[worldcat]

Are colors black and silver or do u have copper too?

[David C]

Very nice
I want one, make that two ...... is there any 30 day free to try offer as Nuforce has done in the past?

[mca]

How long until that fancy on/off switch starts having problems?

[gojita]

Will there be a trade up policy for Ref 9 owners?

[rustydoglim]

Within a few seconds of listening to Ref 18, you will discover that it controls the speaker with ease. Comparing to Ref 9V3SE, it is faster, deeper and more dynamic. Overall, everything is just more refined.

The product page has updated images of silver and black Ref 18:
http://www.nuforce.com/hi/products/Monoamp/ref18v3/index.php
There are more photos in our photo gallery: http://picasaweb.google.com/nuforce.com/Reference18#

We just published an article on the different capacitor array technologies used in Ref 9V3SE and Ref 18.
http://www.nuforce.com/hi/faq/faq-cap-array.php

[bernardl]

Hi Jason,

Cool stuff, thanks for the update. Any news yet on the trade-in program from ref9 V3SE to Ref18?

Cheers,
Bernard

[worldcat]

Are Ref 18 shipping yet?

[bernardl]

Hi Jason,

Cool stuff, thanks for the update. Any news yet on the trade-in program from ref9 V3SE to Ref18?

Just got a mail on the trade in price, thank you.

It is a bit confusing though. The text says "we offer a trade-in credit equal to 60% of the Ref 18’s MSRP", which would mean 0.6*2*3800=4560 US$, which would result in an upgrade price equal to 2*3800-4560=3240 US$, but the example presented in the mail is that of a ref9 V3SE's price out of which 60% would be available as credit, meaning 3.000 US$, which results in a price of 7800-3000=4800 US$.

These 2 are pretty different (1.560 US$ different to be accurate).

I really hope that the former is correct, but could you please clarify?

Regardless, my honest feeling as a V3SE owner is that both versions of the trade in programs are a little bit unattractive. As a result, I feel that V3SE owners might just wait for V4 that will come 2 or 3 years later, instead of upgrading now to a Ref18 had the price been a bit lower.

Thank you.

Regards,
Bernard

[beachbum]

At the Nuforce website in the Ref 18 link which is very nice dimensions are not listed. We all know its 18 inches across but whats the depth of the amp?  Been with Ref 9 since its original version and went through all upgrades very interested in Ref 18 if they are shipping cant wait to hear from a user.

[srb]

We all know its 18 inches across but whats the depth of the amp?

Don't know the depth, but from NuForce on page 1 of this topic:
 
"All the current Reference series are 8.5" wide in a small form factor. The Reference 18 belongs to the new super high-end Reference series (the model number will be double that of the current and always available Ref 9 series) where all chassis are 17" wide."
 
Steve

[John Casler]

Just got a mail on the trade in price, thank you.

It is a bit confusing though. The text says "we offer a trade-in credit equal to 60% of the Ref 18’s MSRP", which would mean 0.6*2*3800=4560 US$, which would result in an upgrade price equal to 2*3800-4560=3240 US$, but the example presented in the mail is that of a ref9 V3SE's price out of which 60% would be available as credit, meaning 3.000 US$, which results in a price of 7800-3000=4800 US$.

These 2 are pretty different (1.560 US$ different to be accurate).

I really hope that the former is correct, but could you please clarify?

Regardless, my honest feeling as a V3SE owner is that both versions of the trade in programs are a little bit unattractive. As a result, I feel that V3SE owners might just wait for V4 that will come 2 or 3 years later, instead of upgrading now to a Ref18 had the price been a bit lower.

Thank you.

Regards,
Bernard

Hi Bernard,

Here is how it works:

Customers can trade-in their existing 8.5" wide Reference series for credit equal to 60% MSRP toward purchase of Reference 18.

For example:

Reference 9V3SE MSRP = $5000/pair
Trade-in credit = $3000
Reference 18 after trade-in credit = $4600

[bernardl]

Hi Bernard,

Here is how it works:

Customers can trade-in their existing 8.5" wide Reference series for credit equal to 60% MSRP toward purchase of Reference 18.

For example:

Reference 9V3SE MSRP = $5000/pair
Trade-in credit = $3000
Reference 18 after trade-in credit = $4600

Hi John,

Are you with Nuforce or is that your understanding of their letter?

If you are correct, then this really isn't a very good deal for existing nuforce owners.

Even taking into account the 70% deal for recent buyers of the V3SE, you wil end up having payed in 2010 5000 US$ for the initial V3SE purchae, on top of which you will be paying 4100 US$ more for the Ref18, meaning a total of 9,100 US$.

In essence, the existing V3SE users who have been supporting nuforce will pay significantly more total than new users buying a Ref18 from another source.

