[mchuckp]

mchuckp,

I see that you are using both the Oppo BDP-SE and Touch as a transport. Can you compare how they sound as transports through your W4S DAC? Doubt I am alone having all three of these pieces of equipment on my radar...

I gave some impressions in this thread (post #47).
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=79660.40

The short answer based on my first week with the unit is that I DO prefer the sound of the W4S DAC fed by the Oppo or SB over just the output of the Oppo.  During my comparisons I couldn't tell the difference between playing AppleLossless files from my Touch vs CDs on my Oppo.  I should repeat the experiment now that the DAC has burned in a lot more.

The SE is a major waste of cash to only use as a transport but since I already have it, why not keep it.  I debated selling it and getting a standard Oppo but decided it wasn't worth it.  No matter what, the Oppo 983 is a KILLER bluray/dvd player and can't part with the video performance.

[adydula]

Gopher, this is day 3 for the Touch and the PE supply. I measured the supply before I started using it. 6.00 vdc...and all the other selections were spot on as well. I tried all of the dc connectors from PE, only one would fit, and its very snug, I also checked this, and this may be your problem, polarity on the DC, make sure you dont have it reversed, if it is the Touch will NOT power up.

Check it out...I am not running a real critical AB test with the PE supply with the three outs, analog, optical real glass and digital coax...so far using the Boulder Demo disk and Dave Chesky' s "Club De Sol" they all sound great...I cant not hear any real differences in tone, timbre, bass, highs, but do when i switch back to the stock supply.

Its really sounding GREAT!! and the supply is not running hot at all.

All the best

Alex

[eclein]

Isn't it amazing how much difference the linear power
supply makes. 

[Gopher]

Very interesting, Alex.  I wonder if thats what I got wrong, though I'm not too inclined to experiment further with the PE Psu as I already sprung for a bolder modded elpac which is starting to come around a lot. 

I may tell my dad to go ahead and pull the trigger on a touch to compliment his duet though as I think we have an extra parts express psu somewhere and he won't be using a DAC.

[Wayne1]

Gopher, this is day 3 for the Touch and the PE supply. I measured the supply before I started using it. 6.00 vdc...and all the other selections were spot on as well. I tried all of the dc connectors from PE, only one would fit, and its very snug, I also checked this, and this may be your problem, polarity on the DC, make sure you dont have it reversed, if it is the Touch will NOT power up.

I cant not hear any real differences in tone, timbre, bass, highs, but do when i switch back to the stock supply.

Its really sounding GREAT!! and the supply is not running hot at all.

All the best

Alex

Alex,
While the PE supply may not be running to hot, I am sure the voltage regulators inside the Touch are not too happy. They are having to dissipate the extra voltage as heat. For most gear this should not be a problem but with the sealed Touch and using all surface mount parts, a failure could be in the offing somewhere down the road.

As an EE, it should be very easy for you to take apart the PE supply and change one resistor. I believe the Touch will be happier for this in the future.

[adydula]

Wayne...

Agree and done!

Taking the touch apart, VERY CAREFULLY..the circuitry etc was not very hot at all.

I actually placed a thermocouple on the external case, inside etc and didnt notice any real world differences in temps etc.

But like you said its an easy thing to do.

Alex

UPDATE: For anyone that wants to modify a PE supply its really easy to get the 6 volt selection to be 5 volts...simple unsolder a resistor and replace it with another. The resistor is about 15 cents to $1.00 or so...shippng and handling is ridiculous but it is what it is. Works just fine. Little ohms law and some simple math and your home free!

