[jonwb]

Hey guys, looks like you are all having fun on ur bikes.  I've been meaning to chime in, but too lazy I guess!  I did have a couple comments on jack's post a few days about setting some goals w/ his training. 

First let me say jack that I admire your determination and competitive spirit.  I tend to be the same way w/ stuff like this.  Sometimes tho a (rhetorical) thought occurs to me,  "what the heck are you doing???".  Its a nice day out, I'm out on the road, its a lovely day, and for some reason I'm pushing myself along at an avg heart rate of 155-160 (I'm 43).  Kinda makes me laugh at myself really, but I pedal on. 

re: your goal of a solo 5hr century... GOOD LUCK!    Certainly training and decent equipment are important parts of achieving such goals, but frankly even if I quit my job just to prepare for that one thing I don't think I have have the aerobic capacity to achieve that milestone.  (Even w/ a few rest stops)

I know its not the end-all measure of one's fitness level, but I have used AVG speed as a way to understand my fitness level for years now.  My rides are almost always solo and are always out and back (generally a loop of some sort), so wind should even out (sorta) and net elevation change is the same ride to ride.  One thing I've learned over the years is that upping your AVG speed even one or two MPH is a tough challenge.  At my best (a few years ago) my target was to do my 20mi ride in an hour.  I hit that maybe 5 or 6 times, but it required me being at the top of my game.  I could never hold that pace for a longer ride.  Last year I had a couple rides that were just over 19MPH, but I knew that getting to 20MPH was not gonna happen.  This year I've not been able to train consistently enough so I'm struggling to get solidly in the 18's.

So, I tip my hat to you.  I can tell that, like me, you bust you butt on your rides.  I am a bit lighter than you (165lbs), but based on the speeds you discuss, I think you are a stronger rider than I am.  And you certainly put more miles in than I do.  So best of luck in your quest.  I for one appreciate the challenge of a "regular" (non-racer) guy trying to hit that pace riding solo.

Below, is a typical training ride for me from a few days ago:

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/96688049

[jackman]

Hi Jon, thank you so much for sharing your comments and your ride information.  A strange thing happened tonight.  I went for a 40+ mile training ride and felt pretty good.  Earlier in the week I had root canal and oral surgery (my third in as many weeks ) and was on a round of strong antibiotics.  I had a very ban infection in my gums (on one side), an abcess (sp?) and needed several root canals. 

Although the root canal procedures were not fun, they weren't that bad.  Since the infection cleared up, I feel great!  And much stronger on the bike.   Here are my numbers for today's solo ride.  Fought wind for much of the ride and got slightly lost but it's my best average ever for a 40+ mile ride and I had to slow down several times for intersections and traffic.  I don't use the auto-off feature on the Garmin so my numbers are what they are. 

I finised with an 18.6 mph average over 41 miles and took it relatively easy over the last 5 miles or so.  We have an 80 mile ride planned this Saturday and I want to make sure I have the legs for it.  The group I'm planning to ride with is very fast so I should finish with a good speed if I can hang on a fast guy's wheel long enough.   

If these guys expect me to pull, they have another thing coming.  Cheers!

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/97577049

PS - one thing that slowed me down was a really sore little toe on my right foot.  It only hurts while I ride so it must be fit related.  I hope my Sidi shoes aren't too narrow.  If they are, I'll bring them to the shoe guy to get stretched!  No new shoes in my budget. 

[Levi]

I guess the intervals are working.  You increased your FTP in only a few days.  Congrats! 

[jackman]

I guess the intervals are working.  You increased your FTP in only a few days.  Congrats! 

Thank you Levi, and thanks again to everyone for the encouragement.  I have a long way to go.  Need to lose some weight because it's killing my feet, pushing around 200 lbs for several hours.  It's too early for the intervals to be helping but I think not having a throbbing infection in my gum is having a profound affect.  That tooth was jacked up! 

Take care and show some ride data!  It gives me inspiration.

Cheers,
J

[Levi]

It may take awhile to post my ride data. 

I have to figure out how to trick the computer so I can have a very high ave mph. 

Thank you Levi, and thanks again to everyone for the encouragement.  I have a long way to go.  Need to lose some weight because it's killing my feet, pushing around 200 lbs for several hours.  It's too early for the intervals to be helping but I think not having a throbbing infection in my gum is having a profound affect.  That tooth was jacked up! 

