[Mariusz]

I used to be in the camp that "all amps sound alike" until I fired up the Butler. 

I do not own Butler (do not need that kind of power), but I know that amps DO NOT sound alike.    

If there is a camp for those kind of weirdos, then sign me up!
 

[Daverz]

My BAT VK-250 sounds very different from my Bryston 3B-SST.  But the BAT has an input impedance 10 times that of the Bryston, so this should not be at all surprising.  Amps also vary in their output impedance.  This is something I something I rarely see mentioned when people talk about the differences between amps.

[Tyson]

For $2k I'd DIY a Simple SE amp to insane levels of quality.

[Nuance]

Daverz,

Do you mean input impedance?

Thanks for the extra suggestions fellas.  This week (Monday) I took delivery of the Butler TDB 2250.  I will hold off my comments until I've put more time in with it (been a busy week), but so far so good. 

[BobM]

The best McCormack DNA amp I could find.

[Nuance]

I plan on putting a lot more time in with the new addition to my audio system, but here are some initial impressions.

I took delivery of the Butler TDB 2250 amplifier this past Monday, but until this weekend I had only put about an hours listening time in with it.  I have two young children and a pregnant wife, so things are very busy from the moment I go to work to the moment I hit the hay.  This weekend, however, I put in a few more hours with the amplifier, and so far so good.  The sound stage depth got dramatically better, not to mention the width and overall envelopment.  While listening to albums like Keiko Matsui's "Sapphire" or Joe Satriani's "Professor Satchafunkilus and the Musterion of Rock," I could swear my rear speakers are on.  I did get this effect with my old amp, but not to this extreme.  Imaging is much more pinpoint/precise with the Butler...the sound is just so much more enveloping; I love it!  Finally, the bass is quite different, with there being more heft and weight with the Butler.  I don't know which is more accurate, but the Emotiva sounds thin and lean in comparison.  I prefer the Butler, whether its more true to the source or not. 

The only odd thing about the Butler is it ran 2.5 dB quieter than the Emotiva.  Due to this I had to reduce the gain on my subwoofer amps and receiver's subwoofer output to compensate, else the bass was a bit overpowering below the crossover.  I am guessing the difference in input sensitivity and impedance is what caused this.  Either way, once I realized it and re-adjusted it was no longer an issue and was easier to compare apples to apples.  Even after the reductions the bass control is still better using the Butler, so I don't understand why some people say its too lean.  I found it to be the opposite.

I will continue to listen, but the more I do, the more I like this amp! 

[lonewolfny42]

Nuance ...

Even after the reductions the bass control is still better using the Butler, so I don't understand why some people say its too lean.  I found it to be the opposite.

It's not really lean....it's there....but as an example, an older Krell or a McCormack DNA-500 will have a bit stronger bass sound.

Glad to hear you are enjoying the Butler....it's a good amp....and it runs cool...enjoy! 

[ajzepp]

Finally, the bass is quite different, with there being more heft and weight with the Butler.  I don't know which is more accurate, but the Emotiva sounds thin and lean in comparison.  I prefer the Butler, whether its more true to the source or not. 

I run my Maggie 3.6s full range, biamped with a pair of Butlers, and I love the low end I get. I remember when BK Butler told me in an email that he used to do shows with Jim Winey and pair his amps with the Maggies. He always assured me I'd get excellent results (before I went back to Magnepans, that is) and he was exactly right. Even when I was only using a 5150 (150wpc) to power my 3.6s, the sound was great and  they had plenty of juice to do the job. Now that I have lots-o-watts from the Butlers on tap, I get all the bass I want and need.

Enjoy the Butler, Nuance! 

[INCOGNITO 2 aka evan1]

 

Welcome to the Rosewood St's and Butler club

[Nuance]

Hehe, thanks guys.  Every time I listen I am blown away by the envelopment the Butler added to the music.  On well recorded material it negates my desire to go with a multi-channel music setup.  This is just too cool! 

[music lover]

 Nuance, have you ever compared the Butler amp to the AVA Ultra 550? I am also looking at the Butler amp. It seems like a very

good amp for the money. From what I have read, the Butler's tube sound comes out of the output stage vs the other hybrids which

the benefit of the tubes are at the input stage,so sort of like using a tube pre-amp. If properly designed, I would think it is better at

the output rather than input. Your feedback would be most appreciated

[Nuance]

Nuance, have you ever compared the Butler amp to the AVA Ultra 550? I am also looking at the Butler amp. It seems like a very

good amp for the money. From what I have read, the Butler's tube sound comes out of the output stage vs the other hybrids which

the benefit of the tubes are at the input stage,so sort of like using a tube pre-amp. If properly designed, I would think it is better at

the output rather than input. Your feedback would be most appreciated

I have not compared the two, no, but I would really like to.  I've seen some people say the Butler sounds better, then others that say the AVA is better.  I never really considered a hybrid amp until a couple months ago, but then I forgot about them until the Butler popped up on audiogon.  Thanks to some wise AC members I was informed of the sale and jumped on it.  I have NO regrets, as this thing is just awesome!  If I could, though, I'd pit the Butler against the Fetvalve 550; the ultimate faceoff!

I am curious about the Fetvalve, though (need to research it): do the tubes need re-biasing and changing often?  The thing that intrigued me about the Butler is that the tubes will last the entire life-cycle of the amplifier, never needing to be re-biased.  So basically all the negatives about tubes went away, plus I get the benefit of SS power.  Win win for a guy who wants the tube sound but no hassle.    I wonder if the AVA works the same way.

Sorry I couldn't be of much help.  I know there are a few members on this forum that have heard both, though.  Hopefully they'll weigh in.

[music lover]

 Thanks, for the reply, from what I have read on reviews, the Butler is a full sounding, rich, fleshed out amp,  and not lean and thin

sounding.Is that your impression of your amp? I guess we wiil wait on what others who have heard both AVA Ultra 550 and the 2250

have to say and how they compare.

[coke]

While listening to albums like Keiko Matsui's "Sapphire" or Joe Satriani's "Professor Satchafunkilus and the Musterion of Rock," I could swear my rear speakers are on.  I did get this effect with my old amp, but not to this extreme.  Imaging is much more pinpoint/precise with the Butler...the sound is just so much more enveloping;

I get the same effect every now and then on my system which consists of HT2-TLs, an AVA Ultra pre, and and AVA Ultra 550 (AVA vision DAC will be added soon ).   I've litereally looked back over my shoulder a few times, because the sound appeard to be coming from behind me. 

Also you mentioned a multi channel set up.  In my 2 channel set up, there is a very strong center image (when there should be), sort of like having a center channel.  I had planned on buying a center and surrounds, but I really don't feel like i'm missing much.  I went from a 5.1 system with a 15" 1000W sub to what I have now.  Even though I'm lacking some of the dynamics of before, I really don't feel that i'm missing all that much with just 2 speakers.

I don't have any experience with the amp you bought, so I can't compare it to mine.

[Nuance]

Coke,

I mentioned multi-channel only because my system sounds like that's how I am listening.  I would eventually like to get an analog multi-channel preamp with bass management, such as the Parasound P7, but right now I'm happy that my system can simulate my center and rears being in play. 

[rollo]

 The Nightshade NS50SE for $1200 sounds very inviting.


charles

[cujobob]

There are a lot of good <$1000 amps around....for many folks, I hope they consider investing in better speakers vs. upgrading amps.

[bummrush]

Dont agree at all ,way to big of a difference for what a $2000 ,compared to $1000 dollar amp would bring to the table,

[Nuance]

Welcome to the Rosewood St's and Butler club

What is the rest of the system comprised of, buddy?