[stormsonic]

Care to share? 

modded SB3 is clear winner (comparing S/PDIF out) 
Yesterday opened Touch and traced S/PDIF signal backwards to 74LVCU04 chip (74HCU04 is used in SB3). Digital section can be improved, there is no output transformer and capacitor is parallel to termination resistor, etc, etc. Nothing critical, problem is lack of space and multilayer PCB, very difficult to trace stripes.
If anyone want to perform surgery, he should pay attention to R66, R67, R225 resistors and C95, C96 capacitors 

[mchuckp]

Tonight I dug out a brand new toslink cable I bought some time ago from BlueJeans that never got used.  I did some comparisons back and forth to the coaxial connection (also BlueJeans) into my Wyred4Sound DAC-1.  At first, I thought the Toslink WAS sounding better than the coaxial but after further listening, I felt the Toslink was a bit harsh in the presentation.  It did seem to be pulling more out of the recording but didn't seem very smooth to me and a bit harsh on the ears.  The coaxial seemed a smidge less detailed but had a very nice smooth sound to it through the whole frequency range.  So for me, I guess the question is it more of a matter of preference in presentation or maybe my Toslink path needs broken in my DAC as this is the first time I have used that path.  I'm gonna keep streaming some data through the Toslink for a few days and do a comparo again.  I did notice my DAC-1 really smoothing out nicely as it got broken in.  Not sure if one needs to break in each path individually.

Also, based on TJHUB's suggestion, I ordered a glass fiber toslink from Parts Express.  I'm VERY tempted to order a Bolder power supply to see the effect.

Wanted to throw out an update.  I noted above that I preferred the coaxial over optical into my W4S DAC-1 from the Touch.  It was recommended I try a glass toslink.  I ordered the one recommended from Parts Express and gave it a whirl.  I found the bass slightly better using the glass over the plastic fiber, but still preferred the sound of the coaxial.  Not denying the findings of anyone else in their preference but in my system, it just isn't cutting it.  Optical just comes off a little harsh and just sounds "Off".  Coaxial is a very smooth presentation to my ears and preferred.

Again, not denying what others notice.  I think it just shows that you need to check out the options given to you and decide for yourself.  Every system is different and everyone's ears are different.

[TJHUB]

Wanted to throw out an update.  I noted above that I preferred the coaxial over optical into my W4S DAC-1 from the Touch.  It was recommended I try a glass toslink.  I ordered the one recommended from Parts Express and gave it a whirl.  I found the bass slightly better using the glass over the plastic fiber, but still preferred the sound of the coaxial.  Not denying the findings of anyone else in their preference but in my system, it just isn't cutting it.  Optical just comes off a little harsh and just sounds "Off".  Coaxial is a very smooth presentation to my ears and preferred.

Again, not denying what others notice.  I think it just shows that you need to check out the options given to you and decide for yourself.  Every system is different and everyone's ears are different.

Sorry the glass optical didn't work out for you.  Because of this post, I just did another comparison of my glass optical cable against my digital coax cable this morning just to make sure I still felt the same.

For me, the digital coax sounds good, but the glass optical sounds more open and clear.  I can hear more ambiance in the music (a lot more actually).  The imaging is much more precise and separation is greater.  The glass optical is just overall cleaner sounding and neither the coax or the glass optical is harsh or grainy sounding over the other. 

I don't know what it is with my gear; the Duet, my DAC, or whatever.  All I know is that the glass optical cable is the clear (pun intended) winner for me.

[mchuckp]

Sorry the glass optical didn't work out for you.  Because of this post, I just did another comparison of my glass optical cable against my digital coax cable this morning just to make sure I still felt the same.

For me, the digital coax sounds good, but the glass optical sounds more open and clear.  I can hear more ambiance in the music (a lot more actually).  The imaging is much more precise and separation is greater.  The glass optical is just overall cleaner sounding and neither the coax or the glass optical is harsh or grainy sounding over the other. 

I don't know what it is with my gear; the Duet, my DAC, or whatever.  All I know is that the glass optical cable is the clear (pun intended) winner for me.

Yeah, I don't doubt your findings at all and don't want to influence readers one way or the other.  Just goes to show different set ups ARE different and there are a lot of things that are in play that make up our final sound.  It is also possible that either of us could hear each other's and STILL agree with our findings, meaning it is a matter of preference to each of our ears.  Who knows.

