[FredT300B]

A recent post on the Virtue Audio circle reminded me that the B&O ICE Power modules have become very popular, and that they are sold under several brand names for widely varying prices. The most popular module appears to be the 250W / 8 ohms version whose price in a monoblock pair varies from a low of $1,580/pr (D-Sonic) to a high of $10,500/pr (Jeff Rowland). That's quite a large price difference, and being skeptical of audio equipment manufacturers' marketing hype I was wondering what the actual differences are, so I did some research.

Audioholics published an article that's critical of the price differences between different brands, but it appears to me this article ignores the importance of differences in input circuitry and power supply implementation. Here's the link to the article:
http://www.audioholics.com/education/amplifier-technology/clone-amplifiers

Differences between manufacturers' implementation of ICE Power technology seems to take at least three directions:

1) Use of the ICE Power "ASP" version of the board which includes an onboard power supply versus use of the "A" version which requires a separate (and more expensive) power supply,

2) Modifications to the input circuit, which usually involves the addition of an input buffer and possibly the elimination of parts of the module's circuit such as an input coupling capacitor, and

3) using nice looking and expensive peripheral parts, including the case, internal wiring, and input & speaker connectors.

A good example of the first difference is found in the $1,580/pr D-Sonic versus the $2,500/pr H2O Audio monoblocks. I have no idea whether the H2O's performance is worth the additonal $920, but there's a clear difference in the cost-to-manufacture of these two approaches, with the H2O incorporating a large toroidal transformer and capacitors in the power supply. Scroll down in the links below for internal photos, and notice the H2O has a large toroidal transformer and power supply caps:
http://www.d-sonic.net/photos.html
http://www.iceh2oaudio.com/index_htm.html

The second difference, mods to the input circuit, is more common. Most  brands incorporate some type of buffer, which each claims to be superior to all the others. For example, Wyred 4 Sound uses as solid state buffer, while Virtue Audio uses a Dodd Audio tube buffer. I would expect the Dodd tube buffer, purpose-designed to complement the sound characteristics of an ICE Power module, to be a very effective upgrade, but I haven't heard this product so I can't comment on its sound.

The third difference seems to be where most of the high-value versus high-visual-appeal difference resides, but higher quality peripheral parts usually are also included in the better looking external package. For example, the D-Sonic uses the ASP module in a nice looking but basic case, while the Jeff Rowland uses the same ASP module in a case that's manufactured from a solid aluminum ingot. The Rowland also incorporates a solid state input buffer and higher quality connectors.
http://www.jeffrowland.com/M201-detail.htm

I'm interested in all non-cynical responses to this post, but I'm especially interested in comments from people who have auditioned different ICE Power amps used in the same system.

(In the interest of full disclosure, I'm a friend of Dennis Deacon, owner of D-Sonic Audio, and I own his 1000S stereo amplifier)

[playntheblues]

Thank you for all of your work, very nice thread hope to see more comments.

[Barry_NJ]

Very nice post! I thought I'd add a couple of other ICE Mfr links I'd come across in my snooping around the net...

http://www.analogresearch-technology.net/VELLUTO.html

http://www.seymourav.com/amps.asp

I'm sure there are likely others, and it would be great if folks would share what they've come across.

[JohnR]

http://www.analogresearch-technology.net/VELLUTO.html

PAT from ART posts here a fair bit... or used to, not sure any more

[bummrush]

 i had in my system Bel Canto ,and also Red Dragon,,didnt notice any difference between them at all.

[Dan Banquer]

For any user contemplating using the ICE amps I would recommend reviewing the frequency response vs. impedance plots and the frequency response vs. current plots provided in the ICE amp data sheet, and compare to just about any standard linear amplifier.
IMHO the ICE amp would make a decent subwoofer amp.
d.b.

[satfrat]

I have heard the D-Sonic Magnum-5 channel amp of Bill@LakeGeorge and I have yet to leave his place not stunned by the clarity from his Salk HT-3 system, simply an excellent increbibly clear sound which is by far better than some of his other amps he's had. He'd have to fill in the blanks on that one. With the type of clean wattage Bill's D-Sonic is supplying (525 watts for the front 3), it's a very impressive amp to consider demo'ing IMHO.
 
Cheers,
Robin

[bummrush]

IMHO the ICE amp would make a decent subwoofer amp
                        from above   YEP.

[Barry_NJ]

For any user contemplating using the ICE amps I would recommend reviewing the frequency response vs. impedance plots and the frequency response vs. current plots provided in the ICE amp data sheet, and compare to just about any standard linear amplifier.
IMHO the ICE amp would make a decent subwoofer amp.
d.b.

IMHO the ICE amp would make a decent subwoofer amp
                        from above   YEP.

So I guess you guys don't really like 'em(?)

[JDUBS]

For any user contemplating using the ICE amps I would recommend reviewing the frequency response vs. impedance plots and the frequency response vs. current plots provided in the ICE amp data sheet, and compare to just about any standard linear amplifier.
IMHO the ICE amp would make a decent subwoofer amp.
d.b.