Take care and show some ride data!  It gives me inspiration.

Cheers,
J

[jonwb]

Hey that IS a good ride Jack!  I think if I had to deal w/ all that dental work I'd look like your avatar!

One of my issues w/ training is getting the time to do some decent length rides.  For me a 40+mi ride IS a long ride.  I've been trying to squeeze in more miles lately by commuting to work 2 or 3 times / week.  I use my old mountain bike.  Its about 26mi round trip and of course I bust my hump the whole ride.  Unfortunately I have to negotiate some city streets to get to my office.  its not too bad in the morning, but going home I have more of the dreaded left turns and there are more cars on the road.  I have to be really careful to make sure I don't do something stupid.  Reminds me of the carpenter saying, "measure twice, cut once".  Only for us its, "look twice, turn once".  on a bike you don't fit in like you do in a car.  You have to carefully assess how you are going to get from the road you're on to the road you want to be on.  it gets tough when you're hot and tired.  For my regular training rides on my road bike I have the liberty of riding in areas w/ fewer cars.  Much less stressful...

anyway, ride on guys!

[jackman]

Levi, the auto stop (I think that's what it's called) is the thing that stops your clock when you slow down or stop the bike.  It messes with power meter, which is the real reason I don't use it. 

Jon, I work out of my home so riding to work is not an option.  Your comments remind me that should use the time saved by working out of my home to ride for at least an hour a day (when I'm in town).  Traffic around here is pretty bad so we take extra precautions and ride early and in rural areas when possible.  40+ miles feels like a lot to  me but these guys in my group are crazy and always want to push it.  My legs and lungs feel pretty good but I need to do something about my toe.  For some reason, it really hurts after 30 miles or so.  I don't think it's 100% my shoes.  Feels like my foot is not flat on the pedal and putting pressure on the outside of my foot. 

I'll keep everyone posted on the resolution.  Hoping to get to the fitter later today or this weekend.  Day off today (PTO) and I'm hoping to go for an easy ride to keep my legs loose and experiment with fixes to my toe pain problem.

Cheers,

Jack

[jonwb]

Jack,

Sorry to hear about your toe problems... My shoes are a bit on the tight side as well.  One thing I do (especially on longer rides) is wear "thinner" socks.  They are the short kind, but just thin.  This actually give my feet/toes just a bit more room and helps my comfort level.  I find thick socks aren't really req'd for me when I bike 'cause you tend not to get too much movement of your foot/feet within the shoe (compared to running or even walking).  Just an idea...

Best of luck,
Jon

[JoshK]

I have pretty wide feet.  I just don't tightening the toe strap very much and the middle one only slightly.  That seems to work by and large for me. 

[jackman]

Hey guys, thanks for your comments and suggestions.  I have an update!

The pain in my toe was not because my shoes were too tight.  The toe box of the Sidi's are notoriously narrow but I still have enough room and should not be having this pain in the little toe.  I noticed when I was sprinting and standing on the pedals, that my foot felt like it was leaning towards the outside of my foot - forcing all of my weight on the little toe area.  To correct this, I added a thin piece of plastic to the outside of my cleat - between the cleat and shoe.  This made my foot contact the pedal squarely and alieviated the pressure on the outside of my foot when I applied power to the pedals.  I also swapped out the thin Sidi insoles with some custom insoles.  The new insoles are a bit thicker but I was able to account for the difference by loosening the velcro straps.  Rode a relatively brisk 66.5 miles today and my feet feel great!  No toe pain (or foot pain) at all, and I feel like I can put more power to the pedals.  Averaged 18.5mph but the first 30 miles were scorching, by my personal standards.   

I'm going to get a fit kit to replace the plastic (an old credit card cut to the size of a quarter with a hole punched in the middle) eventually but this simple solution worked perfectly.  If my rides were less than 50 miles, I would not have needed this solution.  In my experience, most fit related problems do not surface until you are in the saddle for 4+ hours or on longer rides.  On shorter rides, you can usually live with some slight discomfort.  On long rides, the discomfort can become real pain and eventually injury. 

