Bicycling On-the-Road

viggen · « **Reply #500 on:** 2 Apr 2011, 01:02 am »

Quote from: AB on 1 Apr 2011, 10:48 pm

I haven't tried the 6700 but they look to be very close to the DA wheels. I'm sure they'll be great. Still, you should find a shop that will let you demo a set of silly wheels like Zipp 404 or the HEDs. Just for grins.

You can usually find wheel demos at cycling events too.

Yes, from what I gathered, the 6700 Ultegra seems to be close enough to the 7850 DA as well as the HED Ardennes in areas that matter to me. Thanks for sharing your comments. They gave me lots to think about helping me come to a conclusion.

sandbagger · « **Reply #501 on:** 3 Apr 2011, 02:48 pm »

Viggen

I am not crazy about getting the absolute lightest components as I could loose many multiples of what ever amount of weight I could take off my bike.

When I need something new because I wore it out like the BB/Crank last year, thats when I get something nice.

Also train with the heavy stuff, and if you race, then put the light stuff on then, you will be faster, just like weight training.

Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades. - Eddy Merckx

jackman · « **Reply #502 on:** 3 Apr 2011, 04:32 pm »

Hi Sandbagger,
I agree that the lightest gear is not necessarily always the best choice. Some extremely lightweight gear could have durability issues or weight limits. However, riding heavier equipment will not improve your fitness or make you faster when you ride lighter equipment (like swinging a leaded bat will make your swing faster when you switch to a light bat). Riding a heavier bike will just mean you will be slower at the same wattage output versus a lighter bike. Training intervals will make you faster and logging lots of miles will improve your endurance, but riding a heavy bike will do nothing but make you slower (although not as much as most people think unless you are riding hills) at the same wattage output. I only learned this recently. A power meter will change the way you view these things.

Riding an more aero bike will be faster than a bike of the exact same weight but the difference will depend on wind conditions and how fast you are going.

Although I like lots of their components, I'm not sure about Shimano wheels. they are durable but I think you can do much better for the money. For around 600 bucks, you could get a nice set of custom wheels with White Industry hubs, Sapim CX-ray spokes, etc. These wheels would be a step up from Dura Ace wheels for half the price.

AB - For some reason Shimano wheels are heavier than they should be for their pricepoint. They are solid but too heavy. For the money, Neuvation wheels are a better value. I have a set and they are very well made and lightweight. I'd get the Neuvations and buy a Garmin Edge, and some Conti GP4000's with the money you save versus those Shimano wheels.

viggen · « **Reply #503 on:** 3 Apr 2011, 06:08 pm »

Hi Sandbagger:

I gained 20lbs the last two years probably thanks to a very busy schedule (knee surgery, mba, marriage, full x job). I've been biking 4-5 days a week for almost a month. I am up to 150 miles/wk this past week. And, I've lost 10lbs thus far while gaining quite a bit of leg muscles while still developing my back and shoulders.

I don't think shaving weight off my bike will help me as I have more weight off my body that I stand to lose. I am mainly looking for a bit less rolling and wind resistance. I like to continue my riding routine while adding on mileage weekly but windy days do sap a lot of energy out of me. My current wheel set just seems like the ideal candidate for an upgrade I deem it to be my bike's weakest link.

I think in most other cases, I wouldn't be upgrading anything. It's just that I would like to achieve my fitness goal quickly and perhaps it's wishful thinking that a new wheel set will help me get there. I had thought that I should train on heavier wheels as a reason not to upgrade as I am still trying to build up strength. But, I think Jackman made a good case against this.

I did swing fungo bats and weighted iron clubs when I played baseball and golf though. Not particularly helped me gain strength but helped me maintain form as I built up intertia to hit "through" the ball.

viggen · « **Reply #504 on:** 3 Apr 2011, 06:20 pm »

Hi Jackman:

I just took a look at Neuvation website. My browser's history tells me I've been here before. But, I don't remember seeing those prices before. They are currently on sale at drastic reductions! A set of their "aero" wheels are only $258 now. Their reviews on RBR is quite good too.

