[baumer]

I lust after those Zipp 101's as well as the Dura-Ace C24's. I guess I should have let you know my price point. I'm looking at a set between $600.00-800.00.

What do you all think of the Mavic Ksyrium Elite's?

[jackman]

Those Zipps are very cool, and I lust after them. 

Baumer - if you are looking for new wheels, I would suggest the new wider 23mm rims.  Those Zipp 101's (I believe) are 23 mm but if they are outside your budget, you may want to check out other wheels made with 23mm rims.  These are available from HED (very nice), Kinlin and some of the other wheel companies.  You can do a search for the rational behind the wider profile but they are they are very popular for a number of reasons.  They are more aero because your 23mm tire sits flush against the side of the rim, like a tubular (rims typically more narrow than the tire and the gap this causes increases wind resistance.  No joke), also they have lower rolling resistance and people who have them say they corner better than similar narrow rims. 

My neighbor just built a set of HED rims and he loves them.  They are Powertap with DT Swiss front hubs and he is building a similar set with the new Zipp 404 rims next.  I'm buying his old set of Powertap Neuvation wheels.  Nothing fancy but I'm getting a good deal.

You asked for a low-cost recommendation and here you go.  I'd get a set of handmade wheels using HED or Velocity 23mm wide rims, Sapim CX-Ray spokes (or DT Swiss), brass nipples, and the new White Industries hubs, front and rear.  I think the White hubs are called H3's.  I know a local builder (mechanical engineer by day) who builds wheels for cheaper than I can buy the parts for and is well regarded among racing circles (including Cyclocross which he races) within your price range, probably on the lower end of your range for the wheels I described above. 

I believe Zipp uses Sapim spokes (spelling?) and they are highly regarded among wheel builders as are DT Swiss.  White Industries is also very highly regarded and their new hubs are sweet.  They are made in USA and very lightweight.  Here is the info for the wheelbuilder I mentioned.  His name is Rob and he is in Elgin IL.  I vouch for his reputation and his skill as a builder. 

http://www.psimet.com/

His carbon fiber clincher wheels start at $799 and are very well made.  I would take a pair of  handmade wheels with White hubs and Sapim spokes over those Ksyrium Elite's but Mavic wheels are nice also.  Handlaced wheels can be made to your specifications and riding conditions.  You can go lightweight (as long as you are lightweight) or extra-stout if you ride rough roads and are heavy.  Rob will ask you questions and recommend a wheel that meets your needs.  He is not a salesman and will not try to sell you something you don't need. 

Good luck,

J

[LadyDog]

There are a lot of nice wheels out there.  I'm old school, so I prefer tubulars.  Not been on a set of clinchers I like better.  Especially when it comes to the carbon wheels. 

Knock on wood, I've had better luck flat wise with tubbies too.  The 1/2 lb weight savings can't hurt too.   Other opinions may vary.

WNC, couldn't quite make out yours in the picture?  How do you like the S-Works?

[BikeWNC]

There are a lot of nice wheels out there.  I'm old school, so I prefer tubulars.  Not been on a set of clinchers I like better.  Especially when it comes to the carbon wheels. 

Knock on wood, I've had better luck flat wise with tubbies too.  The 1/2 lb weight savings can't hurt too.   Other opinions may vary.

WNC, couldn't quite make out yours in the picture?  How do you like the S-Works?

My wheels?  The front wheel is a DA 7850 24CL and the rear wheel is a DT Swiss PT wheel.  The Powertap wheel is very heavy at 1200g but I like the data.  I can replace it with the DA wheel if I want to save a pound. 

I like the Roubaix Sworks.  It's an easy handling bike, though the Tarmac is a better climber.  But I'm sure it's not the frame slowing me down.  I'd like to try the Roubaix SL3 frame to feel the difference from my SL2 but I'd rather not know, it's cheaper that way.  lol

Lots of climbing this past week.  I probably overreached some but the weather was so nice I just had to keep getting out on the bike.  Hopefully it will start some much needed weight loss.  It was a long cold winter here too.

[jackman]

Jeff, someday I'd like to try toos but there is too much glass on the roads I travel and the thought of changing a flat o. A tubular wheel scares me.  I can knock out a change on a clincher in a couple minutes. Have you tried Conty Gp4000 tires?  They are soft riding and relatively durable. Lots of cuts in mine but nothing major.

Have you been riding a lot this year?

[LadyDog]

Hey Jack,
Unfortunately is has been a bleak winter for me.  A lot of work, which I guess is a good thing, but very little exercise and a half way decent tire around my mid-section because of. 

Actually I've been fortunate to have less flat issues with tubulars than clinchers.  And while I would not take a downhill corner at 45 mph on a un-glued tire, with reasonable care you can make it safely back home without the least bit of worry.  Offer still stands, I'll send you some wheels to try out for a while.

