2 Amp Dilema - New Ultravalve and Existing Receiver Connectivity ??

adydula · « **on:** 27 Jun 2010, 11:26 am »

Hi,

I just ordered a new Ultravalve Amp from Frank, 4 weeks..waiting but thats not the dilemma.

I have a receiver (Onkyp 805) with 6.1 setup.
I use a pair of SalkSongTowers for 2 ch listening and use them in the HT side as well.
I have 3 sources now, a HD DVD player, movies only, Oppo BD83SE (upgraded analog) and a Squeezebox Touch.
They are all hooked to the receiver with a myraid of HMDI, optical, diigital coax and analog RCA cables.

I can do lots of easy comparisons etc.

So heres the dilemma:

Adding a second high quality amp like the ultravalve now poses the problem of how I can keep the receiver switching arrangement with all the crap and be able to use the new amp?

Let me further clarify: With a new preamp, yet to be decided..if i get one with HT bypass then this is kind of solved but only one amp is allowed to be used with 2 ch or the HT movies side.

What I would like is to have the new Ultravalve be used with 2 ch audio only and the receiver amp used for movies only...

I guess the easiest solution is to wire up some speaker cables and just manually hook the new amp to the speakers for 2 ch listening and then unhook and hoop back the cables to the receiver for movies?

I have heard using switches for 2 amps can be dangersous if your not carefull etc..

DOnt know if this makes sense, but simple things over time become a wiring nightmare...the ideas are easy to come by, the mechanical implementation in a dark room, lying on your side with a flashilight and bifocals to see is something else!!

Hahahah

LOL

ANy ideas, comments?

ALex

gjs_cds · « **Reply #1 on:** 27 Jun 2010, 11:38 am »

I tried integrating my HT and HiFi systems for a while. It was always a compromise, and ended up being a pain in the butt...

So I just went to completely dedicated systems... Haven't looked back since.

adydula · « **Reply #2 on:** 27 Jun 2010, 12:20 pm »

Yes I think thats the simple and most elegant solution!!

Just need a preamp and a set of speaker cables...

Now what preamp??

Alex

Art_Chicago · « **Reply #3 on:** 27 Jun 2010, 12:48 pm »

Hi, Alex!

what preamp? easy question, AVA has them all- ss, tube and the latest hybrid Vision. I love my all tube T8+. You can also get a Vision DAC with 4 inputs to simplify a few things. It will add clarity to the sound.
What are your surround speakers and the sub? I am enjoying HT just using ST and Frank's amps. You can hook a sub to any of AVA preamp and see if you like 2.1 setup. You might and then the problem solved!

simon wagstaff · « **Reply #4 on:** 27 Jun 2010, 02:21 pm »

I don't really see a problem here, not at all. I have the same set up, sort of. I have a Pioneer TSX 59i receiver and DVD player connected via firewire. I just use the pre-outs for front left and right and have my U70 hooked up to them, then to the speakers. I use the amp for both 2-channel and surround. the Pioneer has automated microphone set up so the levels match up all around.

I have no issues and works great for both 2-channel and movies.

adydula · « **Reply #5 on:** 27 Jun 2010, 02:38 pm »

Hi Simon,

Cool, I was thinking using the Ultravalve with only 35 watts would not be enough for watching movies....

Alex

srb · « **Reply #6 on:** 27 Jun 2010, 02:50 pm »

Quote from: adydula on 27 Jun 2010, 02:38 pm

Cool, I was thinking using the Ultravalve with only 35 watts would not be enough for watching movies....

There are a number of people using robust 35 watt tube amplifiers for HT. Depending on the amplifier and the speaker load synergy, the "tube watts" seem to go a little farther than the "solid state watts" of medium power amplifiers, perhaps because of soft clipping of tubes.

And because you are using a subwoofer, the load on the amplifier is less. You might find the Ultravalve outperforming the Onkyo. Try it and let us know your results.

Steve

adydula · « **Reply #7 on:** 27 Jun 2010, 02:58 pm »

Ok I am starting to feel a little less concerned!!

Now the 64 million dollar question which preamp, the low cost solution is a Parasound 2100 or a Emotiva UPS1.