Here is a fit website with some tools and wedges that pretty much accomplish a similar task.  I have no doubt they are better than my credit card solution but after today's long ride, I am happy with the results of my experiment.  Ride results below along with fit tools website.  Cheers!

http://www.bikefit.com/products.php

Ride results from today (heart-rate info is bogus because I didn't wear a HR strap):

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/97929986

[jonwb]

Hey dudes!  I hope everyone is finding some time to get out on two wheels.  Glad to hear you are getting that toe/shoe thing sorted out Jack.

I have a ride coming up the first weekend in August for the MS Society.  I will again be shooting to do the double century (century on Sat, and a century on Sun).  So, I've been trying to ramp up my mileage.  The previous two years that I've done this ride, I've really suffered from about mile 70-75 and on.  Usually, my butt starts hurting, my hands start aching, my head feels like it weighs a 100 pounds and my legs run all out of juice.  Other than that its lots of fun!    But I keep on pedaling...

I wish it weren't so uncomfortable, and I'm sure more longer rides is the key to preparing.  Just tuff to find the time.  Anywho, I did a long (for me) solo ride yesterday afternoon.  It was more or less an out and back to a well known church out here called Holy Hill.  No, its not just a clever name.  Lots of climbing...    Short of traffic stops, I only did a brief stop at the church to dry my head a bit and refill my water bottle (yes, just one). 





http://connect.garmin.com/activity/98570201

I really wanted to hit a 17MPH avg speed, and as you can see I was able to just eek that out.  Bad part was how uncomfortable I was at the end of the ride.  Mostly my butt and my neck were hurting.  Legs weren't too bad.  I think I just need more multi-hour rides.  Gotta find the time, or I'll be really hurtin' come August. 

That's my report from Wisconsin! 

[LadyDog]

Pretty picture Jon. 

Take it you have tried different saddles to ease the but pain?

[jonwb]

Pretty picture Jon. 

Take it you have tried different saddles to ease the but pain?

Yeah and I wish I'd have taken it!  I fished that off the internet just to show you guys what a cool building / setting it is up there.  My current "smart" phone takes terrible pics 

I've not really tried too many saddles ladydog.  I'm a bit cheap, plus I'm wondering if its the saddle or me just not being used to multi-hour rides (or a little of both).  My mountain / commuter bike has a really bad seat (doesn't deserve to be called a saddle), so I was thinking of getting a new saddle for my road bike and shuffling the current seat over to the commuter.

This is the saddle I was looking at:



https://www.nashbar.com/bikes/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10053&catalogId=10052&productId=175132

Nothing too fancy (or expensive ($35)).  Pretty light at 220g.  Seems to get good ratings...  Might be worth a shot?

[Levi]

That's lots of climbing Jon. 

Saddles are personal thing.  Likewise with Bib shorts and padding that come with it.

Nevertheless, good ave speed. 

[jackman]

Jon, I could understand trying to save a buck on tires or bars but saddles and shoes are a different matter. Contact points can make the difference between a comfy ride and a literal pain. I'm not saying you have to spend a bundle but don't buy a saddle/seat without trying it out first. Specialized has a good program where you can try several saddle styles and shapes to find the one that works for you. You don't have to spend a lot to get a great saddle, just make sure it fits.

I'd never advise buying a saddle without trying it first to make sure it fits. It's hard to tell by just looking at it or measuring it. You have to sit on it. Specialized has a tool that allows you to measure your sit bones to determine saddle suitability.

Beautiful picture and great ride!  If you enjoy cycling, you need to find a proper saddle that fits you right. Pain and numbness can lead to damage.

[jonwb]

Good tips... thxs.  I've actually been fairly lucky over the years compared to the stories I hear from other riders.  I've never had any issues w/ numbness or chaffing for that matter.  Just "soreness" if that makes any sense.  On long 45mi+ rides I get to feeling like i weigh 400lbs sitting on that seat!  I'm sure it has something to do w/ the fact that my legs are pushing as hard.  And like I mentioned before, maybe its just a matter of finding the time to do more longer rides.

I don't mind spending some $$ on a saddle if I can have some confidence in it being "the one".  Perhaps I will look at the local bike shops and see what they offer.  I would definitely prefer a more scientific approach.

thanks again!

PS: Here's today's commute...  terrible luck w/ the lights coming home! 