Did you look at the plots before or after listenning to the various ICE iterations? 

Jim

[Barry_NJ]

I wish this was getting more responses, as it's a topic that really interests me...

I heard a Wyred-4-Sound integrated a week ago, and the results were nice, but it was in an unfamiliar environment on an unfamiliar system. There were also no other ICE amps, or even other Class-D amps, for comparison.

[Bill@LakeGeorge]

I wish this was getting more responses, as it's a topic that really interests me...

I heard a Wyred-4-Sound integrated a week ago, and the results were nice, but it was in an unfamiliar environment on an unfamiliar system. There were also no other ICE amps, or even other Class-D amps, for comparison.

As satfrat stated I have a D-Sonic 5 channel amp 525watts front 3 channels and 250 rear.  Before it I had a Parasound A51 and a Emotiva something.  Nothing could hold a candle to the D-Sonic, highly recommended.

[Barry_NJ]

As satfrat stated I have a D-Sonic 5 channel amp 525watts front 3 channels and 250 rear.  Before it I had a Parasound A51 and a Emotiva something.  Nothing could hold a candle to the D-Sonic, highly recommended.

Thanks, it's nice to hear that one of the less expensive offerings has good sound quality.

[satfrat]

Thanks, it's nice to hear that one of the less expensive offerings has good sound quality.

It's waaaay better than just good IMHO Barry. Them Salk HT-3's of Bill's blow me away everytime I listen to them, especially since he got a UberBuss to supplement his balanced power conditioner. Clean power to them Ice amps makes all the difference in the world IMHO. 
 
Cheers,
Robin

[shep]

Either you love them or you think they are only good for subwoofers. Personally I'm in the first camp. I have a one-off integrated, using the smallest of the ICE modules (2X75 watts) totally kitted out by Wyred. I've been around the block with audio for a long time and this is the best amp I've ever owned. It is sweet, powerfull, even-handed, revealing etc. etc. I have a tube loving friend who can'nt believe what he hears every time he hears it. This doesn't mean squat of course, just my very biased opinion. This amp will never leave my system and if it dies I will get it fixed! Just for the record; ICE amps like very good cables and are very finicky about what's going into them.  Garbage in, garbage out, but that's hardly a revolutionary statement 

[FredT300B]

For any user contemplating using the ICE amps I would recommend reviewing the frequency response vs. impedance plots and the frequency response vs. current plots provided in the ICE amp data sheet, and compare to just about any standard linear amplifier.
IMHO the ICE amp would make a decent subwoofer amp.
d.b.

Dan, are you referring to the curves on page nine of the 500ASP module data sheet? Can you be more specific about what we should look for?
http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com/files/solutions/icepower500aspdata.pdf

[Sonny]

I have Ric Schultz EVS 100 and 500 mono blocks and use them in a bi-amp configuration and couldn't be happier!  That and they are "green" as well.  Only thing is one of my 100M blew out yesterday, so that's a bumper, but well, it can be fixed if Ric and I can find a ICEPOWER@200ASC module.

Anyways, my 2 cents!

T

[timind]

Let's see, I have owned the following class D amps: Bel Canto eVo2i (integrated), Bel Canto S300, Bel Canto S500, PS Audio Trio A100, PS Audio C100 (full Cullen modded integrated). Oh yeah, I also had a single Bel Canto 300M.
I thought the eVo2i (tripath) was an outstanding integrated amp. Seemed to do everything right. I sold it when I got a good deal on a Bel Canto Pre3.
As for the others, they all employ the 200ASC ICE modules except for the BC S500.
From my experience, the S500 was the most neutral. It really seemed to have no character at all, just passed the music through. The PS Audio and Bel Canto S300 were not identical sounding at all. I thought the PS Audio was better. Seemed to present a fuller sound, more involving. Also, for a month or so I used two of the PS Audio amps in a vertical biamp configuration. At first I thought it was killer, but when I pulled one of the amps out and ran with just one I wasn't disappointed.
I still have the Pre3 (currently listed on Audiogon) but no longer have any of the ICE amps. If I were considering going back I'd get a Trio A100. A steal for the $$.

[Sonny]

Regarding the EVS from Ric Schultz, these are modded modules, don't know what he does to them, but they sound amazing and I love them!  Too bad he no-longer makes them.  I use the 100 for my tweeter/midrange and the 500 on the woofers, love them! 

Tuan

[Sonny]

I wish this was getting more responses, as it's a topic that really interests me...

I heard a Wyred-4-Sound integrated a week ago, and the results were nice, but it was in an unfamiliar environment on an unfamiliar system. There were also no other ICE amps, or even other Class-D amps, for comparison.

I can only say that Ric's amps, the EVS, are amazing, the most open and transparent amps I've had in my system!  That's compared to tube and solid state amps!  I remember when I wanted to try something different and got some SS amps, man, right away, I could tell I was missing lots! 

I've heard other digital amps as well, like the DAC Cherry Jr., these are great amps too!  I think it's important to note the synergy with other components and one's preference...  ICE amps, IMHO, do not have the lushness of Tube or some SS amps!