Secrets of Tube Amps Revelated!!

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Steve

Re: Secrets of Tube Amps Revelated!!
« Reply #20 on: 23 May 2010, 10:06 pm »
Quote

OK, I'll bite on this one.  Why would black anodized aluminum be better than non-anodized or any other color of anodizing?  After all it's just a coloring process.

I think Gustavo is referring to the chassis dissipating heat and staying cooler. Black radiates heat much better than aluminum/silver/white colors.

Cheers.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Secrets of Tube Amps Revelated!!
« Reply #21 on: 24 May 2010, 04:51 am »

OK, I'll bite on this one.  Why would black anodized aluminum be better than non-anodized or any other color of anodizing?  After all it's just a coloring process.  And second magnesium is not a better heat conductor than aluminum, sorry.  Follow this link and you will see in the table what the heat conductivity is for several metals.  I found it interesting that aluminum's conductivity goes up as temperature rises.  Copper is a far better heat conductor (all those French chefs can't be wrong  ;) ) but it's heat conductivity goes down as temp rises, although it is over a significantly larger range.
 
Jack Elliano of ElectraPrint fame agrees with you on this.  Although he uses hardwoods for the sides, front, and back and pressed hardboard for the top plate painted with a hammertone finish.  Here is his tech blog on the subject.
 
RFI, or radio frequency interference, should not be a problem unless you live within 5 miles of a high power transmitter.  Cell phones do cause problems as well.
 
Agreed that brass is not as good a heat conductor as aluminum.  As to sound quality I have no experience but it would seem that brass is used for aesthetic purposes more than anything else.
 
Well that's the science I came up with doing just a bit of research on the first two points.  The second two are just my opinion, FWIW.
Thanks for the Links, very intersting indeed.  I was unaware copper is better thermal coller than aluminium, looks it is unused in solidstate amps heat sinks for cost reasons and for it is a magnetic metal.

The black is the color that more heats, so is the color that most cooling a equipment that generates heat.  A ink/paint is no good for convection colling as it have a tick skin over the metal, that blocks the air contact and the dissipation of heat is slow.
A anodized part have a very thin skin over the metal, as it is a corrosive process, and the heating/ cooling is fast.
Regards, Gustavo

JakeJ

Re: Secrets of Tube Amps Revelated!!
« Reply #22 on: 24 May 2010, 04:54 am »
I couldn't find much information but this link does seem to support the theory.http://www.globalwinusa.com/faqs/heatsink/color.html

However, I do remember chatting with Joe Curcio about painting transformers and he stated that painting the end bells is not a problem but never paint the laminations.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Secrets of Tube Amps Revelated!!
« Reply #23 on: 24 May 2010, 05:08 am »
I think Gustavo is referring to the chassis dissipating heat and staying cooler. Black radiates heat much better than aluminum/silver/white colors.

Cheers.
Thanks Steve for clear, you are right. 
About the chassis materials, some expensive tube amps use brass as chassis, I remember now the Audiopax 88 use brass and wood as chassis.
Mr.Dieter Enermoser make a 18 inches fullrange or wide range(flat til 3Khz) with a brass(bronze) basket, looks expensive.
http://www.ennemoser.com/speakers.html
Regards, Gustavo

Steve

Re: Secrets of Tube Amps Revelated!!
« Reply #24 on: 24 May 2010, 06:22 pm »
Thanks Steve for clear, you are right. 
Regards, Gustavo

I was only repeating what I believe you had already stated and understood Gustavo.   :)

Cheers.

boead

Re: Secrets of Tube Amps Revelated!!
« Reply #25 on: 24 May 2010, 07:06 pm »
CAT 5e Plenum
I used all sorts of CAT5 solid core combinations; single strand to large braided groups.
A single strand of CAT5e has a distinctive sound for sure.
Better? No.
Worse? No.
Just different.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Secrets of Tube Amps Revelated!!
« Reply #26 on: 26 May 2010, 09:21 am »
CAT 5e Plenum
I used all sorts of CAT5 solid core combinations; single strand to large braided groups.
A single strand of CAT5e has a distinctive sound for sure.
Better? No.
Worse? No.
Just different.
HI,
I read about this cable in other thread.   I wonder what exactly is this cable?
It is a audio cable??    It is a electric generic cable??     CAT5 is the manufacturer or model/type??   
What about the price??
Thanks,   Gustavo

JakeJ

Re: Secrets of Tube Amps Revelated!!
« Reply #27 on: 26 May 2010, 03:33 pm »
Hi Gustavo,

CAT5, CAT5e, & CAT6 are computer network communications cables.  CAT stands for "category" and each number relates to bandwidth capability.  The "e" is for enhanced.  I believe it all started with CAT1.  This link is to a Wikipedia article and there is a chart at the bottom that relates the speeds the various category cables are/were used for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable

There are a few DIYers that have made their own speaker cables using these.

Hope this helps.

Jake

Napalm

Re: Secrets of Tube Amps Revelated!!
« Reply #28 on: 26 May 2010, 04:13 pm »


Yeah. And people are rushing to replace their original fuses with some thick something....  :nono:

Nap.  :jester:

boead

Re: Secrets of Tube Amps Revelated!!
« Reply #29 on: 26 May 2010, 04:34 pm »
Hi Gustavo,

CAT5, CAT5e, & CAT6 are computer network communications cables.  CAT stands for "category" and each number relates to bandwidth capability.  The "e" is for enhanced.  I believe it all started with CAT1.  This link is to a Wikipedia article and there is a chart at the bottom that relates the speeds the various category cables are/were used for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable

There are a few DIYers that have made their own speaker cables using these.