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/98798286

[jackman]

Great ride Jon!  I hope I don't sound like a know-it-all because I'm new to biking and most of what I learned, I learned by doing things the wrong way!  I had the wrong saddle (seat!), wrong fit, wrong shoes, etc.  Most of the fit related problems I had did not surface on rides less than 40 miles.  On 40+ mile rides, little issues tend to create big problems.  On 100+ mile rides, little issues can cause serious injuries, as I found out.  My IT band was hurt for months after my first century on a poorly fit bike. 

[tybee]

It has been awhile since I participated in this thread so,

Hi, I am tybee from team Old Farts, and I chose Sram.  That is Sram Force for my new Lynskey R230 titanium frame that should arrive early next month for a century ride, BRAT, and a few rides up north in Ladydog country. 

My custom 25 year old steel frames will now go into retirement, but they have helped get me back into shape this riding season.  When I left the north country to move to Tennessee over 20 years ago, I was riding lots of centuries and a few doubles each year in the Indiana, Michigan, and Ohio flatlands.  Yes, Jackman, I was riding 5 hour centuries and 10.5 hour doubles in my 40s. Now that I am in my 60s, I just hope to average 17 -18 mph for a century after a 20 plus year layoff.  My 25 mile workweek training ride here in Tennessee has lots of rollers which when attacked on the uphill provides good interval training.  I am beginning to get enough conditioning to hang with a racing group for about 20 miles on the weekends.  I find that I can maintain speed in the flats, but I am not ready for the climbs that are normal for every 40-70 mile weekend ride here.  Unlike NC, we do not have quite the climbs that BikeWNC can experience in the Smokies, but I did ride a mile and half climb on the 4th of July that was a 9.8% grade. 

I am very happy to be back in cycling having lost 25 pounds since last August with my blood pressure back to 120 over 55 and a resting pulse of 55. What I missed about cycling was all of the great people that I have befriended over the years.  I have befriended a few other older guys here In Tennessee, as Jackman would call us, to join on a trip next year to bike the entire Natchez Trace of 444 miles from Nashville to Natchez, MS. We plan to split the trip into 70-80 mile days staying in B&Bs that cater to cyclists along the way.  The Trace, as we call it, is a cyclist’s dream, with good roads, 50 mph speed limit for cars, and no stop signs or stoplights. One may see more wild turkeys on this ride than automobiles. 

[jmc207]

Tybee,

Interestingly, I've got a neighbor who is also training for the BRAT, though he's no where as fast as you. He's now in his mid-60's and just started riding about 5 years ago when his knees could no longer take running.

"The Trace" is only about 25 miles from our location and yesterday, on a lark, decided to drive over to the Mathiston, MS entrance to check out the rolling hills as I had not been on that section in quite a while. North of Mathiston is currently closed for an 10 mile stretch due to the April tornado damage. I had no idea of how bad the damage was until I watched the video on this page: http://www.natcheztracetravel.com/natchez-trace-mississippi/houston-mantee-ms/629-natchez-trace-parkway-closure-from-milepost-2043-to-2145.html.

I too am just now starting to ride again after being out of it since the early 90's. Did part of the Big Dam Bridge Century in Little Rock last fall and am planning to do that one again along with the Handy100.com ride in Alabama which also involves the Trace. This W.C. Handy Music Festival ride was the first century I did back in 1985 and I have fond memories of it.   

[tybee]

JMC,

My wife and I visited the Trace over Memorial Day weekend and saw lots of damage from the spring tornados in MS.  This trip served purposes, to get away and try some B&B on or near the Trace and to plan next year's ride.  The best times to avoid the heat are between April to mid May or September.  If you start in Nashville, you will have more descending than climbing at the expense of headwinds.  I still think we will head south from Nashville to Natchez. It seems to flatten out more as get past Tupelo.

I chatted with a retired Cat 1 racer who owned a bike shop in Tupelo, and he provided alot of good advice about tackling the Trace in a week.  We also chatted racing, and I discovered that I saw him crash in a criterium in Indianapolis in the mid 80s.  He wanted to conitnue riding but they forced him into an ambulance for a ride to hospital. He was originally from West Virginia and discovered MS when racing and retired there.   

There seems to be a nice size group of middle TN cyclists riding BRAT this year.  I am looking forward to it.