Ok, I've caught the tube amp bug...help?

kingdeezie · « **on:** 7 Jul 2010, 12:09 pm »

So, I have been constantly reading over pretty much every audio forum I regularly visit (audiogon, audiocircle, etc, etc) that tube amplifiers are the way to go if you just want to listen to music and not worry about equipment. (What I have read, not starting a war here.)

I'm getting slightly jaded and a little tired of the rat race, and I just want to be able to sit down and actually enjoy my music.

I have been on a merry-go-round of equipment, and I feel like I am very close; something just doesn't sound "right."

Right now I have Odyssey Kismetros amplifiers, and while they are fine SS amplifiers, I think I am ready for tubes.

My speakers are GR Research LS-6s, soon to be retrofitted with custom Response Audio external crossovers. They are 91 DB/1watt/1meter and according to Danny are a benign flat 8 OHM impedance.

My room right now is smallish, 13x18x8 closed off.

The room is multi-purpose in that I use the speakers for music and HT. I want to maintain the dynamics that I have right now with the Odysseys.

What would be the opinion of those with more experience then I for a good tube amplifier in the 4-6K range?

Wattage recommendation? Etc, Etc, Etc.

As of right now the amplifier that I am crushing on the hardest is the Manley Snappers. I love the way they look, and apparently they have good bass performance for their price range, and are very dynamic and neutral.

I am greatly open to suggestions though.

I am not looking for that "tube flavor" so much as a more organic and natural sound.

rlee8394 · « **Reply #1 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 12:28 pm »

King,

Go here:

http://www.avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=250&Itemid=235&74a0ad6b5f7a1df0ef4ab98b8fffbb41=996ee92d2cc3e0632fd2e2449a1bc2ce

See the latest review in issue 104 of The Absolute Sound.

Ron

kingdeezie · « **Reply #2 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 12:37 pm »

Would that AVA amp be too much of a drop from what I have now in terms of power?

The Odyssey is somewhere between the 180-200 watt range, that AVA amp is only 30 watts. I'm not sure if 30 watts per channel would be enough power for HT use, since this is a dual purpose room.

avahifi · « **Reply #3 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 01:20 pm »

What is the efficiency and impedance of your HT speakers? In general you will find an AVA Ultravalve amp to be as powerful as a typical 100W/Ch solid state amplifier.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

arthurs · « **Reply #4 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 01:22 pm »

Chris, maybe a hybrid? I had the Moscode 401HR with your speakers and it was fantastic...gives you the control of ss with the ability to roll the tubes to your preferred flavor of lushness or clarity...KJ may still have this one for sale http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=70303.0 ...it's a terrific amp.

If you're fixated on the Manley's though, they are also very nice.

ddemeterio5 · « **Reply #5 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 01:40 pm »

Quote from: kingdeezie on 7 Jul 2010, 12:09 pm

So, I have been constantly reading over pretty much every audio forum I regularly visit (audiogon, audiocircle, etc, etc) that tube amplifiers are the way to go if you just want to listen to music and not worry about equipment. (What I have read, not starting a war here.)

I'm getting slightly jaded and a little tired of the rat race, and I just want to be able to sit down and actually enjoy my music.

I have been on a merry-go-round of equipment, and I feel like I am very close; something just doesn't sound "right."

Right now I have Odyssey Kismetros amplifiers, and while they are fine SS amplifiers, I think I am ready for tubes.

My speakers are GR Research LS-6s, soon to be retrofitted with custom Response Audio external crossovers. They are 91 DB/1watt/1meter and according to Danny are a benign flat 8 OHM impedance.

My room right now is smallish, 13x18x8 closed off.

The room is multi-purpose in that I use the speakers for music and HT. I want to maintain the dynamics that I have right now with the Odysseys.

What would be the opinion of those with more experience then I for a good tube amplifier in the 4-6K range?

Wattage recommendation? Etc, Etc, Etc.