It is in fact probably more interesting to sell the V3SE on ebay than to subscribe to the trade in program. Again assuming that your understanding is correct.

Cheers,
Bernard

[juno]

Depth is announced at 15", height 2,95". don't know if it includes terminal though.
Add 4" if you use garden hose...

B

j

[6rs]

In essence, the existing V3SE users who have been supporting nuforce will pay significantly more total than new users buying a Ref18 from another source.

It is in fact probably more interesting to sell the V3SE on ebay than to subscribe to the trade in program. Again assuming that your understanding is correct.

I am perfectly happy with the 9V3SE. I did not buy them to "support" Nuforce in the first place, so they do not owe me anything.
BTW, looking at recent offers on Audiogon, 3500$ for a pair of 9v3SE seems slightly above the market price, so the trade-in appears more than fair to me.
But I understand that you would probably have bought the Ref18 straight away, were they available earlier (although they have been announced quite a while ago), and now the 9SEV3 appear like an unnecessary and costly detour...

[John Casler]

Hi John,

Are you with Nuforce or is that your understanding of their letter?

If you are correct, then this really isn't a very good deal for existing nuforce owners.

Even taking into account the 70% deal for recent buyers of the V3SE, you wil end up having payed in 2010 5000 US$ for the initial V3SE purchae, on top of which you will be paying 4100 US$ more for the Ref18, meaning a total of 9,100 US$.

In essence, the existing V3SE users who have been supporting nuforce will pay significantly more total than new users buying a Ref18 from another source.

It is in fact probably more interesting to sell the V3SE on ebay than to subscribe to the trade in program. Again assuming that your understanding is correct.

Cheers,
Bernard

Hi Bernard,

I am a NuFORCE dealer, and that is my understanding.

I am not aware of any other manufacturer that offers such a program for their customers.

In a general sense most who purchase and sell audio equipment know that "used" equipment in general is often sold at 50% of the original retail value.

This will vary depending on the gear of course.

This program simply allows you to "not" have to deal with the problems and issues involved in reselling your present equipment to a stranger, and allows you to recover about the same amount dealing with your present dealer or NuFORCE directly.

Regarding the total output math.  That scenario would likely be the same (or much worse) if you decided to move to any other high end amp and sell yours.  It is part of the hobby.  Unless dealing in classic or legacy gear 50% recovery is pretty reasonable expectation depending on length of use, condition and the equipment itself.

[bernardl]

But I understand that you would probably have bought the Ref18 straight away, were they available earlier (although they have been announced quite a while ago), and now the 9SEV3 appear like an unnecessary and costly detour...

Yes, indeed. Besides I had assumed that the conditions of the trade-in would be similar to what nuforce had offered in the past with their similar P8 to P9 trade-in program, I believe that the full retail value of the P8 was credited back then.

Cheers,
Bernard

[bernardl]

I am not aware of any other manufacturer that offers such a program for their customers.

This program simply allows you to "not" have to deal with the problems and issues involved in reselling your present equipment to a stranger, and allows you to recover about the same amount dealing with your present dealer or NuFORCE directly.

Regarding the total output math.  That scenario would likely be the same (or much worse) if you decided to move to any other high end amp and sell yours.  It is part of the hobby.  Unless dealing in classic or legacy gear 50% recovery is pretty reasonable expectation depending on length of use, condition and the equipment itself.

John,

I understand what you write above, but with all due respect I believe that you are missing the point a little.

The nuforce business model is clearly different and based on their understanding that offering good upgrade/trade-in programs will maximize their revenue in the long run by both offering good value to customers and keeping them captive within the nuforce family. This is a well known business model that has been implemented in the software business for years. It has to be tuned a bit based on actual material cost and nuforce has found the way to do this in the hifi world. It is not generosity, it is a win-win business model.

This is of course assuming that the customers perceive the proposed programs as being good value. As a customer I clearly don't see your understanding of their ref9 -> ref18 program as being good value, and the business model would therefore not work.

It wouldn't provide any incentive to stay with nuforce. This is why I believe that your understanding is probably mistaken and that the original statement "we offer a trade-in credit equal to 60% of the Ref 18’s MSRP" should be the correct one. But I would appreciate confirmation from someone at Nuforce.

If I can sell my pair of V3SE on ebay at the same price, then I might as well purchase a Devialet amp next month.

Thanks.

Regards,
Bernard

[bernardl]

John,

Nuforce has now updated their official upgrade/trade-in .pdf and they confirm your understanding.

I still don't understand the logic here, but it is of course their call.

On the positive side, I have just saved 4600 US$.

Regards,
Bernard

[David C]

What is that all about

[worldcat]

Well don't forget to save up some more money.  Nuforce is working on a Ref 20 per Jason! Estimate price 10k