Unfortunately, I've already placed order with Chain Reaction Cycles for a set of the 6700. I guess it's not too late to cancel but think I will just stick with it. I like the looks of the 6700, it allows for tubeless tires, and the price I am paying for the Shimano is only $125 premium over the Neuvation.

After I receive the 6700 wheel set, I am thinking about installing a new Ultegra cassette on it. This way I will have two complete wheel sets with one used for back up. Otherwise, I have to take the 105 cassette off my old wheel to put one the new one. Performance Bike has the Ultegra cassette for $69 now (regularly $99). I hope this extra investment makes sense.

jackman · « **Reply #505 on:** 3 Apr 2011, 07:24 pm »

Hey Viggen,
I think you will be happy with the Shimano wheels and it sounds like you got a great deal on them. I thought you paid $650 for them, which seems to be the going rate. At that price, I think you can do better, if you paid $500 or less, you did very well. The Shimano wheels, like all Shimano gear, are solid and well built. Regarding that cassette, I have a 105 on my bike at the moment and it works fine. My next one might be SRAM or Ultegra but I'm more concerned about the gear ratios than anything else. Shimano cassettes are priced right and they hold up well.

If I don't spring for the high $$$ SRAM Red Powerdome cassette, I may get the new Apex because it has a wide gear ratio and I need some help on hills. My current cassette is a 12-25 and I may switch to an 11-28 for my next one. It would allow me to stay in the big front ring most of the time, which I like. I cross chain more than I should but I don't mind replacing chains once or twice a year...chains are cheap and easy to install.

Cheers,

J

viggen · « **Reply #506 on:** 3 Apr 2011, 10:15 pm »

Thanks for the feedback, Jackman. Yah Chain Reaction seems to have very good prices on bike parts. They seem to sell cheap by doing away the retail packaging etc.. I am paying $385 shipped from UK. I think that's an amazing deal considering retail is $650 as you've mentioned, and that's not including tax and shipping.

I did some research and found that 105 and Ultegra cassettes are pretty much similar except 105 is steel, and Ultegra is aluminum which makes it 20 grams lighter but functionally identical to the 105. Performance Bike has the Ultegra $6 cheaper than the 105 now plus additional 10% off this weekend. I am going to place my order in a few.

The stock 105 cassette on my wheel now is 11-25. I am happy with it. I like staying on the big front ring too and am trying to work on staying on that ring even during the steepest parts of my rides.

Speaking of chains, I had no idea what chains were on my bike. I expected it to be whatever chain that is in the 105 group. Turns out to be a KMC DX10SC. Never heard of it so Googled it. Turns out to be what a lot of people seem to prefer it over the chains that come with SRAM and Dura Ace groups.

jackman · « **Reply #507 on:** 4 Apr 2011, 01:32 am »

Hey KMC makes awesome chains and lots of people at BF love them. My LBS stocks Shimano and SRAM and I had them put a new one when they tuned it up or I would have gone with KMC.

I'm not a weight weenie and have not tried a hollow pin chain but Ive heard nickle plated chains are more durable because they resist corrosion. I change my chains frequently so they don't have time to corrode.

You got a great deal on those wheels I think. My comments were based on the 650 price. Just make sure they have brass nipples.

On a side note, I rode in the worst wind I can recall yesterday. Only made it 30 miles but it was painful. My group did 70 and averaged over 17.7 mph for the ride. They are officially too fast for me. I'm officially on my Carmichael Power Training regiment, starting today. Need to get faster...

jackman · « **Reply #508 on:** 4 Apr 2011, 02:23 am »

Quote from: LadyDog on 23 Mar 2011, 03:27 am

Hey Jack,
Unfortunately is has been a bleak winter for me. A lot of work, which I guess is a good thing, but very little exercise and a half way decent tire around my mid-section because of.

Actually I've been fortunate to have less flat issues with tubulars than clinchers. And while I would not take a downhill corner at 45 mph on a un-glued tire, with reasonable care you can make it safely back home without the least bit of worry. Offer still stands, I'll send you some wheels to try out for a while.

