[jw87c]

I used to be about 90/10 HT to music.  Then I got Salk speakers and that all changed.  Now I am about 40/60.  The movies are great but the music is compelling.

That's exactly what I'm thinking. I guess I'll listen to a lot more music if I get the Salk speakers 

[fsimms]

Jw87c,  I see from part II that you are consindering the ST-RT.  I have heard the HT3, HT1, SS10 and domed SongTowers.  I haven't heard the HT2-TL or the HT1-TL, but it is my impression that the ST-RT is about 10% better than the domed version of the SongTowers and the HT1-TL is 60 percent better than the ST-RT.  I also think that the HT2-TL is 15% better than the HT1-TL. 

Hence, I think if you are considering the ST-RT then you should consider the HT1-TL.   YMWV

Bob


PS. These are general comments based on limited data so take with a grain of salt.  Way too many factors to say for sure.

[Sonix]

I am very curious to hear your estimated percentage
difference between HT2-TLs and the SS-10s which are my
two main contenders.

Care to take a stab at it for me? I am thinking maybe around 15%?

Regards,
Ken

[Big Red Machine]

I am very curious to hear your estimated percentage
difference between HT2-TLs and the SS-10s which are my
two main contendors.

Care to take a stab at it for me? I am thinking maybe around 15%?

Regards,
Ken

SS's are in a different galaxy.  Much different sound.  Being open baffe up top they just open up the room and are effortless in their smooth top end and deep bottom.

[fsimms]

I am very curious to hear your estimated percentage
difference between HT2-TLs and the SS-10s which are my
two main contendors.

It is easier for me to judge on the various HT’s and SoundTower models as I have listened to a sample of both of them in my condo and in my own system.  I listened to an HT in my own system and a SS in Jim’s room on his equipment.  How do you separate the system and room effects from the sound of the speaker itself?  On my first impression thread, I did make some comparisons but I was just wild guessing.   I will get my SS10’s in a few weeks and then I can make a comparison that I will have some confidence in.

Bob

[fsimms]

I thought that I would expand on my previous post.  I ordered the SoundScape 10’s from Jim to replace my HT1’s after I heard the SS10’s at Jim’s.   The order was as much from my respect of Jim and Dennis as it was from what I heard.   A lot of music sounded glorious from Jim’s SS10’s but a lot of music sounds glorious on my own HT1’s.  I listen to vinyl mostly on my own system and didn’t listen to vinyl at Jim’s.  I conjectured that the biggest difference in sound was due to Jim’s large room and my small room.

Bob

[Sonix]

   I will get my SS10’s in a few weeks and then I can make a comparison that I will have some confidence in.

Bob

Thank You Very Much! That would be best. I look forward to your impressions!
Congrats!

Regards,
Ken

[jw87c]

That's interesting quantization. Seems like you also think the Veracity line and the STs are in two different leagues. After reading all the posts here and based on my own audition, now I'm more and more inclined to the HT2-TLs ...

Jw87c,  I see from part II that you are consindering the ST-RT.  I have heard the HT3, HT1, SS10 and domed SongTowers.  I haven't heard the HT2-TL or the HT1-TL, but it is my impression that the ST-RT is about 10% better than the domed version of the SongTowers and the HT1-TL is 60 percent better than the ST-RT.  I also think that the HT2-TL is 15% better than the HT1-TL. 

[catastrofe]

I am very curious to hear your estimated percentage
difference between HT2-TLs and the SS-10s which are my
two main contenders.

Care to take a stab at it for me? I am thinking maybe around 15%?

Regards,
Ken

Ken,

These were my choices also.  I took a road-trip to visit Jim in May. . .after listening to the SS10s I didn't even bother with the HT2-TLs.  The day before this I listened to Thiel CS3.7s.  The day after, I listened to Von Schweikert VR5 Anniversaries.  Two days later, I ordered the SS10s. . .

[Saturn94]

I am very curious to hear your estimated percentage
difference between HT2-TLs and the SS-10s which are my
two main contenders.

