[Tyson]

Uhm, because the CNET people should't be reviewing audio equipment  Seriously, I've heard the unit drive my 5 speaker HT setup (all Axiom Speakers) to VERY loud levels, and then drive my RM40's to even louder levels.  Realistically the Panny is probabaly more accurately rated at 75-80 Watts with low distortion.  

Also, if the review at CNET says that a stock panny sounded "mellow", then the dude can't hear, period.  The stock pany is not mellow, not in any sense.  I think he looked at how tiny the Panny was and then "heard" what he expected to hear (ie, a small sound to match the small size).  IMO, dynamics is one of the strongest aspects of the Panny's sound, even at very loud volumes.  I'm not sure what Steve Guttenberg was hearing, but it sure ain't what I heard (and about 7 other very experienced audiophiles also heard).  Granted, the panny we were listening to wasn't exactly "stock"

[Jay S]

Tyson, thanks for posting your comments.  The modded Panny is a very impressive performer!  

If I understand the test correctly, one difference btw the AVA and the Panny is the fact that a Mensa DI/O was used with the AVA and the internal D/A converter of the Panny was used when the Panny was being used.  

Any ideas of how to get a bit more warmth to the sound of the Panny for those of us who do not have adjustable speakers?

[SteveSatch]

As I look for a place that has still has the xr-45 and most likely wait for the xr-70, I am stil wondering if this is the right receiver for me.  I was hoping I could get away with just a power cord mod.  I'm really unsure this is a good match for my 5 nOrh 4.0 ceramic speakers because of the high sub x-over.  People are saying the sound is not good unless you run the front speakers as large and I don't know what that would sound like with the little nOrh 4.0.

[azryan]

"-And once out of 6 months I've heard the fan come on, and it wasn't quiet either it stayed on for about 5sec and that was it, and at the time the unit was barely audible.-"

I can't tell what you're saying? It wasn't quiet and the unit was barely audible?

Do you mean your audio was barely audible and when you heard the fan for 5 sec. it wasn't quiet?

IMO the fan is very quiet. My PS2 with it's tiny Pannie-sized fan is WAAAY louder and would be a massive flaw in the Pannie if it was as loud.

My question is not if the fan is audible. It's really asking if it really NEVER comes on for Wayne's Pannie (or yours?)... or because it's such a quiet fan that no one 'notices' that it comes on?

I find I can't ever hear the fan, BUT it does come on here and there all the time 'cuz I've put my hand behind the Pannie and checked.

The only time really I heard it when listening to ANYTHING was during that Chinese Drum track because it's so quickly drawing lots of power with the drum THWACK! right to quiet decay so I catch the fan just stopping (a second of two after the drum THWACK!).

Wayne's saying it 'never' comes on and I don't why or how that's possible when they were clearly pushing it harder than I do.

I was just listening to the 'Whale Rider' soundtrack (great movie and cool trippy soundtrack BTW) and it's at -20db ('cuz I'm in the other room. -20db is REALLY loud on my Alphas).

I went in the room and put my hand behind the Pannie and the fan was running.

You couldn't HEAR the fan at all AND the unit was running nice and cool so I have no prob. with how my fan is working (that's what it's there for right?).

I just don't get why it doesn't work at all on Wayne's 45 and why it seems to not need to work either?

I just keep guessing it's running here and there on Wanye's and no one ever heard it -which I could 100% believe, but if Wayne's sure that's not the case, then I'm totally confused about what's going on.

Why not just cut out the fan if it doesn't even come on and doesn't need to?

[Wayne1]

The ONLY time the fan has come on in my systems is when it is hooked up to load resistors and I am running the FryKleaner signal into it. I measure a average 4 volt AC output into 8 ohms. The 50 watt resistors I used for the surround channels are too hot to touch. The 250 watt resistors are fairly warm.

The fan is quieter than the stock fan in my QSC power amp but it is audible.

I do not know why it comes on in your system and not in the systems I have tried the Panasonic with. The fact that it DOES come on in your system is reason enough to leave the fan circuit intact.

[Zoe]

Did the analogue section get put through its paces at this listening session? If not, how is it sounding?

[ABEX]

CNET like CONsumer Reports should not be relied upon for certain reports. Maybe any reports!

I found their report on the Panny unit a joke as an example,but people will buy into it just like they buy into alot of mags that have great followings.

JMO

[Wayne1]

The analog section was not used at Tyson's as he only uses Redbook CDs for source material.

The last time I listened to it in my office system, I did feel that with the latest power supply mods, the analog was sounding pretty good. Direct digital still sounds better but it is not as far apart.

BTW, the modded unit we listened to at Tyson's was a customer unit that had maybe 50 hours total burn-in on it.

[bubba966]

I do not know why it comes on in your system and not in the systems I have tried the Panasonic with. The fact that it DOES come on in your system is reason enough to leave the fan circuit intact.

What are the room temps?

Looking at national temps, it looks like the it might be about 20 degrees colder outside where Wayne is than it is where azryan is.

So maybe that difference in outside temp is enough to make the indoor temps different enough to engage the fan in azryan's place?

[PeteG]

I can't tell what you're saying? It wasn't quiet and the unit was barely audible?

I sit 6" away from the panny that's why I heard the fan so loud, and the speaker volume was barely audible, it wasn't turned way up when the fan came on.