Shameless plug, anyone looking for a nice crank, drop me a pm. NIB; Zipp 300, Campy Record, Campy Centaur(carbon)

Hi Jeff - have you done any riding lately? Also what size is that crankset and can you ease send a picture and details of the gear you have for sale along with pricing? I will check with my group to see if I can help sell your stuff.

Take care!

J

Dave G · « **Reply #509 on:** 4 Apr 2011, 02:11 pm »

Hey! Are any of you actually riding your bicycles? Aside from jackman's painful 30-miler over the weekend, it seems that all you've been doing is buying new equipment and chatting about it. What kind of a hobby is this where you seem to spend more time worrying about the equipment than actually using it?

Seriously, I'm just a hack occasional rider, but I really enjoy reading the riding reports, especially the ones with pictures, cycle computer readouts, and exotic locales (e.g., the Tour de Bronx).

My bike is an absolutely stock Marin Lucas Valley that I bought 6 or 7 years ago. I used it to commute for a while, but now it gets used only for weekend rides on bike paths in Northern Virginia where I live. Here's a picture from Marin's website:

Dave

Levi · « **Reply #510 on:** 4 Apr 2011, 02:45 pm »

It is good that you are riding your bike Dave.

I had been riding my bicycles over the winter. If there is snow on the road, I ride my mountain bike instead. I have ridden were my water bottle froze on me.

jackman · « **Reply #511 on:** 4 Apr 2011, 02:58 pm »

Hi Dave, welcome to the bike thread! Your bike looks perfect for the type of riding you do (bike paths, commuting, etc.). I have a similar bike that I hope to ride with my wife this summer (she does not share my enthusiasm...).

Road cycling with a group of fast riders is a completely different game (than casual riding or commuting). Riding hills or into 30 mph winds or riding long distances with a big group of riders at relatively fast speeds requires you to pay attention to details that do not exist in casual MUP riding. When you ride for 4-6 hours you have to pay attention to nutrition and hydration, bike fit, bike handling and safety, etc. It's also good to moniter your cadence and HR, and several guys in my group have power meters to measure and track their wattage output. These things are rarely an issue with a casual rider on a multi use path, but on long road rides with a large group, any onoe of these thngs can ruin your day or cause an injury.

For the record, I also rode on my trainer for an hour yesterday and on Friday evening. Riding on a trainer sucks and is 100x worse than my worst time on an actual bike, outside in the elements.

A large part of cycling is talking about gear. It's just the way it goes and I think this thread has featured more people actually riding than most of the discussions at Bicycleforums.net. I love that site but most of the threads in the "41" are about minute details of cycling (clothing, gear, computers, etc.) unrelated to actually riding. I've only been cycling for a short time (relative to the other people I know) but my primary interest is comfort and fit, and of course, getting out on the road and riding my bike.

I admit that my bike is nothing to look at but it's really comfortable and my fit is pretty good. I can ride for 6 or 7 hours at a time (as I did several times last year) without any pain or discomfort (if you don't count my knee injury which occured when I had a bad fit). For now, I'm only focusing on getting faster which means working hard on the bike (lots of hours and intervals) and losing weight. I think I gained a few pounds on my vacation last week and need to get back to work.

Dave G · « **Reply #512 on:** 4 Apr 2011, 04:05 pm »

Thanks for the welcome, Levi and Jackman. I hope it was obvious that I was just teasing about the gear discussions. After all, I'm a member in good standing of AudioCircle, where most of the discussion is about the gear rather than the music!

Dave

jackman · « **Reply #513 on:** 4 Apr 2011, 04:08 pm »

Guys dressed in spandex, talking about which shoes they should wear and which cream they should put on their butts...how can you not make fun!

Cheers, and welcome to the bike thread. Please keep us posted on your rides so I can feel guilty about not getting out enough.

J

LadyDog · « **Reply #514 on:** 6 Apr 2011, 03:32 am »

Guys let's not forget about the "shaving legs" discussion.

Hey Jack, hope all is well. I'll send you an email.

