[adydula]

Cool and thanks I sent Lee a PM, maybe this is finally it!
Thanks Much!
Alex

No remote??? Oh well...

[mchuckp]

Cool and thanks I sent Lee a PM, maybe this is finally it!
Thanks Much!
Alex

No remote??? Oh well...

Frank can add one for you down the road if it bugs you.  Think it is around $300.  I'm guessing this is a big reason he has had a hard time selling this preamp.  Seems crazy that there was no interest.  Congrats!

Let us know how the attempt to run an AVA preamp in a HT bypass goes.  My head still hasn't quite figured out how it works.  Who knows, maybe you'll just hook the sub up to the preamp and get rid of the receiver. 

BTW, you are gonna love the Insight and Ultravalve combo.  Plus glowing tubes are cool. 

[adydula]

Yes the remote volume is a distractor...and its a small non 19" rack mount form factor.
So I can understand that...to me no big deal.

Way back when 1988 or so I had a Denon DCD3300 CD deck direct connected to a PS Audio 200C, and used the level pot on the Denon to adjust the drive to the amp and am used to getting up to adjust etc...

But we are certaintly spoiled etc...

Waiting on a reply from this person.

Thanks Again!
Alex

[adydula]

Ok we finally settled on a Insight SL + with remote volume coupled with the new Ultravalve Amp.

I want to hook this into my HT Onkyo SR805 setup. I know this preamp doesnt have the HT bypass mode switch like other pre's but Frank tells me to use the tape inputs etc ..

So what I am looking for is a diagram that will make it clear to me how to cable this all up.

Anyone have any ideas here?

Thanks
Alex

[vintagebob]

Have you seen this thread?  It describes two ways to integrate your HT with the AVA stuff (I have an Insight DAC/preamp/240 Double).  I use the method described by moeaudio and it should work with your Onkyo 805 (you should have a digital out).  Frank's method is described in the link in the last reply and is at the bottom of the resulting pdf when you open the link.  Email me if you need help. 

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=71366.msg668574#msg668574

[adydula]

Thanks Bob!

I did not get the EC preamp , but the lower cost SL Insight+, this does not have the EPL in/outs.

I have drawn out the scenarios several times and its always confusing to me!!

The SL has normal inputs and Tape monitor....

The source like the Oppo BD83SE I have..has hdmi, digital optical and coax as well as 2 ch analog outs.

So i will connect this to the AVA Insight SL + Pre with the analog outs from the Oppo to analog in on the pre...to the new Ultravalve and LR speakers..this will be the best 2 ch using the dacs in the Oppo.

So the 2 ch anlaog part is easy.

When I watch a 5.1 movie, the hdmi from the Oppo will go to the AVR and I will take the AVR PreAmp outs to the AVA pre ins. What I dont know if this is the best or only way i can do this.. or
is there multiple DA's going on here?

Alex

[adydula]

Bob,

Think I have it!!

2 ch will work as described...AVR is off...LR fronts connected to the new amp.
5.1 sound from hdmi to AVR gets decoded preamp outs from the AVR to the AVA preamp in's select this input, make sure the volume on the preamp is set to a unity gain setting etc...need to figure this setting out...essentially should match the volume for the side etc. minor pain but do-able.

Alex

[vintagebob]

This would match my setup.  Except I don't have an UltraValve. 

I use the AVR as a digital switcher for my 2-channel setup.  I also use an Inday to convert the optical to coax for the Insight DAC.

[adydula]

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the daigram, which I understand! Amazing what pictures do for me!!

I dont have and external dac and to use an existing preamp without HT Bypass I found a way to do it but it takes a little more setup time to calibrate the HT side, the 2 ch side is easy.

Here is a post I found that explains it but the idea is solid:

"I've done this with several different stereo preamps and been very happy with the results. Unfortunately, the AVA Preamp doesn't have an HT Bypass, so you'll have to do this the slightly harder way.

1. Turn off and unplug the power for all components
2. Connect your 2 channel sources to the AVA Preamp, including the L/R stereo outputs from the Oppo, for CD playback.
3. Connect the main L/R pre-outs from the Onkyo 805 to the AVA Preamp.
4. Connect the left and right outputs of the AVA Preamp to the Ultravalve.

