My experience with STs and HT2-TL(Thanks to Bigload) (part 2 added)

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cacophony777

We had the speakers spaced exactly the same.  We had them all aimed to cross just behind the main listening position.  Worked pretty hard to eliminate placement variables.

I don't think it's possible to eliminate all the placement variables without physically moving the speakers into the same location for every switch. From what I've heard in my experiments the exact distance to all walls (side walls and front/back walls) make a noticeable difference in soundstage. And the positioning of other objects in the room (like other speakers for instance ;) probably has an effect as well.

Nuance

Congrats, jw87c!  There is nothing better than being sure you've chosen the right speaker for you, and you have.  Welcome to the Salk family!

Bigload

I don't think it's possible to eliminate all the placement variables without physically moving the speakers into the same location for every switch. From what I've heard in my experiments the exact distance to all walls (side walls and front/back walls) make a noticeable difference in soundstage. And the positioning of other objects in the room (like other speakers for instance ;) probably has an effect as well.

Agreed.  That was why we worked hard to do it the right way.  Moving speakers into positions, measuring distances from walls, setting extra speakers out of the listening area, etc.  Even doing all of that, it was probably still not perfect.  But I think it was very adequate to fully demonstrate the differences between the SongTowers, the HT1TLs and the HT2TLs.  It was a fun exercise (but a little hard on the back) and I am glad it all helped a new Salk family member make an informed decision.   

jw87c

jw87c-  Congrats on your decision!  You will be a happy man when those babies show up and you fire them up.  and... good luck with the wait.  That is the hard part, but is always worth it when the big day arrives.

Bigload, thanks so much for the efforts in moving all those heavy speakers around! I feel really lucky to have somebody living close by with three different types of Salk speakers. After listening to all three speakers with the same configurations, it seems to me the difference among them is pretty obvious. Now I'm counting hours and minutes ...

gtommers

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 12
After listening to all three speakers with the same configurations, it seems to me the difference among them is pretty obvious.

And I came to opposite conclusions in a similarly strict comparison :D
The wider dispersion of the ST tweeter made for a more realistic and enjoyable soundstage (which I value more than bass). It all comes down to individual preferences.

Big Red Machine

And I came to opposite conclusions in a similarly strict comparison :D
The wider dispersion of the ST tweeter made for a more realistic and enjoyable soundstage (which I value more than bass). It all comes down to individual preferences.

So true on personal preferences.  I'm tempted more than ever to drag the ST's into my 2 channel room and crank them up.

Nuance

So true on personal preferences.  I'm tempted more than ever to drag the ST's into my 2 channel room and crank them up.

What's stopping you? :D

Big Red Machine


Nuance


Big Red Machine

Okay, I did the swap.  The ST's will go back in the HT soon.  They are surely in a different league wrt the HT2TL's.  There is a veil over the music and instruments like tom toms and timbalis don't have the punch and snap of real life.

I'd say as a very smooth speaker the domed tweeter ST's excel, but I want detail and all of it as put down on the recording and the ST's don't give me that in my 2 channel set up.

Imagining is the same consistency as all of the Salk speakers and the soundstage depth is the same as the HT2TL's.  But the delicacy of voices is rounded over on the edges as compared to the ribbon tweeters (LCY) I have on the HT2's.


Bass is very good and punchy.  I'm excersising them right now on Bad Man - Government Mule and they are punching pretty good.  Hopefully the woofs will remain intact. :o

So I will play with this and experience the HT2's in the HT for a movie later to continue the fun.  I consider the HT2's and up overkill in the HT scenario but of course for those with dual purpose rooms it makes sense.  I notice the highs of the ST's to a large extent in the HT environment so it will be intersting to see what the HT2's do for me there.  I'm not going to recalibrate for the HT2's though.

Catch you later.

Saturn94

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1123
Okay, I did the swap.  The ST's will go back in the HT soon.  They are surely in a different league wrt the HT2TL's.  There is a veil over the music and instruments like tom toms and timbalis don't have the punch and snap of real life.

I'd say as a very smooth speaker the domed tweeter ST's excel, but I want detail and all of it as put down on the recording and the ST's don't give me that in my 2 channel set up.

Imagining is the same consistency as all of the Salk speakers and the soundstage depth is the same as the HT2TL's.  But the delicacy of voices is rounded over on the edges as compared to the ribbon tweeters (LCY) I have on the HT2's.


Bass is very good and punchy.  I'm excersising them right now on Bad Man - Government Mule and they are punching pretty good.  Hopefully the woofs will remain intact. :o

So I will play with this and experience the HT2's in the HT for a movie later to continue the fun.  I consider the HT2's and up overkill in the HT scenario but of course for those with dual purpose rooms it makes sense.  I notice the highs of the ST's to a large extent in the HT environment so it will be intersting to see what the HT2's do for me there.  I'm not going to recalibrate for the HT2's though.

Catch you later.

Thanks for posting the comparision.

