[jomo-6]

Just curious, jomo-6, and if it was in your post and I missed it, I apologize, but what are you using for surrounds in your 5-1 setup? A couple more Circondares would be awesome!

Man, they sure would!  Before budget realities set in, I was actually seriously considering a pair of Veritas for the surrounds.  Maybe when the upgrade itch ensues (and my bank account recovers  -- it's not easy when you're starting from zero and acquiring every component within the space of 6 months).  A second sub would be tempting too....

Anyway, to answer your question, I ended up going with a pair of Emotiva ERD-1's.  They're cheap, they've got switchable bipole/dipole options, and they blend in well with the Circondares visually (if not sonically).  For my purposes (and budget), I'm happy with them.

[cstory]

That is a great looking system. That 15" sub looks pretty menacing sitting there. I'll bet it sounds great with music.

I'm from the camp of saving money on surrounds as well. The front three need to match pretty well, but I'm just not as picky about suround effects. I'm using Mirage Omnipolars with Martin-Logan front channels. Tonally not the best match, but with a little help for Audessey, they are quite satisfying with movies.

Chuck

[audio0947]

Rick,
Are you working on a center for the Circondare and if so could you share the info.

[kip_]

The Magnifico would probably work well, if not then he could probably come up with a design with an illuminator mid as well:

http://www.selahaudio.com/id238.html

[audio0947]

I'm sure that it would however, I would prefer something with the same sensitivity 88db vs 82db (I would be sitting about 16' from them) and the Magnifico also has a 12ohm (vs 4) impedance. It would take a lot more power than it is rated for to hit the levels I'm looking for at my lp, the Circondare I think will work would just need a compatible center and a pair of surrounds. Plus it costs almost as much as a pair of Circondare.

[Rick Craig]

I'm sure that it would however, I would prefer something with the same sensitivity 88db vs 82db (I would be sitting about 16' from them) and the Magnifico also has a 12ohm (vs 4) impedance. It would take a lot more power than it is rated for to hit the levels I'm looking for at my lp, the Circondare I think will work would just need a compatible center and a pair of surrounds. Plus it costs almost as much as a pair of Circondare.

The Magnifico can be configured for 88db sensitivity to match the Circondare (woofers wired in parallel). Let me know your budget and maximum cabinet dimensions and I can suggest a lower cost alternative.

[audio0947]

The Magnifico can be configured for 88db sensitivity to match the Circondare (woofers wired in parallel). Let me know your budget and maximum cabinet dimensions and I can suggest a lower cost alternative.

Budget for center would be 1800 or less, under 12"tall X 15"deep (length doesnt matter) and good tonal match for the Circondare. Use would be about 80%movie/TV  20%multi-channel/stereo music. This system will be pushed from time to time although the speakers will be crossed to a pair of very capable subs.

[Rick Craig]

Budget for center would be 1800 or less, under 12"tall X 15"deep (length doesnt matter) and good tonal match for the Circondare. Use would be about 80%movie/TV  20%multi-channel/stereo music. This system will be pushed from time to time although the speakers will be crossed to a pair of very capable subs.

For $1500-$1800 (depending on finish) this makes a very good match

[audio0947]

For $1500-$1800 (depending on finish) this makes a very good match

I saw that one on the website. could you post the info associated with it.
Thanks

[Rick Craig]

I saw that one on the website. could you post the info associated with it.
Thanks

Basically it's an updated version of the Sardonyx center channel with two Scan-Speak Illuminator 7" woofers, Morel dome mid, and RAAL 70-10 ribbon tweeter. 88db sensitivity, 5 ohm impedance, -3db @72hz (sealed box) and -10db @44hz.

[audio0947]

jomo,
I was wondering if you could post some more thoughts on your system after having it for a while. Are you still as happy as you were a month ago? Have you had any issues? For action movies do you ever find yourself wanting more spl then they can put out? How do they do with low level dialog? Also did the circondares come with grills? What are the aprox dimensions of your sub, seems a little small for the lms-r, i will be building two of them in the next month or two. Thanks for any replies.

[jomo-6]

jomo,
I was wondering if you could post some more thoughts on your system after having it for a while. Are you still as happy as you were a month ago? Have you had any issues? For action movies do you ever find yourself wanting more spl then they can put out? How do they do with low level dialog? Also did the circondares come with grills? What are the aprox dimensions of your sub, seems a little small for the lms-r, i will be building two of them in the next month or two. Thanks for any replies.

Yes, still very happy with this setup.  No issues, no regrets.  The Circondares (as well as the center and the sub) did come with grills that attach with strong magnets.  When I'm not listening, the grills are on.  Main strengths that stand out after a couple of months of listenting to the Circondares:

1.  Realism — These speakers shine in reproducing the subtle textures in vocals and acoustic instruments (sax, piano, cymbals, bass, etc.).  I think one of the things we’re all striving for with this hobby is to be able to close your eyes and experience the musicians in your living room.  To my ears, the Circondares deliver the tonality and detail that makes that illusion possible.