When listening to 2 channel sources, don't turn on the Onkyo 805 only the AVA Preamp, and operate as a normal stereo system.


For multi-channel sources, you will need to set the volume control on the AVA Preamp to unity gain. This is usually the 12 o'clock position or the middle of the adjustment range, but you will need to experiment to find it. What you are trying to do is have the main left and right signals from the Onkyo 805 pass through the AVA Preamp  without being attenuated or amplified. It doesn't have to be perfect, but you do want it to be close. Once you have found the unity gain position for the AVA Pramp volume control, mark it, so you will be able to go directly to it next time. Now re-calibrate the speaker settings on the Onkyo 805, or the Oppo, if you are using its analog outputs.

For MC playback, turn on the Onkyo 805 and the AVA Preamp. On the Onkyo 805 select the appropriate input. On the AVA Preamp select the input that the main L/R pre-outs from the Onkyo 805 are connected to and set the AVA Pramp volume control to the unity gain position you previously marked. The Onkyo 805 will be the master volume control.

As a precaution, you should always set all volume controls to minimum before powering up the system.

There are also ways to hook-up the main L/R hi-rez outputs from the Oppo to the AVA Preamp, but it can get complex and uses a lot of cables.."

Alex

[mchuckp]

This would match my setup.  Except I don't have an UltraValve. 

I use the AVR as a digital switcher for my 2-channel setup.  I also use an Inday to convert the optical to coax for the Insight DAC.

Have you ever done any comparisons of this set up against removing the AVR from the audio chain?  For me personally, I don't think I'd want my audio path for music to see the AVR at all.

[simon wagstaff]

Because there's a HUGE compromise in the pre-amp.  The difference will be startleling...

I am not going to 100% buy that. Pre-amp sections of current hi end AVRs are not that bad, perhaps pretty good. the 59i in it's day was a very high end piece of equipment with a list price of $4500.00.  In stereo mode it doubles the DACs and uses them in balanced mode. If I kick in the pure direct all the lights go off and all the video circuitry is shut off. When I use the firewire connection I eliminate the analogue interconnect between the DAC and preamp. I am sure that one of Frank's top end pre-amps might give me a little more transparency or whatever but I am very pleased with the sound and feel like in the greater scheme of things I am at least 90% of the way there. In stereo mode there are goose bumps galore when the source material can provide them.

My guess is that the internal DACS and pre-amp section of the Pioneer way outperform the dacs and output stages of most of the players I could afford. they certainly slay the analogue outs from my Oppo and DV79i. that is why I use the firewire.

One of my previous set ups was an Adcom pre-amp, counterpoint SA220 and Apogee Duetta Signatures...

So I am not sure the difference I would get would be "startling" but certainly perhaps worthwhile.

Where I feel the big weakness of most AVRs is in the amplifier section. Here you get the typical maximize watts without worrying about the sound quality or current output. In my case the U70 gives me at least as much usable volume as I would get using the 140 watts in the Pioneer. Nice to have those channels to drive my center and surrounds though. I DID find the insertion of the U70 to make a "startling" difference.

Now, when you take an analogue source like a turntable and redigitize it through an AVR or redigitize any analogue signal through and AVR I can certainly see your point.

In my case using a nice AVR and the U70 does the trick for both movies and 2 channel listening and have no urge to upgrade any of that signal path. the original poster did have concerns about volume for movies. Certainly using a sub and crossing over the U70 at 80 hz will help that out. In my case the Infinity IM 4.1 have a powered woofer section so I have never hit any volume limitations with either music or movies. 

[gjs_cds]

Feel free to do an A/B test..  It doesn't even have to be blind.

Then come back and report your results...

I only say this because I used to think that way too.  But Frank has schooled me time and time again...so I don't even question him anymore.

Seriously though--do an A/B test...  I did.  I was shocked.  Since then, I went separate systems...

[adydula]

I will do several tests when the Insight SL+ and Ultravalve amp arrive for sure.

The DACS is the OPPO SE are not slouch and I will take the 2 ch out from it to the AVA preamp to the Ultravalve. NO AVR in this chain when I listen to 2 ch stereo.

