[jules]

Like many other here I've got an older tt which hasn't been serviced for many years. Yes, it goes round in circles and the arm lifts ok [semi-automatic B&O] but there's at least 5 points where it can be lubricated. All of them are critical in one way or another though this post from Berndt:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=65332.msg787820#msg787820

illustrates how the choice of lubricant for the platter spindle bearing in particular can be important. Berndt might share his experiences directly so I'll leave the detail to him.

It's occurred to me that some of the high quality lubricants used in clocks and watches might be useful for tts. They vary in grades from light oils  [for fast moving parts with thin shafts] through to grease [for heavier, slow moving shafts]. Modern watch/clock lubricants are synthetic thus they don't dry out or get gummy and they are generally superior to mineral oils. An example is the range of products produced by Moebius.

http://www.ofrei.com/page246.html

They are expensive, even for small volumes but maybe they'd be useful. There are other cheaper oil options like Dupont teflon synthetic but i'm not sure if they make a full range of different viscosity products.

What do you use and what do you think about this matter?

jules 

[analognut]

I use this: http://tufoil.com/
My Sota TT has an inverted bearing and that's what they use in them. Sota claims their TTs have lasted for 20 years with no servicing required. This stuff is in the Guinness Book Of World Records as being the world's most efficient lubricant. It has been around a very long time and as far as I know has never been surpassed. It has a synthetic base, the formula has over a dozen patents in countries all over the world. I also use it in my car engine- the difference it made in how the car runs was amazing.

I go here to buy it:
http://tufoil.net/
You can get needle oilers, pints, gallons, whatever you want there .

No, I'm not associated with Tufoil in any way, shape or form, but I'm a believer and I love the stuff. 

[rcag_ils]

any good quality motor oil would work, I use Mobil 1 synthetic 5-30

[TheChairGuy]

Like analognut....I've used Tufoil in my TT with great effect in an old Thorens TD-316.

Using Tufoil in my old VPI HW-19 Mk. III didn't yield a benefit that I could tell from whatever was in there beforehand. It seems the better the bearing (ie, close tolerance) from the start, the less likely specialist lubricants will be needed

There's a guy on another site that claims Moly products are the best...he's a Mechanical Engineer by trade, so I'm inclined to believe him.

Lubro-Moly is one of the better brand names out there - recommended by BMW and I think Mercedes-Benz for their vehicles.

I now have A VPI Classic, with inverted bearing, and VPI now recommends grease (specifically, while lithium).  Not one to leave well enough alone I bought the priciest and supposedly best grease in the world, Dupont Krytox to see if there was benefit - at $30 per 2 oz you'd hope it would No such luck - to my ears - it did not better the white lithium grease.  Again the bearing is super close tolerance, so it seems to mitigate the benefit of lubricant.

John

[jules]

Not one to leave well enough alone I bought the priciest and supposedly best grease in the world, Dupont Krytox to see if there was benefit - at $30 per 2 oz you'd hope it would No such luck - to my ears - it did not better the white lithium grease.  Again the bearing is super close tolerance, so it seems to mitigate the benefit of lubricant.

If Superman couldn't tame the powers of Kryptonite, Dupont was silly to try but thanks everyone. It seems that auto grade synthetics, particularly Tufoil, are the winners.

I might try some clock oil in the tone arm pivot bearings since the load is so light but unless you're using a very heavy platter [not sure what the VPI weighs John], grease would seem to be excessive and high quality auto engine grade synthetics [different brands here in Aus.] are the go.

jules

jules

[Berndt]

The thing I have noticed is that the finer the clearance of the spindle interface the less fussy the bearing is to lubricant viscosity.
Not to say that grease is interchangeable with 5w oil, just the old empires really like STP or grease but their clearances are greater than .003". When a empire gets light oil the bass response loses integration. These are my results.
I have also played with different thrust materials in the thrust potion of the brg and encountered gross changes in prat and presentation. The last spindle bearing I made had a removeable bottom to facilitate swapping thrust materials.
These are just my experiences, your results may vary.