As of right now the amplifier that I am crushing on the hardest is the Manley Snappers. I love the way they look, and apparently they have good bass performance for their price range, and are very dynamic and neutral.

I am greatly open to suggestions though.

I am not looking for that "tube flavor" so much as a more organic and natural sound.

Since you have GR Research speakers, I suggest you talk to Gary Dodd of Dodd Audio. Danny uses Dodd Audio equipment when listening to his speakers and you have a synergistic match there. You can have Gary build a customized tube, hybrid, solid state, battery powered, etc amp for you. He can also give you an insight on tube amplifiers and it might guide you in knowing what you want. I believe Gary has an LS-6 that he listens to at home.

Remember that 100w in solid state amp does not always equate to 100w of tube power.

Check out Dodd Audio: http://doddaudio.com/contactus.aspx

HAITIMAN · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 02:05 pm »

Quote from: kingdeezie on 7 Jul 2010, 12:37 pm

Would that AVA amp be too much of a drop from what I have now in terms of power?

The Odyssey is somewhere between the 180-200 watt range, that AVA amp is only 30 watts. I'm not sure if 30 watts per channel would be enough power for HT use, since this is a dual purpose room.

I have a Rogue Cronus Integrated and I like it a lot. 90 wpc should be sufficient for your speaks. Plenty of bass punch and a very well defined soundstage. Quiet too.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 02:28 pm »

Quote from: kingdeezie on 7 Jul 2010, 12:09 pm

I have been on a merry-go-round of equipment, and I feel like I am very close; something just doesn't sound "right."

Right now I have Odyssey Kismetros amplifiers, and while they are fine SS amplifiers, I think I am ready for tubes.

Been there, kingdeezie

Not to sleight Odyssey or Klaus in the least (superb value and decent guys offering excellent service should always be supported), but my Odyssey monoblocks were for sale within minutes of getting my first tube amps. This was my story: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=26640.0

If I had to do over again and wasn't as pleased as I am with the Dukane's...I'd buy Frank van Alstine's Ultravalve as rlee8394 pointed out earlier.

As you have a smallish room...you don't need uber-power and Frank's design features extreme voltage regulation so his tube amp doesn't sound flubby like many tube amps tend to. If you're power hungry for more, you can buy his inverter bridge and another Ultravalve....and still be well within your $4-6K price limits.

John

avta · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 02:42 pm »

Then there's Quicksilver amps ( http://www.quicksilveraudio.com/index.html ) I recently bought their Silver 88 Mono amps. I have Harbeth compact 7 speakers. This is my first tube amp and the sound is, to my ears, more natural and easy to listen to.

kingdeezie · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 03:04 pm »

Great replies guys!

I will look into the Van Alstine amplifiers, I am assuming the inverter bridge lets you run them monos for 60 watts per?

I already emailed Dodd to see what he is charging these days for his 120 monos. The only thing with the Dodd is that the faces are wood, which I do very much like, but my Response Audio preamp is not one of the two species that Dodd sells.

I will also look into the Quicksilver monos as well.

Any other suggestions??

adydula · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 03:21 pm »

Hello,

I just ordered a new Ultravalve amp for my 2 ch listening, with a set of SALK SongTowers. I have an Onkyo SR805 AVR with well over 100watts that have served me well and I want to try a tube amp for myself to see what all this 'sweetness' is all about. The new AVA Ultravalve had a wonderful review in The Absolute SOund Issue #204.

Should have the new toys in a few weeks, fingers crossed...
I will post my findings!

All the best
Alex

kingdeezie · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 03:30 pm »

Quote from: arthurs on 7 Jul 2010, 01:22 pm

Chris, maybe a hybrid? I had the Moscode 401HR with your speakers and it was fantastic...gives you the control of ss with the ability to roll the tubes to your preferred flavor of lushness or clarity...KJ may still have this one for sale http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=70303.0 ...it's a terrific amp.

If you're fixated on the Manley's though, they are also very nice.

I was thinking about the Moscode Art, I remembered you had one before a few years back.