Shameless plug, anyone looking for a nice crank, drop me a pm.  NIB; Zipp 300, Campy Record, Campy Centaur(carbon)

[viggen]

I have a question regarding upgrading wheels on my road bike.  For about the same money, would you upgrade only the front wheel of a higher grade or upgrade both front and back of a lower grade wheel set?

I am looking at Shimano 6700 (set) and 7850 (front only) and am contemplating on spending only $300-400.

My bike came with Shimano R500.  I have no complaints.  It's durable and spins nice.  But, I keep reading about how heavy and slow these wheels are.  I have no experience with higher end wheels, so not sure what bang for the buck return I will be getting or which configuration will yield the higher return.

I am riding about 120 miles a week and headwind is probably the most difficult thing to deal with in my area.  My logic is that the front wheel cuts through headwinds, so upgrading the front with a higher grade might yield better performance?  I've read the 7850 is very aerodynamic. 

I find the wheels at these two links.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=25969
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=40568

[Levi]

The old wheel dilema.  Checking the spec on the Shimano, the 23mm rim height is not aero.  I would go at least 30mm rim height at the minimum at the front and rear. It may look silly if you only have one aero wheel in the front vs the rear.  It will definitely work without problem. 

I would wait until you can afford to get both wheelset or go for a custom wheelset.  Go custom.

[viggen]

The old wheel dilema.  Checking the spec on the Shimano, the 23mm rim height is not aero.  I would go at least 30mm rim height at the minimum at the front and rear. It may look silly if you only have one aero wheel in the front vs the rear.  It will definitely work without problem. 

I would wait until you can afford to get both wheelset or go for a custom wheelset.  Go custom.

Yup not going with an aero wheel set per se just something better than my current ones that is supposedly heavy, slow and probably a drag in the wind.  The wheel will be used for everyday road training so durability is important.  Definitely don't want high maintenance "flying saucer" wheels at my current skill level.

[AB]

I have a pair of the Dura Ace wheels. They're very nice.
I upgraded to a pair of HED Ardennes SL.

The Dura Ace wheel set is light, durable and in 10k+ miles I only had to true them a few times very minimally. They're perfect training wheels.

[viggen]

I have a pair of the Dura Ace wheels. They're very nice.
I upgraded to a pair of HED Ardennes SL.

The Dura Ace wheel set is light, durable and in 10k+ miles I only had to true them a few times very minimally. They're perfect training wheels.

Thanks for the feedback on the Dura Ace.  If I weren't trying to limit funds spent on my bike, I'd most likely get a set of the 7850s.  Or, I can just get the front wheels now and get the rear one later.  As I am typing this, this rationale sounds dumb.  It is more coming from a self imposed montlhy spending budget and my other rationale that I might get 80% improvement of less rolling resistance and aero improvement by only buying the front wheel.  Don't know whether the rear wheel has diminishing returns? 

I did google HED Adrennes SL and found a comparison between the your current and former wheel sets: 

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=228401

[AB]

Wheel set upgrades are the best bang for your buck you can get. I highly recommend going for a nice set. But I don't know if I would go for two different wheels on a bike. Different wheels tend to feel different and ride differently. You might end up with some strange results.

The RBR thread is pretty much my experience too. I bought the HEDs not because they were lighter or more aero - they aren't much better in either case - but I like the way the C2 rim width rides. I also wanted to build a wheel set for a Powertap I had.

I hardly ever ride the DA wheels now.

[viggen]

Wheel set upgrades are the best bang for your buck you can get. I highly recommend going for a nice set. But I don't know if I would go for two different wheels on a bike. Different wheels tend to feel different and ride differently. You might end up with some strange results.

The RBR thread is pretty much my experience too. I bought the HEDs not because they were lighter or more aero - they aren't much better in either case - but I like the way the C2 rim width rides. I also wanted to build a wheel set for a Powertap I had.

I hardly ever ride the DA wheels now.

Thanks for your reply again.

Would you say your ride comfort level when riding on DA wheels was pretty smooth, but HED wheels are just more comfortable hence allow you to ride farther?  Just wondering because I don't feel any discomfort when riding on Shimano wheels so comfort wasn't high on my priorities.  Or, at least, I was not aware of the importance of a more comfortable wheel. 

I think I will go to a LBS that stocks HED either today or tomorrow and figure out whether HED is right for me and, if so, which one.  Definitely would like to find out that I can get away with the lower end model. 

[jackman]

Thanks for your reply again.