I find I can't ever hear the fan, BUT it does come on here and there all the time 'cuz I've put my hand behind the Pannie and checked.

What I don't understand, If you have to put your hand on the fan to see if it's on why are you concerned, it seems to be doing it's job when hot.

[sunshinedawg]

What are the room temps?

Looking at national temps, it looks like the it might be about 20 degrees colder outside where Wayne is than it is where azryan is.

So maybe that difference in outside temp is enough to make the indoor temps different enough to engage the fan in azryan's place?

I think what is really important is the altitude.  We are a mile high here in the Denver metro area.  For example, I have to run my panny proj fan at high speed all the time.  I know that projs get very hot, but I've got to think that the 45 fan would come on even more at altitude(air is thinner, and therefore need to move more of it to get the same cooling as compared to someone at sea level).  It leads me to believe there is something else in the equation that is causing the heat issue.

[mgalusha]

I'm way late to the party this time but I'll throw in a few additional comments although for the most part it's all been covered.

1) The cool Audcom tube preamp was simply gorgeous IMO and appears to have real potential with some tweaking. As Wayne mentioned it was a little soft in the bass and perhaps a bit rolled off on the top end but it certainly wasn't bad.

2) The modded M-Audio DAC was very nice in comparison to the MENSA level DI/O. The DI/O can be a bit too agressive and a little strident in the midrange and the M-Audio was smoother in this area but not lacking in detail. Interestingly they both use the same D/A chip but obviously the implementation is different. Wayne indicated the M-Audio doesn't seem to as finicky as the DI/O about digital lock.

3) The modded Panny was of course the center attraction. This was my third time hearing it and as before it sounded quite good, very detailed and dynamic with powerful and tight bass. I thought it was smoother than Tyson's AVA gear which sounds pretty damn good. The only thing I have a slight problem with is a lack of the harmonic richness that tubes can provide. Doubtless the Panny is more accurate and perhaps truthful but I like the sound of tube harmonics even if this is euphonic and caused by the 2nd harmonic distortion that much tube gear produces. Assuming I can find one, I will pick up a '45 and have it modded for my home theater system. I still enjoy my tubes and vinyl too much to use this as my primary system but I think for many people's needs this will be a great way to go.

A friend brought by a copy of the Master of Chineese Percussion today and holy crap, that is one scary recording when cranked up. Things were rattling all over the house. I think my subs were happy to get a workout.

Mike G.

[Mathew_M]

Wayne,

Are you planning on being an Audcom dealer?  I was checking out their site and found the AP-900A to my liking.  It outputs 70 watts using el34 tubes.  Should sound excellent with the 626R's.  All it needs is a phono section.

[vpolineni]

mathew,
  audcom products are sold through sekei which is run by andrew aird... he's posted here about his company in the market square... more info can be seen at www.sekei.com

[Wayne1]

Matthew,

I am not going to be a dealer for Audcom, but Andrew has expressed an interest in having me look at some of the gear he is bringing in from China with an eye towards modding it. The AP-120 is the first product he has sent my way. I wanted the DAM to see it and listen to it stock and then again after I mod it to get their impressions.

Mike pretty much sums up my thoughts on the SA-XR45. I do feel it is VERY accurate to what is fed into it from a digital source. It will be used in my HT system. This will eliminate a lot of heavy metal boxes and expensive interconnects. The analog section is sounding more than good enough for use in that system. For my office system, I will still keep my analog source (Teres 255) with Cornet preamp (with tubes that cost more than the stock Panny). The Audcom will find a home there for a while as mods are being developed for it. I will be using the Radii mono blocks.

If you can put up with the constant maintenance of tube amps, and the heat, and the cost, I think they give a very special sound when used with vinyl. If you are using Redbook CDs and/or DVD as your main source, The modded SA-XR45 is a GREAT value.

BTW the nominal ambient temp. in my office is 70 F. Altitude is 5300 ft above sea level. Humidity varies between 15 and 40%.

[Marbles]

Let me know when they come out with a 7 channel receiver that offers all that.

Really the only thing I use my HT for is digital sources so it would be fine with me to sell off some amps, IC's and pre/pro and still have the same level of sound.

[zybar]

Wayne,

Since the Panny doesn't have enough juice to run the 40's unless it is in Party mode, is it possible to use two Panny's in a HT setup?

One Panny would handle bi-amping the 40's + center and the other could handle the surrounds?

This would of course only work if your source could output two data streams at once.

Just a thought.

GW

[Wayne1]

George,

The SA-XR45 does have an optical digital output. You could run a digital signal into one Panny and take an optical output from there to another SA-XR45. This would ONLY work on the digital inputs. For analog inputs, you would have to use either tape out or the second audio out jacks.

I have no idea how this would work with the HT settings on the second receiver.

[Marbles]

Does the 45 have pre-outs to use other amps?

[sunshinedawg]

One Panny would handle bi-amping the 40's + center and the other could handle the surrounds?

GW

I'm not sure you could do it like that in party mode cause it sends the same signal to all speakers.  I think you would have to use the 1st panny to do the center, surrounds and half of the 40s and use the second(via the optical out into the 2nd panny) to do the other half of the 40s.  I'm not sure if that would cause delay issues or not.

Maybe you could have one do the center, sub and surrounds and the other do the 40s?