[TRADERXFAN]

I am running a mac mini as transport to a tranquility dac...
However, the mini I have is a first generation. I have been thinking about upgrading based on suggestions that there are improvements to sound quality from better OS etc.  I am wondering if NOW is the time since they are going away from the brick to an internal power supply. And by most accounts the power supply of the audio equipment can be a considerable weak link. I see there are some alternatives being offered for power supplies now, but the new 2010 won't be able to take advantage of them.

Anyone been able to compare new mac minis to older ones?
Is there really a benefit?

-Tony

[low.pfile]

A little discussion here regarding internal PS: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=82580.0

Don't think any comparison has been made regarding sound quality differences based on PS alone

The beginning of a discussion on 64bit of the processor/OS here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=82154.msg808117;topicseen#new

[silver_strings]

I would prefer the older mini's because you can us a linear power supply with them, I use a linear PS on my macbook pro and I'm very happy with the improvement it made, the internal PS on the new Minis is the switching kind which would be quite noisy.

[kenreau]

The new mac mini has been out for a while now so I thought I would resurrect this thread to see if anyone has read reports or has direct knowledge of any objective & tangible performance improvements (utlized as a music server) with the new 2010 mac mini over 2008/2009 models with external power supply.   

Thanks
Kenreau

[ted_b]

The new mac mini has been out for a while now so I thought I would resurrect this thread to see if anyone has read reports or has direct knowledge of any objective & tangible performance improvements (utlized as a music server) with the new 2010 mac mini over 2008/2009 models with external power supply.   

Thanks
Kenreau

Kenreau,
Eric and the guys over on the Tranquility DAC thread are all gaga about the 2010 Mini, saying stock 2010 beats ultra-modded 2008/2009...and that there a couple folks doing software tweaks to the 2010 that make it a world beater.  Dunno.

[kenreau]

Kenreau,
Eric and the guys over on the Tranquility DAC thread are all gaga about the 2010 Mini, saying stock 2010 beats ultra-modded 2008/2009...and that there a couple folks doing software tweaks to the 2010 that make it a world beater.  Dunno.

Yep, I read those this morning and thought I would ask here on the Apple Core for any concurrency before I start shopping for a 2010 mac mini.  I'm certainly not opposed to doing it as I have yet to buy an upgraded power supply brick and the two scenarios may net out to the same $ cost.  I just want to do one of the scenarios once and be done with it. 

Are you still content with the mac book?

Thanks
Ken

[Wayne1]

FWIW, The 2010 Mac Mini can be modded to use an external linear power supply.

The Apple warranty would be voided by the mod.

You can get the benefits from the 2010 version and still get even better sound with a linear PS.

You would have to decide if it would be worth the voided warranty and extra expense of the mod and linear PS.

[dmccombs]

I have compared a Early 2009 MacMini with a few basic software tweaks with a 2010 MacMini with the exact same setup.

The new 2010 MacMini sounded way better and had a lot less noise.  I know this is counter-intuitive because of the  internal vs. external power brick, but the 2010 model was clearly better.  I had several Audio friends hear the A/B comparison.  All agreed the 2010 model was better.

A friend of mine had the Early 2009 model and sold it (to me), so he could get the 2010 model.  He has no regrets.  He thinks going with the 2010 model is a no-brainer.  Note that we can't speak about the 2009 MacMini with custom/linear PS solution vs. the 2010 model...

Of course, the software mods I have done, work well on both models so I think that is a non-issue.  They work on any Mini that runs OSX 10.6

[ted_b]

Darell,
Do your mods work on a Macbook 4.1 (last white version, 2.4Ghz)?  I have an SSD'd 4GB Macbook (Gordon Rankins previous one) that I use for my music server.  I haven't a/b'd to a new or older Mac Mini.

[dmccombs]

Darell,
Do your mods work on a Macbook 4.1 (last white version, 2.4Ghz)?  I have an SSD'd 4GB Macbook (Gordon Rankins previous one) that I use for my music server.  I haven't a/b'd to a new or older Mac Mini.

Ted,

   Most of the software mods work on most of the Macs and OS.  A couple of the mods are OS related.  If your Macbook is running OSX 10.5 or 10.6 they will work fine.

Darrell

[ted_b]

Darrell, Thanks, yes I use OSX 10.6.  Do you think a new 2010 Mac Mini will be a big sonic upgrade from a SSD'd Macbook?  I've done the typical tweak stuff, turned off non-music apps, renice'd core audio, Amarra and/or Pure Music and have my DAC and external music drive on different buses (firewire vs USB).

[kenreau]

I have compared a Early 2009 MacMini with a few basic software tweaks with a 2010 MacMini with the exact same setup.

The new 2010 MacMini sounded way better and had a lot less noise.  I know this is counter-intuitive because of the  internal vs. external power brick, but the 2010 model was clearly better.  I had several Audio friends hear the A/B comparison.  All agreed the 2010 model was better.

A friend of mine had the Early 2009 model and sold it (to me), so he could get the 2010 model.  He has no regrets.  He thinks going with the 2010 model is a no-brainer.  Note that we can't speak about the 2009 MacMini with custom/linear PS solution vs. the 2010 model...

Of course, the software mods I have done, work well on both models so I think that is a non-issue.  They work on any Mini that runs OSX 10.6

Thanks Darrell, that sounds very tangible to me.  Do you want to buy another 2009 mac mini  ?

I look forward to learning more about this and your set-up optimization work. 

Thanks
Kenreau

[kenreau]

FWIW, The 2010 Mac Mini can be modded to use an external linear power supply.

The Apple warranty would be voided by the mod.

You can get the benefits from the 2010 version and still get even better sound with a linear PS.

You would have to decide if it would be worth the voided warranty and extra expense of the mod and linear PS.