Would you say your ride comfort level when riding on DA wheels was pretty smooth, but HED wheels are just more comfortable hence allow you to ride farther?  Just wondering because I don't feel any discomfort when riding on Shimano wheels so comfort wasn't high on my priorities.  Or, at least, I was not aware of the importance of a more comfortable wheel. 

I think I will go to a LBS that stocks HED either today or tomorrow and figure out whether HED is right for me and, if so, which one.  Definitely would like to find out that I can get away with the lower end model.

I'd test out the wheels before you buy anything (if possible).   I'm a big fan of HED rims but your stock Shimano are good enough for training and you probably will not notice a big difference with the new rims (unless you ride some very steep hills).  I'd save up and get a pair of wheels when your current wheels start to break down. 

If you are concerned about ride comfort, you might want to just look at getting new tires.  Continental GP4000's will make a bigger difference on your ride than most people imagine.  Also, if you ride some rough roads, you might want to look at 25mm tires.  You can run lower pressure and they aren't much heavier than 23's. 

There is a wide range of bikes in my cycing group and a wider range of tires and wheels.  There are some sweet (and expensive) custom CF Serotta bikes and custom Lynskey titanium bikes, Pinerello, S-works and Colnago bikes with full DA, Record or Red groupsets and high-end CF wheels, and there are guys who ride modest bikes that are 10 years old or more. 

One of the fastest riders in the group is a guy in his 50's who rides an old aluminum Giant TCR (I think that 's the model) with an XT MTB rear deraillier, a triple crankset, stock low-end Shimano wheels, and generic tires.  His bike probably weighs around 20 lbs. and is probably worth less $$ than the bottle cages on most of the expensive bikes in the group. His chain has seen better days and it looks older than the bike, but he's a demon, especially on hills and he can usually be found at the front of the pack punishing the group by pushing the pace in his low-key, modest style.  There is another rider who rides a new Colnago with Zipp 404 tubulars (with expensive Italian tires) and full Campy Record.  The bike is very light (probably around 15 lbs), is outfitted with top of the line everything, and he consistently has trouble keeping up with the group. 

I'm not saying gear doesn't matter and I'm not saying it's not fun buying cool bike stuff but the first guy is way cooler (IMO).  His only focus is on bike fit and comfort.  He logs tons of miles and rides several tough rides like the Horribly Hilly 100 and several torture rides around the country.  He replaces things when the break but makes no attempt to make his bike lighter or more impressive looking.  I usually only see the bike at rest stops anyway because I'm usually at the back of the pack with the Colnago guy (nice looking bike)...

Cheers,

J

[viggen]

I'd test out the wheels before you buy anything (if possible).   I'm a big fan of HED rims but your stock Shimano are good enough for training and you probably will not notice a big difference with the new rims (unless you ride some very steep hills).  I'd save up and get a pair of wheels when your current wheels start to break down. 

I will find out whether the LBS can let me try out wheels.  I know the one I am going to have rental programs but don't know if they have it for specific wheels I would be interested in.  There are some pretty steep hills on my usual rides, but it's the head wind that bothers me most.  Maybe it's cause I live not too far from the ocean as well as the mountains.

I used to take pride in conquering very steep hills.  That was like 10 yrs ago tho, and I stopped biking for quite awhile.  In my new locale, there are very strong riders who pass me up like I was standing still.  I do think they are riding on money.  I don't let that get to me.  They are a mental target though.  Actually, during my last couple of rides, even a few moms beat me up some hills.

If you are concerned about ride comfort, you might want to just look at getting new tires.  Continental GP4000's will make a bigger difference on your ride than most people imagine.  Also, if you ride some rough roads, you might want to look at 25mm tires.  You can run lower pressure and they aren't much heavier than 23's. 

I am not particularly concerned about ride comfort actually.  I mean, my bike is pretty comfortable to me.  The Conti 4000s is actually the next tire I plan on getting after the Conti Ultra Sport that came with my bike wears out.  The Ultra Sport as well as the Shimano R500 wheel set also has a lot of bad reviews on RBR.  But, I like the Ultra Sport a lot.  Along with Conti tubes, I think I roll very well, the tubes hold air very well, and I haven't experienced a flat in over 500-600 miles.

One of the fastest riders in the group is a guy in his 50's who rides an old aluminum Giant TCR (I think that 's the model) with an XT MTB rear deraillier, a triple crankset, stock low-end Shimano wheels, and generic tires.  His bike probably weighs around 20 lbs. and is probably worth less $$ than the bottle cages on most of the expensive bikes in the group. His chain has seen better days and it looks older than the bike, but he's a demon, especially on hills and he can usually be found at the front of the pack punishing the group by pushing the pace in his low-key, modest style. 