I'm glad I tried the experiment.  I probably should repeat the experiment out of my Oppo-83SE just for the heck of it.  I'm also ordering a new power supply for my Touch soon from Bolder and will repeat the experiment after that.

[NewBuyer]

...the digital coax sounds good, but the glass optical sounds more open and clear.  I can hear more ambiance in the music (a lot more actually).  The imaging is much more precise and separation is greater.  The glass optical is just overall cleaner sounding and neither the coax or the glass optical is harsh or grainy sounding over the other...

Same here - your description is (more or less) what I have generally found as well. 

On the SlimDevices/Logitech forum, the original SlimDevices designer (Sean Adams) once advised the following, which may explain why some do hear such differences between optical vs. coax digital:

"Personally I find it unfortunate that S/PDIF was ever specified to run over coax copper in the first place. There are some who claim it's better than fiber for various reasons, but all empirical data says that optical S/PDIF is FAR more reliable, works over longer distances, and delivers measurably lower jitter at the receiver. It also inherently isolates ground offset, low frequency and EMI noise between devices. The only good reason to use coax is if you don't have an optical cable or an optical input available, which is primarily why we have the connector there."

[cloudbaseracer]

Same here - your description is (more or less) what I have generally found as well. 

On the SlimDevices/Logitech forum, the original SlimDevices designer (Sean Adams) once advised the following, which may explain why some do hear such differences between optical vs. coax digital:

Wow!  I thought almost all audiophiles said that coax is discernibly better than optical?  Has there been a recent change in parts quality or some other reason for the experience/comments from the Slim Devices designer?  Just very curious as another piece of gear I am looking at only has an optical out and I thought that would be a negative - given all the debated advantages of coax.

Cheers,

James

[eclein]

I know that for me using optical just sounds better all the way around for my setup, not sure why, it just does. I use Optical out on my PS3 to a DAC and its awesome, I use Optical out on my Blu-Ray player most of the time as it sounds better to me that way-its a 5.1 setup.
 Optical out from my Squeezebox just sounds fuller, more detailed..I did blind A,B tests with my apartment buddy and always preferred the sound from the Optical outs over the coax everytime....FWIW

[mchuckp]

I know that for me using optical just sounds better all the way around for my setup, not sure why, it just does. I use Optical out on my PS3 to a DAC and its awesome, I use Optical out on my Blu-Ray player most of the time as it sounds better to me that way-its a 5.1 setup.
 Optical out from my Squeezebox just sounds fuller, more detailed..I did blind A,B tests with my apartment buddy and always preferred the sound from the Optical outs over the coax everytime....FWIW

I know for me, I did feel that optical seemed to pull (or possibly PUSH) detail in some aspects of the recording.  But it was not natural and lacked realism.  As I described before, it just sounded "Off" and not very smooth.  Hard to explain, but I just don't like it.  I have a Touch off to Wayne at Bolder for some mods and a new power supply.  Interested to see what I think when I get it in terms of coax vs optical.

[eclein]

A touch in Wayne's hand will probably come back awesome either way-I look forward to hearing your feedback

[ronpod]

I just realized the I have a Elpac WM220 connected to the Analog Signal Processors (ASPs) that are a part of the Linkwitz Orion+ speaker kit. The ps listed in the kit BOM was obsolete and the Digikey rep suggested that the WM220 would be a good replacement. The 5V supply is not used in the ASP. The power is jumpered from one channel of the ASP (a 5-pin DIN socket) to the other identical channel ASP (and its socket). If I solder a jumper wire from one socket (the unused 5V pin) to the other than I can use the unused socket to output the 5V. A cable with the male 5-pin DIN plug could be used replacing the opposite end with the adaptor plug for the SB Touch. Then I could power the Touch from the WM220 through the ASP plugs with simple adapted cable.

My question is would there be any benefit from upgrading the Elpac WM220 with better internal components for both the 12V and the 5V supplies? Would clean power for both the active cross-overs and the Touch improve my system?

Ron