2.  Bass kick -- For relatively compact, sealed monitors, I continue to be impressed with the authority with which they can crank out the bass (getting at your spl question here).  My room is not at all ideal for maximizing spl -- wide open into another room on one side -- so I'm pretty confident that under better conditions, they'd kick even harder.  But I've got a good bit of power driving them (Parasound 5250), and I watch most movies at close to reference levels, so I can't say that I've ever found myself wanting more.  No problems w/ low level dialog either. 

Of course, all of this is fairly subjective (I haven't taken any measurements or conducted any blind A/B tests) -- no doubt our perceptions depend somewhat on our individual frames of reference, the type of system you're coming from, etc.  (Felt compelled to mention that, only because I get a little tired of reading gushing, overzealous equipment reviews that fail to acknowledge the challenges of subjectivity.  Reminds me of the often quoted "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture.")

Sub enclosure dimensions are roughly 19in x 19 in x 18.5 in deep.  (Love the sub -- subtle and detailed for music, yet capable of jiggling your internal organs when things blow up in movies).  I envy you that you're going to have two of them -- good luck with the build!

[hikinokie]

Could you build this in a H-PAS tower cabinet? Seems to me like larger and higher quality drivers than the ones in the Atlantic tower in the latest Home Theater magazine. Might make an affordable full range floorstanding loudspeaker.

[Rick Craig]

Could you build this in a H-PAS tower cabinet? Seems to me like larger and higher quality drivers than the ones in the Atlantic tower in the latest Home Theater magazine. Might make an affordable full range floorstanding loudspeaker.

Sure - that could easily be done.

[audio0947]

Sure - that could easily be done.

Careful now we don't want you to get into trouble, I haven't ordered my speakers yet. H-PAS is patent pending but I'm certain that you could build something that would be better in almost every way.
That tower will if what they say is true will get you about 105dbl at 30Hz with 3% harmonic distortion, not sure if thats in 1/2 space or what. That is impressive for those small drivers but does you no good if you use a sub and says nothing about how it sounds compared to competent designs using higher quality drivers. I'm sure its a nice speaker but I would take one of Rick's monitors with one of his TC12 subs any day of the week. 

[audio0947]

Found an actual test.
Bass output (CEA-2010 standard)
Ultra-low bass (20-31.5 Hz): NA
Low bass (40-63 Hz): 103.5 dB

Bass limits (lowest frequency and maximum SPL with limit of 10% distortion at 2 meters)
31.5 Hz at 89 dB SPL
95 dB average SPL from 31.5 to 63 Hz
99 dB maximum SPL at 63 Hz
bandwidth uniformity 94%

"Because Atlantic Technology claims outstanding bass output for the AT-1 relative to its size, I decided to measure it as if it were a subwoofer. I used the recently developed CEA-2010 standard for the measurements and data presentation, and also included measurements performed using our previous method for the sake of comparison. Although the measurement technique dictated by CEA-2010 is similar to the one we were using before, we've decided to switch in order to conform to an industry-standard method.

Bass-output measurements were a little unusual. Most speakers and subwoofers increase distortion gradually as the frequency gets lower. The AT-1, in contrast, has really good output in the top octave, drops only a little at 31.5 Hz, but has no usable bass response at the next CEA-2010 measurement point of 25 Hz. At this frequency, there was some output at the fundamental tone, but the level of the third distortion harmonic (75 Hz in this case) was too high for me to get a reading. At 20 Hz, it's practically all third harmonic and no fundamental. Thus, by the CEA-2010 standard, output in the ultra-low bass band of 20 to 31.5 Hz was unmeasurable, but output in the low bass band from 40 to 63 Hz was impressive at an average of 103.5 dB. Measured by our old standard, max SPL at 10% THD is 99 dB at 63 Hz, while average SPL is 95 dB and deepest usable bass response is at 31.5 Hz." -Brent Butterworth

[Rick Craig]

Careful now we don't want you to get into trouble, I haven't ordered my speakers yet. H-PAS is patent pending but I'm certain that you could build something that would be better in almost every way.
That tower will if what they say is true will get you about 105dbl at 30Hz with 3% harmonic distortion, not sure if thats in 1/2 space or what. That is impressive for those small drivers but does you no good if you use a sub and says nothing about how it sounds compared to competent designs using higher quality drivers. I'm sure its a nice speaker but I would take one of Rick's monitors with one of his TC12 subs any day of the week.

Oh - I missed the original question - I was thinking of simply converting the Circondare to a floorstanding design. The claims look interesting but I'm always skeptical until I see more information. The same is true for other bass designs that make claims for improved performance, such as the tapped horn subs and MLTL designs. I've been looking for nearfield or groundplane measurements of MLTL's and cannot find any. If anyone can locate one please let me know.