Thanks Wayne.  I was wondering about that.  I would imagine there is significant room for improvement, regulation and filtering.  Have you had any 2010 units in for the mod yet?

Kenreau

[dmccombs]

Darrell, Thanks, yes I use OSX 10.6.  Do you think a new 2010 Mac Mini will be a big sonic upgrade from a SSD'd Macbook?  I've done the typical tweak stuff, turned off non-music apps, renice'd core audio, Amarra and/or Pure Music and have my DAC and external music drive on different buses (firewire vs USB).

Ted,

   It sounds like you have done a good job with the tweaks on the MacBook.  I bet it sounds noticeably better with the tweaks in place.  Isn't amazing what each tweak can do to the sound?  Some are subtle.  Some are very noticeable.  Some are comparable to a hardware upgrade.  Combined, they make a huge impact.

   We've spent a lot of time learning about the MacMini setup starting with the typical tweaks, sharing tips with other MacMini freaks, and then we came up with a huge one that you wont read about on this site or the other Computer Audio forums.  We A/B tested each tweak before making them part of our process.  Combined they exceed a good hardware (amp, preamp, DAC) upgrade.

   I haven't run a Macbook as a music server, but I talked with Eric at db Audio Labs.  We had a lengthy discuss about this very issue.  I originally thought that Laptop would have huge advantage since is is battery powered.  He filled me in on some of the downsides of a laptop and he had actually done test comparing the Macbook and MacMini.  I ended up buying the MacMini.

  db Audio labs knows a lot about the Mac Mini setup and is wicked smart about power, hardware, DACs.  I suggest you talk/write Eric at db Audio LAbs for more info on the Macbook/MacMini comparison.  I would hate to misquote him here. 

  If short, if you have a nice Audio system, it may be worth upgrading to the MacMini.  If $$$ are short, then maybe pursue more mods to the current Macbook.
   

[gstraley]

Hi dmccombs,
   I am curious with your comparison between the '09 and '10 models. The '10 version uses the 64 bit technology. The '09 uses the 32 bit but can be programed to use the 64 bit technology. In your comparison did you listen to the '09 in 32 bit or 64?
   The reason that I ask is because I heard a '09 being powered by the Bolder Cable power supply. The improvement in a highly resolving system was quite obvious. It went from sounding harsh and digital to relaxed and musical. When we started up the mini in 64 bit it even sounded better yet.
   I would really like to see if anyone can compare an '09 with the Bolder power supply and running in 64 bit and compare that to the '10 mini. Both models would need to have all of the typical tweak stuff and the non music apps turned off.
   With the few comparisons that I have seen no one has talked about using the '09 in 64 bit technology. If the '10 is running in 64 bit and the '09 in 32 bit you are not exactly comparing apples to apples (no pun intended).

Thanks,

Gregg

[dmccombs]

Hi dmccombs,
   I am curious with your comparison between the '09 and '10 models. The '10 version uses the 64 bit technology. The '09 uses the 32 bit but can be programed to use the 64 bit technology. In your comparison did you listen to the '09 in 32 bit or 64?
   The reason that I ask is because I heard a '09 being powered by the Bolder Cable power supply. The improvement in a highly resolving system was quite obvious. It went from sounding harsh and digital to relaxed and musical. When we started up the mini in 64 bit it even sounded better yet.
   I would really like to see if anyone can compare an '09 with the Bolder power supply and running in 64 bit and compare that to the '10 mini. Both models would need to have all of the typical tweak stuff and the non music apps turned off.
   With the few comparisons that I have seen no one has talked about using the '09 in 64 bit technology. If the '10 is running in 64 bit and the '09 in 32 bit you are not exactly comparing apples to apples (no pun intended).

Thanks,

Gregg

Greg,

   The early 2009 model using 64bit was a fun issue to resolve.  The late 2009 model can easily be switched to 64bit.  My 2009 early model supposedly can't be run in 64bit mode, but mine does, now...   

   I am aware of the 32bit 64bit sound differences.  When I did my A/B tests, the 2009 was run in 32bit mode, but the differences far exceeded the 32bit to 64bit sound quality increase.  The power supply setup in the 2010 model was completely redone and I suspect that is the big difference in sound quality.

   Sorry, I don't have any experience with the Boulder PS.

Darrell

[guest4954]

Darrell,

Where can these software tweaks be found?

Michiel

[dmccombs]

Darrell,

Where can these software tweaks be found?

Michiel

Michiel,

   There are lots of Mac tweaks.  It really depends on how good the rest of your audio system is as to how far you want to go.  I have tried and found good results with things that most people would say "can't matter".  But as long as I hear positive audible changes, I will keep experimenting and learning.

     A partner and I are considering offering a MacMini Music Server service where we offer Turnkey Solutions and Upgrade/Tweaks for those that already have a system.  With that in mind, I don't want to publish my modification list.

    Here are some high level suggestions though.

1)  The Amarra website has some good tweaks that will apply to most music servers.
2)  If you bought a DAC or Music Server, talk with those folks.  Sometimes they have a tweak list.  If you bought a Tranquility DAC from db Audio Labs, see Eric.  He is fantastic and very knowledgeable about the MacMini setup.
3)  Websites like this have good tidbits albeit they are scattered.

Darrell

[jhm731]

Has anyone confirmed that a 2010 Mini sounds better than a 2009 Mini
using a DAC other than the Tranquility?

[dmccombs]

My friend had the early 2009 MacMini and a Cary DAC.  He drives it with the Hi-Face USB converter.  He upgraded to the 2010 MacMini and he said the difference was noticeable.

He sold me his 2009 MacMini (which I now use for non-music server things) and he says the $300 upgrade cost was well worth it.