My previous bike is a Giant OCR3, purchased in '01, which I think has similar if not same frame as TCR but has lower end Sora components.  Compared to my newer Fuji Team, purchased last year, which has full carbon frame, the Giant is rock hard and heavy.  I was quite happy with the OCR until I took my wife to shop for her new bike.  That's when I found technology changed quite a bit and ended up with a new "carbon" bike for myself.  I know what you're talking about that it's the biker not the bike.  Heck, on one ride on PCH, a very fit rider on a beach cruiser passed me.

I'm not saying gear doesn't matter and I'm not saying it's not fun buying cool bike stuff but the first guy is way cooler (IMO).  His only focus is on bike fit and comfort.  He logs tons of miles and rides several tough rides like the Horribly Hilly 100 and several torture rides around the country.  He replaces things when the break but makes no attempt to make his bike lighter or more impressive looking.  I usually only see the bike at rest stops anyway because I'm usually at the back of the pack with the Colnago guy (nice looking bike)...

I have to admit the reason why I am here in this forum asking for advice now is most partially because of all the bad reviews I've read about my bike parts and also because I think my body might need a little help from technology to make accomplishing my riding goal a bit easier and faster.  Perhaps I am cheating a bit.  Nevertheless, perhaps new wheels can make my rides more fun and productive?  I will check them out soon then decide.  Thanks J. 

Ed

[AB]

Thanks for your reply again.

Would you say your ride comfort level when riding on DA wheels was pretty smooth, but HED wheels are just more comfortable hence allow you to ride farther?  Just wondering because I don't feel any discomfort when riding on Shimano wheels so comfort wasn't high on my priorities.  Or, at least, I was not aware of the importance of a more comfortable wheel. 

I think I will go to a LBS that stocks HED either today or tomorrow and figure out whether HED is right for me and, if so, which one.  Definitely would like to find out that I can get away with the lower end model.

Comfort is about the same for both sets. The HED Ardennes wheels have what they call their C2 rim which is wider (23mm) than you'll find on most road wheels. The wider rim allows the tire to have a wider contact patch - more like a tubular in that respect. It really does make a difference in handling.

I also feel comfortable riding a lower psi (95) with the HEDs. It's a bit softer riding than the DAs with 110 or so. We have a lot of chip seal roads here and a fatter tire or lower pressure smooths out the buzz from the crappy road surface. The HED C2 makes the lower psi more reasonable. Running the DAs at 95 feels squirrely 

I am sure you can find a shop that will let you demo a pair of new wheels. You 'll get a taste of what a nicer set of wheels offers and you can decide from there. I think you'll be impressed.

[jackman]

Comfort is about the same for both sets. The HED Ardennes wheels have what they call their C2 rim which is wider (23mm) than you'll find on most road wheels. The wider rim allows the tire to have a wider contact patch - more like a tubular in that respect. It really does make a difference in handling.

I also feel comfortable riding a lower psi (95) with the HEDs. It's a bit softer riding than the DAs with 110 or so. We have a lot of chip seal roads here and a fatter tire or lower pressure smooths out the buzz from the crappy road surface. The HED C2 makes the lower psi more reasonable. Running the DAs at 95 feels squirrely 

I am sure you can find a shop that will let you demo a pair of new wheels. You 'll get a taste of what a nicer set of wheels offers and you can decide from there. I think you'll be impressed.

Those HED's sure look cool.  My friend has a Powertap set he built (with Sapim spokes) and he loves them.  I'm happy because he's selling me his old PT set!

[viggen]

Well, I did visit a store that claimed to carry HED on their website.  But, turns out the store is still "working out the details."  Instead, they tried to push Reynolds and Mavic pretty hard.  The sales guy did immediately point out the hubs on my R500 are very heavy.

After much contemplation, I am getting for the Shimano 6700 from Chain Reaction Cycles.  It's cheap and should get me most of what the higher end wheels offer. 

[AB]

Those HED's sure look cool.  My friend has a Powertap set he built (with Sapim spokes) and he loves them.  I'm happy because he's selling me his old PT set!

I love the PT. I have a Garmin Edge 500 to go with it. The combo is great. I would recommend you try the WKO+ software too. Too much info at first but after a while it all makes sense and then you're off to the races!

[AB]

Well, I did visit a store that claimed to carry HED on their website.  But, turns out the store is still "working out the details."  Instead, they tried to push Reynolds and Mavic pretty hard.  The sales guy did immediately point out the hubs on my R500 are very heavy.

After much contemplation, I am getting for the Shimano 6700 from Chain Reaction Cycles.  It's cheap and should get me most of what the higher end wheels offer.

I haven't tried the 6700 but they look to be very close to the DA wheels. I'm sure they'll be great. Still, you should find a shop that will let you demo a set of silly wheels like Zipp 404 or the HEDs. Just for grins.

You can usually find wheel demos at cycling events too.