Care to take a stab at it for me? I am thinking maybe around 15%?

Regards,
Ken

I know this wasn't directed to me, but having heard the SongTower (dome tweeter), HT2-TL and SS10 at Dennis's place, I thought I'd add my impression.

I thought there was a bigger difference between the HT2-TL and SS10 than the HT2-TL and the SongTower (except for low bass extension/output).  Granted, I didn't do any extended listening to the SS10 (out of my price range ), so it could have mainly been the open sound of the SS10 that made it stand out more.  Whatever it was, it didn't take much listening at all to figure I really liked the SS10!  If I could choose between the HT2-TL and the SS10, I take the SS10 in a hearbeat!

[fsimms]

Seems like you also think the Veracity line and the STs are in two different leagues.

Yes I do!  Although, I think the domed SongTowers image a bit better and have great, but different, vocal reproduction. 

I thought there was a bigger difference between the HT2-TL and SS10 than the HT2-TL and the SongTower.  Granted, I didn't do any extended listening to the SS10 (out of my price range ), so it could have mainly been the open sound of the SS10 that made it stand out more.  Whatever it was, it didn't take much listening at all to figure I really liked the SS10!  If I could choose between the HT2-TL and the SS10, I take the SS10 in a hearbeat!

Kewl!

Bob

[jw87c]

If I could choose between the HT2-TL and the SS10, I take the SS10 in a hearbeat!

I guess I should refrain myself from listening to the SS10  . Otherwise even if I bought the HT2-TL, I'm afraid I won't be able to sleep well in the night. The SS10s are way out of my price range.

[Saturn94]

I guess I should refrain myself from listening to the SS10  . Otherwise even if I bought the HT2-TL, I'm afraid I won't be able to sleep well in the night. The SS10s are way out of my price range.

  Yeah, It was suggested that I not to listen to speakers I cannot afford, but I just had to do it!

[jw87c]

Finally I placed an order with Jim on a pair of front ported HT2-TLs in dark curly cherry finish. Now the waiting period officially starts ... 

My wife and I went to Bigload's house this past weekend to give the speakers a second listen. We listened to the STs with dome tweeter, front ported HT1-TLs, and HT2-TLs side by side, in an acoustically treated room with Oppo 83SE as the source, a Parasound preamp, and AVA amps. We really appreciate Bigload's efforts in moving all the heavy speakers around for our audition, especially the STs, which need to be moved from downstairs to upstairs. Those are some heavy lifting

We listened to some tracks from Jennifer Warnes, Nils Logfren's acoustic live, etc., and watched several movie clips from Transformers 2 and U-571. From the listening session, it is pretty obvious to all of us that the Veracity series are much better than the STs, in all the frequency ranges (I don't mean to bash STs here, 'cause they are also excellent speakers if you just listen to them by themselves. It's just that the HT1's and HT2's are in a different league.) The most obvious improvement is the sound stage. For the HT1 and HT2, the sound stage is clearly wider and deeper, and I was able to identify the exact location of some instruments in one of Jennifer Warner's track with the Veracity speakers. In addition, the bass is more powerful and the treble has a much better clarity when HT2s are played.

I agree with fsimms's assessment: the biggest improvement can be observed from ST to HT1. You can notice that HT2 is better than HT1, but the improvement is not that prominent. After comparing all the speakers, it is pretty obvious to me that the Veracity speakers would be my choice. Also I felt that the improvement of HT2 over HT1 is worth the extra $1000 bucks.

So long story short, I gave Jim a call and after several email exchanges, the waiting on the new speakers starts. Jim is really great to work with. He explained to me in details about the difference between the front ported version and rear ported version, and answered all the emails within 30 minutes. Now I hope the time will run faster, and it's literally a torture for me to wait for the new speakers ...

[gtommers]

The HT2-TL definitely has deeper bass, but IMO the ST dome has superior sound stage, instrument separation, and imaging.