Extremely disappointed in myself this past year. Did not ride much last summer. Winter went to hell with work and other stuff. Which I guess is better than being unemployed as many are. But my beer belly is a harsh reality of complacity.

Welcome to the crowd Dave.

Spent many a day/year in an earlier life racing. Now I'm just a big "poser" with thankfully a somewhat disposable income to enjoy both my stereo and bike fixes.

viggen · « **Reply #515 on:** 6 Apr 2011, 06:09 am »

Quote from: jackman on 4 Apr 2011, 01:32 am

On a side note, I rode in the worst wind I can recall yesterday. Only made it 30 miles but it was painful. My group did 70 and averaged over 17.7 mph for the ride. They are officially too fast for me. I'm officially on my Carmichael Power Training regiment, starting today. Need to get faster...

Would you "cheat" by getting an aerobar? I just ordered a Profile Design T2+ DL. Never used an aerobar before so very curious to try one out.

I am going for a 60 mile ride tomorrow. It would be my farthest weather permitting.

jackman · « **Reply #516 on:** 8 Apr 2011, 03:30 pm »

Quote from: viggen on 6 Apr 2011, 06:09 am

Would you "cheat" by getting an aerobar? I just ordered a Profile Design T2+ DL. Never used an aerobar before so very curious to try one out.

I am going for a 60 mile ride tomorrow. It would be my farthest weather permitting.

Aerobars are not cheating. Some group rides will discourage aerobars because of safety concerns. On a traditional road bike, when using aerobars, it's often difficult to access brakes and you are more likely to crash if you have to access brakes quickly. We generally ride on country roads and there are very few fast stops so it's less of an issue. If you use them, just be careful around other riders and don't use them in a pack unless you are the lead rider. Some guys who use them in my group do a lot of solo riding during the week and aero bars are very helpful in this part of the country because we have some intense wind this time of year and during the winter.

jackman · « **Reply #517 on:** 8 Apr 2011, 03:40 pm »

Just got my new Powertap Pro+! I should say, just installed it on my bike. Haven't done any real riding (other than around the block) but it's pretty cool and works well with my Garmin Edge 500. The wheels are in perfect shape and they use DT Swiss Aerolite spokes, Kinlin rims, and the front hub is a really nice Neuvation. They are lighter than the Bontrager Race wheels that came with my bike!

I'm no weight weenie but after installing the wheels we put the bike on the Park digital scale and it weighed less than 17.5 lbs. Not bad considering the PT wheels are heavy and I have a very heavy fork with alloy steerer, and heavy handlebars. I could take almost a pound off the fork and be under 16 lbs with a new fork and race wheels. Not going to do it because it would not be worth the expense.

The Powertap wheels look great and I look forward to my new training program. Will keep you posted.

J

viggen · « **Reply #518 on:** 8 Apr 2011, 09:56 pm »

Quote from: jackman on 8 Apr 2011, 03:30 pm

Aerobars are not cheating. Some group rides will discourage aerobars because of safety concerns. On a traditional road bike, when using aerobars, it's often difficult to access brakes and you are more likely to crash if you have to access brakes quickly. We generally ride on country roads and there are very few fast stops so it's less of an issue. If you use them, just be careful around other riders and don't use them in a pack unless you are the lead rider. Some guys who use them in my group do a lot of solo riding during the week and aero bars are very helpful in this part of the country because we have some intense wind this time of year and during the winter.

Duly noted. Personally, I will only use it on straighter stretches when no one is around me. At least until after I gain full confidence in using them.

jackman · « **Reply #519 on:** 8 Apr 2011, 10:21 pm »

Quote from: viggen on 8 Apr 2011, 09:56 pm

Duly noted. Personally, I will only use it on straighter stretches when no one is around me. At least until after I gain full confidence in using them.

If you ride alone, aerobars are proabably a great idea. Riding with them in a group could take some getting used to but I have seen lots of guys do it. They used to be allowed in pro racing but were outlawed (by UOC) years back. They do work, and help you deal with wind. They also help you get into another position on the bike which would be useful on long rides. Someday I'd like to try them!