I'll have to look up some more about it.

Have you ever heard any of the Manleys? The Snappers are tiny, and only 100 watts, but they are sexy IMO.

I was also debating waiting a while longer and maybe entertaining a VAC Phi 200, but at that price I could step up to the Manley Neos at 250 watts per side.

rollo · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 03:50 pm »

It appeard that Dodd has an anvantage here. He knows the speaker and can custom build an amp with synergy. AVA amps are classics, so the decision should be made after listening to both.
If you do not want tubes for any reason a Mc Intosh SS amp will do just fine. Remember not all tubed amps are lush. CJ vs Audio Research comes to mind in that respect.
My advice is to listen to as many as you can before plucking down some serious green. They all have house sounds so it is a matter of which one YOU like with your speakers. Just make sure the amp matches with the preamp. Have fun trying.

charles

kingdeezie · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 04:00 pm »

Its not so much a lush sound that I am after.

The only tube amplifier I ever heard, in a system I was unfamiliar with, had this naturalness and organic flow to it. HF extension was awesome.

This wasn't a hugely expensive system I heard it in either; I am sure it wasn't cheap, but the performance is there with the right combination.

SteveFord · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 10:54 pm »

I think you'll be very happy with something from the Manley family tree (Manley and VTL).
Every so often a real deal will come up on Audiogon but you've got to be ready to jump right away.

kingdeezie · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 11:02 pm »

I think I'm leaning towards the Manley actually.

Still waiting to hear from Dodd about his mono amplifiers to see what his prices run.

I really like the look of the Manley Snappers; there is also a dealer maybe about an hour from me as well.

I'd like to buy new if I can get some sort of deal; this will be my first tube amplifier and I'd rather have support on everything.

tgp06 · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 11:30 pm »

To respond to your previous inquiry regarding a phase inverter bridge and Ultravalve amps, yes, two Ultravalves with a phase inverter would yield about 70wpc...Frank is rather conservative with his published 30wpc. A single Ultravalve should drive a 91db/8 Ohm speaker with ease. The bass extension of this amp is remarkable for a tube amp as is the detail. Two of these should be overkill with your speakers- mine(2-U70s), bridged, drive my 84db/4-6 Ohm Salk HT3s with ease. One of the U70s will drive my 88db/4 Ohm Songtowers to levels I can't handle.

Rocket_Ronny · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 11:52 pm »

As has already been said, the Moscode would be great as well as something from Dodd. I would say get at least 70 watts on those. I am using a McAlister PP 150 -75 watts a side and it is one of the best amps I have ever heard. Clean, clear, super detailed, organic, smooth yet very fast, 3D. And it's a lot less money than the other amps.

Didn't Danny at Gr have a Dodd he was selling for a good price?

Rocket_Ronny

bunnyma357 · « **Reply #18 on:** 8 Jul 2010, 04:05 am »

A couple other things to think about, tubes put out a lot of heat, so in a small room that might factor into how big an amp to go for, or whether to look at stereo vs. monoblocks. In my 10x10x9 room I run 2 different integrated amps and the room gets stifling hot in the summer, and with the way our air conditioning runs I have to make the rest of the house into a freezer to be comfortable in the room.

Another thing is if you like to tweek a lot and are planning to do some tube rolling, having to get 12 matched tubes is a lot harder and costlier than getting a matched quad, especially if you get into NOS tubes.

Neither of these would be the deciding factor for me, but they'd definitely factor into the decision.

Jim C

S Clark · « **Reply #19 on:** 8 Jul 2010, 04:09 am »

The LS6 was designed with the amp that Danny currently has for sale, 50 wpc if I remember. However, noting that dynamics are what sets the LS series apart, I'd try to get a pair of Dodd 120's. I suspect that Gary might do a custom face plate if the color is a problem. They should run just at the edge of your budget.

The Moscode is another can't miss option, since Art has already had one paired with the LS6 and recommends the combo.