I dont know if franks Insight series have the HT bypass stuff?

The speakers will be Salk SongTowers.

Alex

srb · « **Reply #8 on:** 27 Jun 2010, 03:09 pm »

Quote from: adydula on 27 Jun 2010, 02:58 pm

Now the 64 million dollar question which preamp, the low cost solution is a Parasound 2100 or a Emotiva UPS1.

For the low cost solution between those two, I would say the Parasound 2100. I have been doing some research on that model as well, and found out that Richard Schram of Parasound had said the sound quality is a lot closer to the that of the Halo P7 than the price would indicate. There are a number of very satisfied users of the 2100 here on AudioCircle.

I also read on another forum that a few people replaced the Emotiva USP-1 with the Parasound 2100.

AVA doesn't have a specific HT bypass input, but they use an external processor loop input and output in conjunction with setting the volume control to a pre-calibrated position.

Steve

avahifi · « **Reply #9 on:** 27 Jun 2010, 03:29 pm »

Of course you can simply use a tape in and tape out if you want to bypass an AVA preamp line section completely. The tape outputs come out ahead of the line section and volume and balance controls.

For best results consider a Vision DAC/Preamp combo unit. Bring the digital out from your DVD player into the Vision for both music and movies and use it to drive the front speakers with the Ultravalve amp.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

srb · « **Reply #10 on:** 27 Jun 2010, 03:38 pm »

Quote from: avahifi on 27 Jun 2010, 03:29 pm

Bring the digital out from your DVD player into the Vision for both music and movies and use it to drive the front speakers with the Ultravalve amp.

Frank,

The best of both worlds would be to send one digital out from the DVD player to the Vision DAC and another to the surround receiver to have the option to choose between the super pure two channel sound and 5.1 surround sound.

But I'm thinking that this would not be possible without going into the DVD player setup and choosing PCM 2 channel output or 5.1 output. In other words, the Wolfson DAC (or most any stand-alone 2 channel DAC) won't accept a Dolby Digital or DTS signal and convert it to two channel, correct?

Steve

mathgeek97 · « **Reply #11 on:** 27 Jun 2010, 04:30 pm »

What Frank said, mostly. I'd consider the Vision EC DAC -> Insight preamp. That'll handle 2 coax and 2 optical digital inputs. Not as elegant as the combo unit, but more versatile, and you do have a nice assortment of digital sources.

gjs_cds · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 Jun 2010, 05:08 pm »

Quote from: simon wagstaff on 27 Jun 2010, 02:21 pm

I don't really see a problem here, not at all. I have the same set up, sort of. I have a Pioneer TSX 59i receiver and DVD player connected via firewire. I just use the pre-outs for front left and right and have my U70 hooked up to them, then to the speakers.

Because there's a HUGE compromise in the pre-amp. The difference will be startleling...

adydula · « **Reply #13 on:** 27 Jun 2010, 07:42 pm »

Thanks for the input, I need a manual or a picture of the back panel of the AVA gear.

Frank do you have a manual for the DAC/Preamp combo?

I am concerned how the decode for the movie stuff happens..you know all the 5.2 codecs like HD Master etc..when watching a movie etc.

MY brain id fried on all the combos!! LOL

If see a schematic or wiring diagram it will help to sort this our for me.

In my first idea taking the analog outs from the OPPO BD 83 SE i have I would use the Oppos Sabre Dacs into the preamp with a HT bypass and the rest of the surrounds go to the receiver via HDMI. The L and R fronts pre-outs either from the receiver or the preamp go to the new amp from Frank.

So I think when watching movies all channels of sound are decoded in the recevier with only the 2 front L/R speakers going thru the new amp with the decoding applied.

The Dac/Preamp combo accepte digital coax, this is the 5.1 audio. so does the preamp in the AVA dac/pre combo have 5.1 outs as well???

Thanks
Alex

gjs_cds · « **Reply #14 on:** 27 Jun 2010, 09:41 pm »

Buy one of Frank's used pre-amps. Problem solved.

adydula · « **Reply #15 on:** 29 Jun 2010, 01:49 am »

Gjs_cds..