[Berndt]

Jules, we both had 1007 posts.

[TheChairGuy]

I might try some clock oil in the tone arm pivot bearings since the load is so light but unless you're using a very heavy platter [not sure what the VPI weighs John], grease would seem to be excessive and high quality auto engine grade synthetics [different brands here in Aus.] are the go.

jules

The platter is really heavy in the VPI Classic...I think some 20lbs (9k or so).  So maybe why VPI specifies grease now 

John

[wrathchild]

I do not know specifically about recommended turntable bearing grease, but I think a light viscosity grease would be best, as noted in prior post.  My Project TT has a light, white grease on the bearing that looks and has the same consistency as "lubriplate", which is very commonly available.

  Most common greases are lithium based.

 Moly is for extreme pres. applications, and usually heavy and sticky, not the best for a tt IMHO.  A light lubricant would allow the least friction I would think,

  The actual amount of grease necessary in almost any bearing is miniscule. If you can see the grease, that grease is not being used.

  Using grease, as opposed to oil, is only to hold the base oil in the grease, in place.

 I like the tufoil, 5w30, lubriplate ideas. Light enough to spin freely without the added drag of grease, but will stay where it's needed

 

[Sonny]

The platter is really heavy in the VPI Classic...I think some 20lbs (9k or so).  So maybe why VPI specifies grease now 

John

Like John, I too have the Classic Platter, but on a TNT series VPI Table.  I too use White Lithium and it works just fine.   
T

[jules]

The platter is really heavy in the VPI Classic...I think some 20lbs (9k or so).  So maybe why VPI specifies grease now 

Yes, per square inch the pressure would be quite high, possibly close to 100lb per square inch I imagine, so grease makes sense.

Other parts of the system ... pressures only in ounces per square inch [guessing wildly here  ] but there's a big difference between the arm pivots and the platter bearing.

Yes, Berndt, I didn't notice I'd passed 1,000 till the last couple of posts. On to 2,000!!

jules

afterthought: a certain amount of drag from grease could damp rotational speed variations ... so long as the belt drive didn't get hysterics from a slightly greater load.

[Wayner]

I use Slick 50 on TT shafts and 1000 Cs liquid silicone on the tonearm bearings.

Wayner

[Ericus Rex]

 Moly is for extreme pres. applications, and usually heavy and sticky, not the best for a tt IMHO. 

 

A heavy platter resting on a fine point (or ball bearing) can be several hundred pounds per square inch I imagine.  I can see where the moly would protect that surface better and the light lube would be better for the rotating sides of the spindle.  I suppose it all depends on which of those surfaces is more prone to wear.  Any ideas?

[Berndt]

I think that the turntable is a resonant system. The bearing interface for the platter is part of a resonant feedback loop.
Hearing the differences in the lubricants reflects this idea to me. Of course I am using the pabst/empire motor that has the torque of a washing machine motor.
On car or motorcycle forums oil topics are usually a giant flame war.
Glad us audio guys can be so genteel.

[twitch54]

Ditto with Tuan and John, I utlize the VPI 'Super Platter' (25 lbs), combine that with a 'perf ring' and your pushing 28 lbs.

[Wayner]

I think it is also important to clean out the bearing well before re-lubing, as this old oil/grease becomes contaminated with dust, metal oxidation and general breakdown of the lube. I generally re-do every table in the spring. Make sure you don't leave any contaminants in the well when replacing oil/grease and always check the platter shaft for odd looking wear marks or damage.

Wayner

[Sonny]

Ditto with Tuan and John, I utlize the VPI 'Super Platter' (25 lbs), combine that with a 'perf ring' and your pushing 28 lbs.

Dave, when did you switch over to the Super Platter and do you find it much better than the original platter that came with the HRX (That's what you have, right?)  Still using my cables?