The connections for he HT with the LR pre amp outs is for convience etc..

I think I will wire up a set of speaker cables and when I want to watch a movie I will just unplug the speakers and connect to the AVR again.

The unity gain method described above should work, but your taking the preamp out from the AVR to a second pre-amp...even though its not providing any amplication in the AVA pre in this mode, its still going thru another set of op amps and connectors etc.


Alex

[simon wagstaff]

I am not going to question it, I am sure that separates would result in improved sound. I am just going to comment on what works and works well for me. The price is hard to beat as well. You can pick up a TSX59i for around 700 bucks these days, a DV79i for $200 and a firewire cable for 10 bucks.  there are a few old AVRs that were pretty sound quality conscious. The Denon 4803 with firewire and the Yamaha Z9.  the Denon does the same thing with the extra DACs in stereo, bridges them up. To me it was though MOSFET amps that I wanted nothing to do with. Hence the U70.

I am sure that AVA separates would represent a step up. What I found "startling" lately was when I picked up some Audioquest interconnects (to go between the AVR and U70) and speaker cables, with those funny battery packs. I got them for a good price and expected nothing from them except to be able to say "hey, look at these stupid cables with the battery packs". The improvement in dynamics, mid-range smoothness and soundstage was remarkable. I did not expect that at all.

For a while now I have been able to sit in front of my system and feel satisfied with the sound and have no urge for any upgrades which is certainly unusual. I think that it is all pretty well matched, and the U70 fits right in there and was the key component that led to this satisfaction.

Now, perhaps I will wonder how much better it would be with separates.  Perhaps.



And back to the original intent of this thread.  I think that all AVRs are not created equal and that there are at least a couple out there that are decent for 2 channel music. In my mind the main weakness of most of these AVRs is in the power amp section and dropping a U70 in there can work wonders. The original poster wondered if there would be enough power for movies, and especially if you are running the fronts in "small" with a subwoofer the answer is yes, the U70 sounds very powerful for a 35 watt amp.

Happy 4th of July!

[oneinthepipe]

My T8+ and Insight+ preamps are the hearts of my systems.  You don't know what you are missing.

[gjs_cds]

Well--I happen to agree with you...  Silly voo-doo cables with "battery packs" are definately not worth the money.  I'd go as far as to suggest that some may actually degrade sound by tuning it to sound "different".  And are they really battery packs?... Or just resistors in parrallel that are encased in some kind of fancy looking box?

And I will certainly agree that in higher end av units, they can sound pretty decent.  I ran that set up for years, and was happy.  And to me, that's what it's about--letting music add to your life.  And saving money is a good thing--it allows for more CDs or bigger family expenditures

currently, I've got this NAD pre-amp in my secondary system--and I am SO looking to dump it.  To say that it sounds absolutely dead, lifeless and flat is beside the point.  But I'll wait until the right used Ava pre-amp comes along and then jump on it

[Art_Chicago]

I agree. My T-8+ was the best investment after ST's. And I am also looking forward to retiring NAD from my secondary system. BTW, there is an Insight pre on the trading post 

[mchuckp]

My T8+ and Insight+ preamps are the hearts of my systems.  You don't know what you are missing.

I concur.  I LOVE the performance of the T8+.  I could see pretty much anything in my system being fair game for being traded out except my T8+.  Even if I wanted to, I haven't found anything on the market that suits my needs in features except for preamps by Emotiva and Parasound.  I've owned both and neither match the sonic performance of the T8.  Nearly every preamp on the market lacks something that I want (volume control, headphone amp, multitude of inputs, phono stage, 2 outputs).  Many of these things can be had in separate units but I know many of you are like me and have way TOO MUCH stuff and it is nice to eliminate a few components.

I wouldn't use it personally, but if Frank added a true HT Bypass function to his preamps, I think he'd make a killing.

[avahifi]

I am going to take a hard look at the possibility of providing a true line stage bypass on our preamps once I recover from the long 4th weekend.

Thanks for your patience.

Of course providing the extra capability, which will require chassis and circuit board re-tooling, better bring us better results than providing for balanced line in out functions did, zero sales of a balanced line out preamp so far.  It seems as though what AC members say they want and what they are actually pay for seems to vary.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine