Ken

[Bob in St. Louis]

are you saying that the router needs to be plugged into the wall directly rather than through a power strip (to the wall)?

Yes, exactly. Not sure why, but that's what they say. I would *think* a cheapo power strip would work, just nothing that has power "cleaning" abilities.

Bob