[DMurphy]

The HT-2 definitely has superior bass, but IMO the ST dome has better soundstage, instrument separation, and imaging.

Interesting.  I was just going to post that I hadn't picked up on soundstaging specificity differences between the various models, but I'm not very sensitive to that.  I can't think of any particular reason why the Veracities should image better than the ST--the crossovers are very similar in terms of crossover frequency and phase integration.  The HT1 will image differently because it's a TM, not an MTM, but that wouldn't explain the differences between the HT2 and ST.  If anything, you would expect the ST to do better because of its smaller drivers and wider dispersion.  I'm not claiming there isn't a difference, or that the HT2's aren't better--only that I can't provide any scientific basis for why that should be true.   Maybe imaging is also affected by absolute distortion levels, and the Veracity woofers are better in that respect?

[gtommers]

Interesting.  I was just going to post that I hadn't picked up on soundstaging specificity differences between the various models, but I'm not very sensitive to that.  I can't think of any particular reason why the Veracities should image better than the ST--the crossovers are very similar in terms of crossover frequency and phase integration.  The HT1 will image differently because it's a TM, not an MTM, but that wouldn't explain the differences between the HT2 and ST.  If anything, you would expect the ST to do better because of its smaller drivers and wider dispersion.  I'm not claiming there isn't a difference, or that the HT2's aren't better--only that I can't provide any scientific basis for why that should be true.   Maybe imaging is also affected by absolute distortion levels, and the Veracity woofers are better in that respect?

The wider dispersion of the ST definitely seems like a good explanation for what I heard.

I think part of the problem is people hear what they want to hear (including me perhaps)

[jw87c]

I guess hearing what I want to hear might have something to do with it. 

I do remember during the Jennifer Warner piece, when listening to the HT1, I can clearly tell the location of a sand hammer: horizontally it is about a foot to the left of the left speaker, vertically it is about in the middle between my listening position and the speakers. While switching to the ST, the position of the sand hammer moves right next to the left speaker. The position of the sand hammer from HT2 is kind of between HT1 and ST.

Also I noticed that the Veracity speakers sound "fuller" in space, e.g. the sound fill the space better than the STs. It sounds to me like the wide sound stage of the STs is more or less constrained by the position of the two speakers, yet that of the Veracity speakers is a bit wider. Of course these also could be my wishful imaginations 

[cacophony777]

I guess hearing what I want to hear might have something to do with it. 

I do remember during the Jennifer Warner piece, when listening to the HT1, I can clearly tell the location of a sand hammer: horizontally it is about a foot to the left of the left speaker, vertically it is about in the middle between my listening position and the speakers. While switching to the ST, the position of the sand hammer moves right next to the left speaker. The position of the sand hammer from HT2 is kind of between HT1 and ST.

Also I noticed that the Veracity speakers sound "fuller" in space, e.g. the sound fill the space better than the STs. It sounds to me like the wide sound stage of the STs is more or less constrained by the position of the two speakers, yet that of the Veracity speakers is a bit wider. Of course these also could be my wishful imaginations 

It may also just be related to the speaker positions within the room. From my own experience exact speaker placement can make a big difference in a particular room.

[Bigload]

We had the speakers spaced exactly the same.  We had them all aimed to cross just behind the main listening position.  Worked pretty hard to eliminate placement variables.  And... I don't know why, but the HT2TL's do seem to produce a wider and deeper sound stage to me as well.  And... no bash at all on the SongTowers.  I own them too.  My hearing just tells me that every aspect of the HT2TL listening experience is better.  I guess that is why we would consider spending twice as much for them and are seldom, if ever, disappointed after we get them.  But again, Salk does not make any bad speakers.  Some just cost more and perform at higher levels than others.  Everybody has to decide for themselves whether they think the performance difference is worth the cost difference.  to some...yes.  to some....no.

jw87c-  Congrats on your decision!  You will be a happy man when those babies show up and you fire them up.  and... good luck with the wait.  That is the hard part, but is always worth it when the big day arrives.