Hope this helps.

Jake

Yes, and CAT 5e Plenum is a solid core type.
Most CAT cables contain groups of stranded wire, Plenum are solid core. Its cheap and don’t think CAT6 is better because of its increased bandwidth ability, its not in my opinion.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Secrets of Tube Amps Revelated!!
« Reply #30 on: 26 May 2010, 05:37 pm »
Thanks Boys for informe me about it, I will see what is avaliable here in Brazil in the hardware shops.
Regards, Gustavo

FullRangeMan

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Re: Secrets of Tube Amps Revelated!!
« Reply #31 on: 26 May 2010, 05:41 pm »
Yeah. And people are rushing to replace their original fuses with some thick something....  :nono:

Nap.  :jester:
Hi,
This image info refer only to DC musical signal inside the amp/preamp, not AC power wiring.  Thin wire for AC current/tension looks dangerous to me.
Regards, Gustavo

boead

Re: Secrets of Tube Amps Revelated!!
« Reply #32 on: 26 May 2010, 07:27 pm »
Here are some photos of past rigs and stuff.





 





My favorite speaker cables:
Litz Type-4, magnetic in a nylon jacket. Each of the 400+ strands are coated.





FullRangeMan

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Re: Secrets of Tube Amps Revelated!!
« Reply #33 on: 26 May 2010, 09:07 pm »
Many Thanks Boead for the nice images, it is a very instructive lesson, one image worh a thousands words.
The CAT 5 is a very thin wire, looks good for tube amp wiring or interconnect.
Regards,  Gustavo

FullRangeMan

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Re: Secrets of Tube Amps Revelated!!
« Reply #34 on: 1 Jun 2010, 03:27 pm »
Live and learn... just know that regulated heating is mandatory to Direct Heating Tubes in Hi-Fi amps, guitar amps need not apply.

beeah

Re: Secrets of Tube Amps Revelated!!
« Reply #35 on: 1 Jun 2010, 03:41 pm »
Live and learn... just know that regulated heating is mandatory to Direct Heating Tubes in Hi-Fi amps.

Mandatory?  I respectfully disagree.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Secrets of Tube Amps Revelated!!
« Reply #36 on: 2 Jun 2010, 02:08 am »
Mandatory?  I respectfully disagree.
I mean said obligatory for sound quality purposes, If not the noises, surges etc of the public AC mains can reach the anode and speakers.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Secrets of Tube Amps Revelated!!
« Reply #37 on: 2 Jun 2010, 02:19 am »
Mandatory?  I respectfully disagree.
Any special reason?   Lower cost not worth.

rnxrx

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Re: Secrets of Tube Amps Revelated!!
« Reply #38 on: 13 Jun 2010, 11:06 pm »
Yes, and CAT 5e Plenum is a solid core type.
Most CAT cables contain groups of stranded wire, Plenum are solid core. Its cheap and don’t think CAT6 is better because of its increased bandwidth ability, its not in my opinion.

Not to be rude, but this just isn't the case.   Plenum rating refers -only- to the composition of the jacket of the cable.  The idea is that a cable rated to be run in a plenum (e.g. HVAC vents, for example) won't start producing toxic gases until a somewhat higher temperature than a standard (i.e. non plenum rated) jacket.  Stranded and solid core wiring appears with plenum or non-plenum rated cabling. 

Also - the assumptions you're making about the prevalence / use of stranded vs solid-core aren't really consistent either.  Stranded cabling is seen most often when purchasing pre-made patch cables.  Most bulk cable (e.g. 1000' rolls used for structured wiring) is solid core.  Solid core cabling has somewhat better electrical properties for long runs but is also somewhat less flexible.  Stranded cabling, in contrast, is both more flexible and longer-lasting in environments where the cable is typically kinked up, repeatedly coiled/uncoiled, etc (i.e. under one's desk, in one's bag, etc).

The various CAT-X cables are specifications which dictate, among other things, the numbers of twists per inch as well as other minimum electrical and physical characteristics of the cable itself.  It also specifies the particulars of termination.   I won't comment on the correlation between the rating of a cable and applicability in analog audio applications but would tend to agree with you that for most purposes the distinction between, say, cat5 and cat6 probably don't amount to much in this sort of context.  The big electrical wins tend to come for equipment that are using common mode noise suppression (i.e. Ethernet switches / NIC's), which isn't really the case for situations where all of the cables ended up twisted together to provide a single conductor (..or a pair of conductors, for that matter). 

benie

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Re: Secrets of Tube Amps Revelated!!
« Reply #39 on: 27 Jun 2010, 01:34 am »
" Another one: 220Volts mains line/gear is always better than 110/120V(this is not a secret, everybody knows it)."


  I do know that alot of countries that use 220-240 etc, the power is balanced power, 120 volts on the hot line and 120 volts for the net line, for 240 volts.
 In countries with 120 volts, the power is not balanced, it has 120 volts on the hot only.


 Some people, myself included use use Balanced power cond. or transformer and transforms 120 volts to Balanced power with 60 volts on hot and 60 volts on net.

 Alot of components will sound better on balanced power.

This is the reason why countries with 220-240 volts may have a bit of a free upgrade as alot of Countries that employ 220-240, it will be balanced power!