Frank has a Pas 4i that he will upgrade and I am torn between it and I know he is recommending the new Vision Dac Preamp Combo, but its just out of the budget right now.

The T8 + Preamp really intrigues me, having an all tube setup...but its still on the over the $1K point.

The good news is my wonderful wife told me to get the Ultravalve and I have the blessings to get a preamp but its got to be no more than 600-800 bucks for now.

I can always sell and upgrade etc...

I am very happy to be getting this amp....seeing how 2 months ago I got layed off at work!

Thankfully I found employment but a very much reduced salary..so the budget is just a wee bit tight...but still very thankful to be able to still play!!

Life at 61+

BIG SMILE!
Alex

gjs_cds · « **Reply #16 on:** 29 Jun 2010, 02:27 am »

I'd jump on the upgraded Pas 4i.... It has REALLY crossed my own mind fir my secondary system... For that price? Can't beat it. May not be the latest and greatest--but it's wicked good...

mchuckp · « **Reply #17 on:** 29 Jun 2010, 02:40 am »

Quote from: adydula on 27 Jun 2010, 07:42 pm

Thanks for the input, I need a manual or a picture of the back panel of the AVA gear.

Frank do you have a manual for the DAC/Preamp combo?

I am concerned how the decode for the movie stuff happens..you know all the 5.2 codecs like HD Master etc..when watching a movie etc.

MY brain id fried on all the combos!! LOL

If see a schematic or wiring diagram it will help to sort this our for me.

In my first idea taking the analog outs from the OPPO BD 83 SE i have I would use the Oppos Sabre Dacs into the preamp with a HT bypass and the rest of the surrounds go to the receiver via HDMI. The L and R fronts pre-outs either from the receiver or the preamp go to the new amp from Frank.

So I think when watching movies all channels of sound are decoded in the recevier with only the 2 front L/R speakers going thru the new amp with the decoding applied.

The Dac/Preamp combo accepte digital coax, this is the 5.1 audio. so does the preamp in the AVA dac/pre combo have 5.1 outs as well???

Thanks
Alex

If you don't go the dedicated DAC route, I would take the stereo analogs out of your Oppo directly to the preamp and then take HDMI (or analog multichannel) to your receiver. All outputs on the Oppo are active simultaneously. So keep multichannel and stereo as two separate entities since the Oppo has a dedicated stereo output using the Sabre DACs. I have the Oppo SE. Very nice player.

I also have the Ultravalve and T8+ and tremendously like both and think they make a great combo. I used to own an Emotiva USP-1 and it is very nice for the money but I found the T8+ quite an upgrade. In my system, I would say it is the 3rd biggest difference I have made in my set up behind buying my SongTowers and adding room treatments. It is out of your budget though. How about not going the tube route and just getting an Insight preamp?

I hear you with your pain of trying to make an all in one room. I tried this for a while but I just don't think receivers cut the mustard for audio. I've opted to ditch surround sound for true 2-channel. I've considered adding a sub again someday just for movies but I'm in no hurry. For music, I hate trying to incorporate a sub. It sounds great for one song and then the next it is too much, then not enough. I like my music perfect.

Good luck.

adydula · « **Reply #18 on:** 29 Jun 2010, 03:30 am »

mchcukp,

Cool, I actually have the analog outs from my bd83se going to the rcvr on its cd inputs and the hdmi to the receiver for surround and get the master HD and other codecs etc.
I also have the multichannel hooked up the cables and the way i assign the stuff in the remote for the onkyo i can compare the cd oppo dacs to the dacs in the rcvr and even chose only the LR fronts from the multichannel to hear these dacs in the oppo as well.

I guess the insignt would not be all that bad of a choice...was thinking the same thoughts here as well.

I think the analog from the oppo is very nice indeed...i often listen to the analog out instead of the hdmi etc, the L/R from the multichannel is also nice but the sub cuts in and yes on some stuff its ok and other its crap...too much etc.

I too like my music straight up as well!!

Ok off to beddie by!
Alex

mchuckp · « **Reply #19 on:** 29 Jun 2010, 03:42 am »

Not you think you can stand to not have a remote, this one has been hanging around for a while. A remote is a must for me.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=79214.0