I wonder how this would have played out if you were comparing the HT2-TL with a SongTower with the RAAL tweeter option?

Hopefully on my next visit to Dennis's I can compare the  HT2-TL with the ST/RAAL.

On my last visit to Dennis's, I did get to hear a single ST/Dome against an HT2-TL.  My initial reaction was of surprise at how alike they sounded.  After a little more listening, the ST seem to have a bit more "zip" to the sound (especially noticeable on the acoustic guitar music we were playing) than the HT2-TL.  In direct comparision, at least to my ears, the ST made the stroke of the guitar pick against the strings sound a little exaggerated and the HT2-TL sounded more natural.

It's interesting what you hear when doing direct/instant comparisons that you don't notice when auditions are separated by place and time.  Later that day I heard a pair of ST/Domes at another owner's house and I really didn't notice the exaggerated "zip".  They just sounded great.  The same was true when comparing my ADS L1290s instantly against the Salks as opposed to listening to my ADS later at home.  In direct comparison, the ADS sounded a bit nasal and brighter and the Salk more natural, but when I returned home I didn't really notice the nasal/brighter quality of my ADS.  I guess if I had the Salks at home to compare I would notice it more.

 

Nuance

Thanks for posting the comparision.

I wonder how this would have played out if you were comparing the HT2-TL with a SongTower with the RAAL tweeter option?

Dito, or perhaps the LCY tweeter, as an apples to apples comparo. 

jw87c

I remember somebody mentioned that ST with dome tweeter is like watching a view behind glass, and ST with ribbon tweeter is like having the glass removed. That's exactly what I felt when listening to the ST and HT2-TL side by side.

Okay, I did the swap.  The ST's will go back in the HT soon.  They are surely in a different league wrt the HT2TL's.  There is a veil over the music and instruments like tom toms and timbalis don't have the punch and snap of real life.

Big Red Machine

Definitely would improve the odds with a ribbon tweeter.  Let that be a lesson to all you out there!  ha  I most definitely prefer ribbons and it should make the veil go away.  The little brother wants some respect!

Now to haul the HT2's back into the room.  argh

Kinger

Interesting comparisons all and thanks to the posters who are making them.

When I ordered my ST's early this year I pained over going with the ribbon vs. the dome, but in the end I figured it probably would be worth the extra scratch as I planned on holding onto them for quite a while and I didn't want to be second guessing myself over the purchase.

What I'd really like to do sometime is try a set of HT1-TL's vs the ST/RT's.  I'm not a bass freak, but I do tend to wonder what I might be missing in a speaker that could play down another 10hz or so while still maintaining that awesome Salk midrange and I really don't want to try integrating a subwoofer into my listening room.

Big Red Machine

FYI, Outlaw is having a sale with free shipping on subs right now.  How would I know this? 8)

cacophony777

I remember somebody mentioned that ST with dome tweeter is like watching a view behind glass, and ST with ribbon tweeter is like having the glass removed. That's exactly what I felt when listening to the ST and HT2-TL side by side.

No, I think you're confusing the comparison. The quote was related to the Monitor Audio RS6 vs the Songtowers (Nuance said it in one of my threads). Having gone from the RS6 to Songtowers I totally agree too. The Songtowers are a very revealing speaker. Personally I was not able to pinpoint a difference when comparing the Songtower RT to the Songtower dome.

I found the HT2-TL to be a very different speaker than the Songtower, but I certainly didn't find it to be more revealing. I actually prefer the sound of the Songtower for my music (mostly classical and jazz); it sounds a bit more organic and natural to me. I can see why others might prefer the HT2-TL though.

jw87c

Actually I was quoting a different thread (also from Nuance) , which is a comparison between the dome tweeter and the ribbon tweeter

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14828784#post14828784

Looks like Nuance likes to use the glass pane analogy :wink:. Indeed I found the analogy quite accurate when listening to the dome and ribbon side by side  :thumb:.


No, I think you're confusing the comparison. The quote was related to the Monitor Audio RS6 vs the Songtowers (Nuance said it in one of my threads). Having gone from the RS6 to Songtowers I totally agree too. The Songtowers are a very revealing speaker. Personally I was not able to pinpoint a difference when comparing the Songtower RT to the Songtower dome.

Nuance

Actually I was quoting a different thread (also from Nuance) , which is a comparison between the dome tweeter and the ribbon tweeter

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14828784#post14828784

Looks like Nuance likes to use the glass pane analogy :wink:. Indeed I found the analogy quite accurate when listening to the dome and ribbon side by side  :thumb:.



Guilty as charged.  :oops:

As I stated in the linked thread above, the dome on the SongTower is quite amazing; perhaps the best non-metal dome I've heard.  But the ribbon tweeter is a step up, and I won't hesitate to say that.

For what it's worth, I'm just one person, so please give the two a listen for yourselves and decide which one you prefer.  If you prefer the dome, it shouldn't matter how many people say they like the ribbons better; your opinion is the only one that matters when it comes to your hearing.  :wink: