[Alexdad54]

Hi,
I have pretty well finished assembling my first mid-fi system and it has ended up virtually all-tube. The only exception  (apart from theTT and Nak cassette deck) is the CD player which is a heavily modded Sony PS-1 with a PS Power Punch C-7 cord and Furutech fuse. It sounds great but I'm hankering for something a bit more high-end. The PS-1 feeds a Mapletree Audio Ultra 4SE preamp and an Assemblage ST-40 (a DIY Anthem One) amp and Salk ST's. I also have a MHDT Havana DAC hooked up to an Asus 1410 netbook for my lossless files. The system has all-Grover cabling.

My question is whether a tubed CD player will be too much of a good thing? I am looking at a used EE Minimax tubed cdp but can't help  wondering if I should stick to a SS CD player and let the other components provide the tube influence.

Note: I seem to be sensitive to digital sharpness which is why I dropped my Audio Alchemy XDP&DTI in favour of the Havana.
I welcome any and all opinions!

[rpf]

Haven't you answered your own question by using the Havana DAC?

Tubes rule. Matched carefully, an all tube system is not too much of a good thing at all. I have one, including an Havana with upgraded caps which rivals or beats much more expensive tube and SS CDPs I've had here.

[Alexdad54]

Haven't you answered your own question by using the Havana DAC?

Tubes rule. Matched carefully, an all tube system is not too much of a good thing at all. I have one, including an Havana with upgraded caps which rivals or beats much more expensive tube and SS CDPs I've had here.

Actually the Havana (which like you also has upgraded caps) is for my already ripped files stored on an external HDD via the netbook and Foobar. My interest in another CD player is because I'm not really inclined to rip the other 200+ CD's that I have thus the question about the merits of a tubed vs. non-tubed cdp into my system......

[toobluvr]

If done right, tubes everywhere (including cdp) is not a negative.  That is my preferred way and for years I did just that and it was very satisfying.  Certainly, if your tube gear has an excessively vintage tube flavor -- that is, sludgy, thick and veiled -- that is not a good thing.  But in general, modern tubes don't sound like that.

BTW, at current prices that Minimax cdp is a smoking value.  I had one for awhile and it is quite musical.  I have seen them recently for 350 to 400.  As far as one box players go, I don't know how you can do better for that money....maybe even more.

If you wanna spend just a bit more on a tubed player, look into Audio Aero Prima, Cary 308-T, and Metronome CD-2V Signature.  I have owned all of them and they are excellent. 

[Alexdad54]

Thanks Toobluvr, in fact the Minimax I'm looking at is $400 with an extra set of tubes included. Not a large investment and prbably eminently resellable if required....
Re the sound, I haven't finished running in the system yet and am still waiting for my Grover speaker cables. I am planning to then run the Isotek cd for a week, which means that right now  I can't really assess if it is veiled or thick. I did play JJ Cale's "Okie" on the PS-1 the other day though and was shocked at how good it sounded so maybe I'm heading in the right direction.....
The Cary 308T is going for around $1200-$1400 used and the Audio Aero Prima Mk II about $950,..."just a bit more"... I am tempted by the Prima....

[toobluvr]

Of course, it is all subjective and taste, and how gear synergizes.  One man's thick and slow is another man's just right.  Hard to say from afar what is right for someone else.   You just gotta try it!     

[toobluvr]

If you wanna stay in the budget SS domain for cdp, look into Opera 120 linear or Resolution Audio CD-55.   I have owned both and they are both smooth and pretty much devoid of digital nasties.  I found the Opera a bit more open and present sounding, and it's non-oversampling presentation was sweet.  But they are often plagued by operational glitches and annoyances.   The CD-55 sounded just a touch dark and shut in to me.  But it had the advantage of remote analog volume control.  Current used prices for both are in the 500 to 700 range.

[rpf]

Actually the Havana (which like you also has upgraded caps) is for my already ripped files stored on an external HDD via the netbook and Foobar. My interest in another CD player is because I'm not really inclined to rip the other 200+ CD's that I have thus the question about the merits of a tubed vs. non-tubed cdp into my system......

So why not just connect the Havana with a digital IC to your existing CDP or to a "new" transport? I can't imagine any inexpensive CDP, tube or SS, is going to sound near as good.

[toobluvr]

So why not just connect the Havana with a digital IC to your existing CDP or to a "new" transport? I can't imagine any inexpensive CDP, tube or SS, is going to sound near as good.

Hi Rob,

Having never owned the Havana, I can't comment on it directly.  However, I did own it's brother -- the Paradisea.  I enjoyed that DAC very much, but to my ears it was not any "better" than any of the one box players I have mentioned here.  (I connected it via digital output of all my cd players).  Matter of fact,  I sold the Paradisea before I sold any of the other players, and I still have the Metronome in my main system!  So take from that what you will.

I have no idea how the Havana compares to the Paradisea.  If it is significantly better, then you may very well be correct.   Then again,  it is quite possible that I have a tin ear!   

[Alexdad54]

So why not just connect the Havana with a digital IC to your existing CDP or to a "new" transport? I can't imagine any inexpensive CDP, tube or SS, is going to sound near as good.

Ummm.. because the Sony PS-1 has no digital output (thanks John!).  I do also have a currently defunct Rotel RCD-971 (still waiting for the parts to arrive to do my first DYI repair) so no go until I can fix it (also how would I hook up two sources to the Havana without pulling out cables every time? Grover cables are extremely tight...).
All this to say that I am still probably going to have to move up the line.....

[toobluvr]

Ummm.. because the Sony PS-1 has no digital input.

Dave...you would need a digital output to run it into your Havana.

[rpf]

Hi Rob,

Having never owned the Havana, I can't comment on it directly.  However, I did own it's brother -- the Paradisea.  I enjoyed that DAC very much, but to my ears it was not any "better" than any of the one box players I have mentioned here.  (I connected it via digital output of all my cd players).  Matter of fact,  I sold the Paradisea before I sold any of the other players, and I still have the Metronome in my main system!  So take from that what you will.

I have no idea how the Havana compares to the Paradisea.  If it is significantly better, then you may very well be correct.   Then again,  it is quite possible that I have a tin ear!   

The Havana is better than the Paradisea, plus Alexdad has upgraded caps as I do. You know some of the players I've had here and I'm happier with the Havana. To each his own, of course, and no, you don't have tin ears. However, I found the Cary 308T (and the 303-300) to sound slow and sludgy in the systems I heard them in, including, in the latter case, mine.

There's a switch and a Toslink input between the RCA outputs and the SPDIF digital input. How could there not be room for your Grover cables? Unless you're talking about the space between the USB and SPDIF inputs? There is significant space there as well. 

[Alexdad54]

Hi Rob,
Maybe I'm confusing the issue here. I was actually asking how I would be able to hook up 2 sources simultaneously to the Havana  if they are both using spdif outputs, i.e. the CDP and the netbook (I have an M2Tech HiFace USB to SPDIF converter on the netbook). The Grover cables are very tight and if I wanted to swap between the sources often I would have to swap the cable as well, no?
I suppose I could use some sort of switch but that's not really ideal either....

[toobluvr]

However, I found the Cary 308T (and the 303-300) to sound slow and sludgy in the systems I heard them in....

I need the sludge....to mask the digital nasties!   

[rpf]

Hi Rob,
Maybe I'm confusing the issue here. I was actually asking how I would be able to hook up 2 sources simultaneously to the Havana  if they are both using spdif outputs, i.e. the CDP and the netbook (I have an M2Tech HiFace USB to SPDIF converter on the netbook). The Grover cables are very tight and if I wanted to swap between the sources often I would have to swap the cable as well, no?
I suppose I could use some sort of switch but that's not really ideal either....

Oh!  You're right, you can't without switching cables. I assumed you were going straight USB into the Havana. 

[rpf]

I need the sludge....to mask the digital nasties!   

That's why I've converted to NOS DAC chips. No nasties (and no sludge, depending upon implementation of course), but admittedly a touch rolled off up top. A fair trade off for me, especially given the increased coherency and flow.   

[toobluvr]

I hear ya Rob.  That's the same trade-off I typically make as well.

[Alexdad54]

Oh!  You're right, you can't without switching cables. I assumed you were going straight USB into the Havana. 

Hmmm, had a brainwave and thought I'd ask about it - is it feasible to use my Oppo 983H universal player as a transport for redbook and feed it into the Havana via a transparent switch for the two S/PDIF sources (netbook and Oppo) as I understand the toslink is not very good.
The other option of course is till to go for a much better cdp or to still use the Oppo as a transport and spend the $$$ on another Havana or similar DAC. Is this a viable idea?

[roscoeiii]

Why not try a cheap Toslink cable (monoprice maybe, or abuse Radio Shack's 30 day return policy) from the Oppo and compare it to other inputs into the DAC? Sometimes the differences are very minor, other times there is a clear winner. I've had good luck with an Oppo as transport.

[Alexdad54]

Good idea!  The only other option to pursue this idea is to use a product like the Inday DA4X-R 4-way S/PDIF switcher and I don't know if that item would have a negative impact on SQ.......